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Congrats Caldari Militia
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X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#101 - 2012-06-28 23:24:03 UTC
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
So how is it we are managing to cope with the hordes of Minmatr farmers, some of who happen to be excellent PvP players as well?
Perhaps because there are fewer of them, and you can have some fun because more of them stay and fight?


Shadow Adanza
Gold Crest Salvage
#102 - 2012-06-28 23:24:27 UTC
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
Shadow Adanza wrote:
lol the Caldari still haven't gotten it in their heads that the Gallente don't care about system occupancy?
They must teach classes on missing the obvious.


'Cause you dont care gallente is losing doesn't mean you are not.

The way the numbers game works out, it'd be a disgrace if the Caldari weren't "winning" when it comes to system status.
But I've never associated participating in pve activities with winning or losing.
You don't win a boxing match by taking the ropes off the ring and taking the ring apart.
You fight to win. I've made no qualms about not liking the system that's in place, even when the Gallente were "winning".
I don't like the emphasis on pve.

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#103 - 2012-06-28 23:25:19 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dosnix
Deen Wispa wrote:
The people who don't care about system occupancy are very shortsighted on the long term effects. It's all about WZ control. If you don't control the Warzone, then you can't get to various tiers... preferably Tier 3 or 4, if we're lucky.

Not having access to those tiers means alot of pilots (especially the new blood) will simply bail and leave militia and/or FW because they see no hope. Why offensive plex if you can't get to higher Tiers?. So lack of new blood means no fleets. No fleets means no pew.

Alot of the people who don't care tend to be vets who are either rich (make isk via other sources) or too apathetic to care about the next generation of militia pilots. Very sad...


Ahh, Finally someoen who gets it. I have to say opponents like you, regardless of KB stats ( no insult inteneded as i havent even checked your KBs, you may have 10,000 kills for all i know ) concern me much more than *snip* in Qcats and SOTF, as guys like you are a real threat to long term success, they aren't..

Some of us are fighting a war, others are just here for the Kms and lulz and LP rewards.Those in the second group arent going to be able to stop Caldari.

Bad Content detected (Personal attack, pigs are animals not EvE player)
Fixed it for you ;-)

Kind Regards IDS Dosnix
Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation
#104 - 2012-06-29 00:05:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Lock out
Tbh anyone with half a brain has two sets of missioning alts , one for farming caldari amarr, the other for farming gallente minmatar. Win win tbh, worst case scenario was a balance across both fronts that would keep **** at tier 2 or below for all 4 factions. Other than that, grats on winning at Cormorants Online.

The only victim is poor Loren who made a **** ton of Gallente LP from killing Caldari bears, but I bet all the shiny loot softens the blow a bit :)
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#105 - 2012-06-29 02:55:40 UTC
Congrats caldari.

But tier 4 is not a goal I would go for. I don't cash out until tier 5. (Not that i have any caldari lp to cash out anyway. But I do have allot of amarr lp)

Caldari seems to have 150k vp last week (2xs as much as any other militia) but only 1300 kills. amarr has 1800 kills and minmatar about 2700 kills.

Is this not evidence that there still is a pretty wide divide between plexing and pvp?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#106 - 2012-06-29 07:13:59 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Congrats caldari.

But tier 4 is not a goal I would go for. I don't cash out until tier 5. (Not that i have any caldari lp to cash out anyway. But I do have allot of amarr lp)

Caldari seems to have 150k vp last week (2xs as much as any other militia) but only 1300 kills. amarr has 1800 kills and minmatar about 2700 kills.

Is this not evidence that there still is a pretty wide divide between plexing and pvp?



No it's just evidence in the difference of our war zones.. Our war zone is more spread out than yours.. You guys are more like Red vs Blue with a smaller scale arena type area that most of your PVP happens in. Meanwhile our space has much more area to roam and as such fights tend to happen all over and everyone isn't shoehorned into the same few systems.
Gallactica
Shadows Of The Federation
#107 - 2012-06-29 09:06:16 UTC
Trolling hat aside.

Thing is, no-one can ever "win" Faction Warfare - Depending on which side of the fence your on with either plexxing and system capture focuessed, pure PVP focussed or a mixture of both its all dependant on what you / your corp / your alliance want to get out of it in terms of your own goals and enjoyment.

Pervs / Damar and friends "won" faction warfare on the system capture front a long time ago yet here we the Gallente still are (this is not meant as a troll). So how can you actually win? answer is you cant.

Personally its nice to see those letters in the top corner of the screen saying Gallente but does it really matter unless it causes me/us a slight problem in being locked out of a statiion? not really.

When we saw all those systems vulnerable around the Nisuwa area we were basically thinking shall we try and do something about it? Nah, lets let them get flipped then we can get some easy lp afterwards, like i said it doesnt really matter.

Wave e-peen and shout out congrats when things go your way by all means, We do it for sure (we all do it, sometimes to troll, sometimes for a bit of fun and sometimes for when you genuinly feel you achieve something) and i think its this kind of thing and the trolling that goes with it from both sides that keeps things fun and interesting Smile

Basically whatever floats your boat and do what you feel is fun for you, but always expect trolling from the guys that prefer other ways of what they deem as fun.

End of the day as long as all sides have stuff to shoot at and stuff to keep them entertained in whatever guise then alls good.
Gallactica
Shadows Of The Federation
#108 - 2012-06-29 09:21:03 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dosnix
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
Deen Wispa wrote:
The people who don't care about system occupancy are very shortsighted on the long term effects. It's all about WZ control. If you don't control the Warzone, then you can't get to various tiers... preferably Tier 3 or 4, if we're lucky.

Not having access to those tiers means alot of pilots (especially the new blood) will simply bail and leave militia and/or FW because they see no hope. Why offensive plex if you can't get to higher Tiers?. So lack of new blood means no fleets. No fleets means no pew.

Alot of the people who don't care tend to be vets who are either rich (make isk via other sources) or too apathetic to care about the next generation of militia pilots. Very sad...


Ahh, Finally someoen who gets it. I have to say opponents like you, regardless of KB stats ( no insult inteneded as i havent even checked your KBs, you may have 10,000 kills for all i know ) concern me much more than the *snip* in Qcats and SOTF, as guys like you are a real threat to long term success, they aren't..

Some of us are fighting a war, others are just here for the Kms and lulz and LP rewards.Those in the second group arent going to be able to stop Caldari.



*snip* SoTF and Qcats are one of the main reasons why you the Caldari still have a "FW Game" to play - We have been here since pretty much day 1 and been invovled with more or less every aspect of the evolving front of Gallente versus Caldari, we did something about Gallente getting curbstomped in the early days and turned us into a much more organised better force than we ever were in the past.

Do we sometimes come across as arrogant elitist pricks? yes we do (well SoTF does!) we play the game for what we consider fun for us and really dont give a rats ass if you agree with it or not tbh.

I´ll fixed the bad content for you ;)
Hope you enjoy it!
Kind Regards
ISD Dosnix
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#109 - 2012-06-29 12:08:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanaka Sekigahara
Gallactica wrote:
Trolling hat aside.

Thing is, no-one can ever "win" Faction Warfare - Depending on which side of the fence your on with either plexxing and system capture focuessed, pure PVP focussed or a mixture of both its all dependant on what you / your corp / your alliance want to get out of it in terms of your own goals and enjoyment.

Pervs / Damar and friends "won" faction warfare on the system capture front a long time ago yet here we the Gallente still are (this is not meant as a troll). So how can you actually win? answer is you cant.

Personally its nice to see those letters in the top corner of the screen saying Gallente but does it really matter unless it causes me/us a slight problem in being locked out of a statiion? not really.

When we saw all those systems vulnerable around the Nisuwa area we were basically thinking shall we try and do something about it? Nah, lets let them get flipped then we can get some easy lp afterwards, like i said it doesnt really matter.

Wave e-peen and shout out congrats when things go your way by all means, We do it for sure (we all do it, sometimes to troll, sometimes for a bit of fun and sometimes for when you genuinly feel you achieve something) and i think its this kind of thing and the trolling that goes with it from both sides that keeps things fun and interesting Smile

Basically whatever floats your boat and do what you feel is fun for you, but always expect trolling from the guys that prefer other ways of what they deem as fun.

End of the day as long as all sides have stuff to shoot at and stuff to keep them entertained in whatever guise then alls good.


Well,......... yeah

I come on the forums to bang my sword against my shield, belittle my enemies, question their manhood and their paternity and recite my brave and valorous deeds and those of my comrades so as to rob my enemy of his fighting spirit before battle.
That's why I have an Avatar that looks like Ghenghis Khan.If you ask I'll swear my tallywhacker is 2 inches longer than yours as well.

However.....

Inasmuch as EvE is a good game, it models certain aspects of warfare well. The combat itself is a joke and totally unrealistic., but, things that are central to any real engaement, like Morale, Initiative, Shock, Comms, Command and control, span of control, Tempo, Intelligence, Rallying, routing, Massing, recon, diplomacy and logistics are all modeled very well and have an appropriate weight to them vis-a-vis real world action .That being said, the will to fight is central to any war, and winning or losing any war. In that aspect, the war CAN be won, as our enemies will to fight CAN be broken. They may rally 6 months later when game mechanics change or a new crop of players try it out, but wallets can be emptied if a high enough pace of operations is maintained, one side can create enough friction for the other side to the point they no longer see any benefit in continuing operations in theater.That is our goal.That is acheivable. The war wont end, but one side can be pummelled down for an extended length of time where the current participants lose their will to engage in any meaningful way.
eddie valvetino
Bi-Polar Bears
#110 - 2012-06-29 12:15:48 UTC
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
Gallactica wrote:
Trolling hat aside.

Thing is, no-one can ever "win" Faction Warfare - Depending on which side of the fence your on with either plexxing and system capture focuessed, pure PVP focussed or a mixture of both its all dependant on what you / your corp / your alliance want to get out of it in terms of your own goals and enjoyment.

Pervs / Damar and friends "won" faction warfare on the system capture front a long time ago yet here we the Gallente still are (this is not meant as a troll). So how can you actually win? answer is you cant.

Personally its nice to see those letters in the top corner of the screen saying Gallente but does it really matter unless it causes me/us a slight problem in being locked out of a statiion? not really.

When we saw all those systems vulnerable around the Nisuwa area we were basically thinking shall we try and do something about it? Nah, lets let them get flipped then we can get some easy lp afterwards, like i said it doesnt really matter.

Wave e-peen and shout out congrats when things go your way by all means, We do it for sure (we all do it, sometimes to troll, sometimes for a bit of fun and sometimes for when you genuinly feel you achieve something) and i think its this kind of thing and the trolling that goes with it from both sides that keeps things fun and interesting Smile

Basically whatever floats your boat and do what you feel is fun for you, but always expect trolling from the guys that prefer other ways of what they deem as fun.

End of the day as long as all sides have stuff to shoot at and stuff to keep them entertained in whatever guise then alls good.


Well,......... yeah

I come on the forums to bang my sword against my shield, belittle my enemies, question their manhood and their paternity and recite my brave and valorous deeds and those of my comrades so as to rob my enemy of his fighting spirit before battle.
That's why I have an Avatar that looks like Ghenghis Khan.If you ask I'll swear my tallywhacker is 2 inches longer than yours as well.

However.....

Inasmuch as EvE is a good game, it models certain aspects of warfare well. The combat itself is a joke and totally unrealistic., but, things that are central to any real engaement, like Morale, Initiative, Shock, Comms, Command and control, span of control, Tempo, Intelligence, Rallying, routing, Massing, recon, diplomacy and logistics are all modeled very well and have an appropriate weight to them vis-a-vis real world action .That being said, the will to fight is central to any war, and winning or losing any war. In that aspect, the war CAN be won, as our enemies will to fight CAN be broken. They may rally 6 months later when game mechanics change or a new crop of players try it out, but wallets can be emptied if a high enough pace of operations is maintained, one side can create enough friction for the other side to the point they no longer see any benefit in continuing operations in theater.That is our goal.That is acheivable. The war wont end, but one side can be pummelled down for an extended length of time where the current participants lose their will to engage in any meaningful way.


While i agree with loads of the things you said with rergards fighting wars in eve, i have to say an enemy that can regroup and rally at any point in the furture is not a beat one... ego... you can not win FW
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#111 - 2012-06-29 13:20:15 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Congrats caldari.

But tier 4 is not a goal I would go for. I don't cash out until tier 5. (Not that i have any caldari lp to cash out anyway. But I do have allot of amarr lp)

Caldari seems to have 150k vp last week (2xs as much as any other militia) but only 1300 kills. amarr has 1800 kills and minmatar about 2700 kills.

Is this not evidence that there still is a pretty wide divide between plexing and pvp?



No it's just evidence in the difference of our war zones.. Our war zone is more spread out than yours.. You guys are more like Red vs Blue with a smaller scale arena type area that most of your PVP happens in. Meanwhile our space has much more area to roam and as such fights tend to happen all over and everyone isn't shoehorned into the same few systems.



Some of what you say is true.

But the fact is amarr could spread out and plex the minmatar back systems. Its not that we are "shoe horned" in not at all. We can put plexing ships in any nonfw system we want (even in minmatar high sec). Basically we can put plexing ships adjacent to every cluster of systems the minmatar hold and plex them.

Why don't we? Well its pretty much going to be a pve activity. We will have allot lot less pvp if we did that. So again its a matter of do you want to fight for occupancy or do you want to pvp. Because if you go for the plexing option you will get allot less pvp.

Again I think this continues to be the number one problem that ccp needs to address. Making Plexing a pvp activity.

If it were a pvp activity the caldaris accomplishments would be much more praiseworthy. Right now what you accomplished shows organization and commitment. Congrats on that. But it doesn't show anything about pvp combat.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#112 - 2012-06-29 13:34:55 UTC
Gallactica wrote:
....
Pervs / Damar and friends "won" faction warfare on the system capture front a long time ago yet here we the Gallente still are (this is not meant as a troll). So how can you actually win? answer is you cant....



This is pretty much true. When fighting people who are immortal its hard win. Plus we can't "surrender."

I think winning in this is a matter of accomplishing goals - as is the case with real wars. Perhaps those goals are to take all of the space or get to tier 5. Or preventing your enemie from doing those things.

The north vietnamese won the war against the US even though they didn't take over all 50 states, kill every american soldier and force the US to sign a surrender. They accomplished the goals they set out to accomplish and the US did not accomplish its goals.

In eve it is often hard to get people in the same militia to even agree on what the goals are let alone accomplish them.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#113 - 2012-06-29 20:32:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanaka Sekigahara
eddie valvetino wrote:
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
Gallactica wrote:
Trolling hat aside.

Thing is, no-one can ever "win" Faction Warfare - Depending on which side of the fence your on with either plexxing and system capture focuessed, pure PVP focussed or a mixture of both its all dependant on what you / your corp / your alliance want to get out of it in terms of your own goals and enjoyment.

Pervs / Damar and friends "won" faction warfare on the system capture front a long time ago yet here we the Gallente still are (this is not meant as a troll). So how can you actually win? answer is you cant.

Personally its nice to see those letters in the top corner of the screen saying Gallente but does it really matter unless it causes me/us a slight problem in being locked out of a statiion? not really.

When we saw all those systems vulnerable around the Nisuwa area we were basically thinking shall we try and do something about it? Nah, lets let them get flipped then we can get some easy lp afterwards, like i said it doesnt really matter.

Wave e-peen and shout out congrats when things go your way by all means, We do it for sure (we all do it, sometimes to troll, sometimes for a bit of fun and sometimes for when you genuinly feel you achieve something) and i think its this kind of thing and the trolling that goes with it from both sides that keeps things fun and interesting Smile

Basically whatever floats your boat and do what you feel is fun for you, but always expect trolling from the guys that prefer other ways of what they deem as fun.

End of the day as long as all sides have stuff to shoot at and stuff to keep them entertained in whatever guise then alls good.


Well,......... yeah

I come on the forums to bang my sword against my shield, belittle my enemies, question their manhood and their paternity and recite my brave and valorous deeds and those of my comrades so as to rob my enemy of his fighting spirit before battle.
That's why I have an Avatar that looks like Ghenghis Khan.If you ask I'll swear my tallywhacker is 2 inches longer than yours as well.

However.....

Inasmuch as EvE is a good game, it models certain aspects of warfare well. The combat itself is a joke and totally unrealistic., but, things that are central to any real engaement, like Morale, Initiative, Shock, Comms, Command and control, span of control, Tempo, Intelligence, Rallying, routing, Massing, recon, diplomacy and logistics are all modeled very well and have an appropriate weight to them vis-a-vis real world action .That being said, the will to fight is central to any war, and winning or losing any war. In that aspect, the war CAN be won, as our enemies will to fight CAN be broken. They may rally 6 months later when game mechanics change or a new crop of players try it out, but wallets can be emptied if a high enough pace of operations is maintained, one side can create enough friction for the other side to the point they no longer see any benefit in continuing operations in theater.That is our goal.That is acheivable. The war wont end, but one side can be pummelled down for an extended length of time where the current participants lose their will to engage in any meaningful way.


While i agree with loads of the things you said with rergards fighting wars in eve, i have to say an enemy that can regroup and rally at any point in the furture is not a beat one... ego... you can not win FW
You play your game, I'll play mine.

Their will to fight can absolutely be broken. This is the metric by which I measure victoroy.If it's good enough for Clausewitz, it's good enough for me.

If it takes them so long to regroup that months pass without the gals holding a single system to the point that CCP feels compelled to recognize the anomaly by awarding me another medal, that works for me.
I want the Knights Cross of the Distiguished Blade with Oak leaf cluster.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#114 - 2012-06-29 21:07:05 UTC
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
eddie valvetino wrote:
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
Gallactica wrote:
Trolling hat aside.

Thing is, no-one can ever "win" Faction Warfare - Depending on which side of the fence your on with either plexxing and system capture focuessed, pure PVP focussed or a mixture of both its all dependant on what you / your corp / your alliance want to get out of it in terms of your own goals and enjoyment.

Pervs / Damar and friends "won" faction warfare on the system capture front a long time ago yet here we the Gallente still are (this is not meant as a troll). So how can you actually win? answer is you cant.

Personally its nice to see those letters in the top corner of the screen saying Gallente but does it really matter unless it causes me/us a slight problem in being locked out of a statiion? not really.

When we saw all those systems vulnerable around the Nisuwa area we were basically thinking shall we try and do something about it? Nah, lets let them get flipped then we can get some easy lp afterwards, like i said it doesnt really matter.

Wave e-peen and shout out congrats when things go your way by all means, We do it for sure (we all do it, sometimes to troll, sometimes for a bit of fun and sometimes for when you genuinly feel you achieve something) and i think its this kind of thing and the trolling that goes with it from both sides that keeps things fun and interesting Smile

Basically whatever floats your boat and do what you feel is fun for you, but always expect trolling from the guys that prefer other ways of what they deem as fun.

End of the day as long as all sides have stuff to shoot at and stuff to keep them entertained in whatever guise then alls good.


Well,......... yeah

I come on the forums to bang my sword against my shield, belittle my enemies, question their manhood and their paternity and recite my brave and valorous deeds and those of my comrades so as to rob my enemy of his fighting spirit before battle.
That's why I have an Avatar that looks like Ghenghis Khan.If you ask I'll swear my tallywhacker is 2 inches longer than yours as well.

However.....

Inasmuch as EvE is a good game, it models certain aspects of warfare well. The combat itself is a joke and totally unrealistic., but, things that are central to any real engaement, like Morale, Initiative, Shock, Comms, Command and control, span of control, Tempo, Intelligence, Rallying, routing, Massing, recon, diplomacy and logistics are all modeled very well and have an appropriate weight to them vis-a-vis real world action .That being said, the will to fight is central to any war, and winning or losing any war. In that aspect, the war CAN be won, as our enemies will to fight CAN be broken. They may rally 6 months later when game mechanics change or a new crop of players try it out, but wallets can be emptied if a high enough pace of operations is maintained, one side can create enough friction for the other side to the point they no longer see any benefit in continuing operations in theater.That is our goal.That is acheivable. The war wont end, but one side can be pummelled down for an extended length of time where the current participants lose their will to engage in any meaningful way.


While i agree with loads of the things you said with rergards fighting wars in eve, i have to say an enemy that can regroup and rally at any point in the furture is not a beat one... ego... you can not win FW
You play your game, I'll play mine.

Their will to fight can absolutely be broken. This is the metric by which I measure victoroy.If it's good enough for Clausewitz, it's good enough for me.

If it takes them so long to regroup that months pass without the gals holding a single system to the point that CCP feels compelled to recognize the anomaly by awarding me another medal, that works for me.
I want the Knights Cross of the Distiguished Blade with Oak leaf cluster.


Im sure they are minting the 'Meritus PvE Service Medals' as we speak. lol.

As far as PvP goes, i believe that personally ive done significantly better than you Tenaka, on every metric. Odd how success in PvP doesnt translate into success in the occupancy war isnt it?
Peteris G
Ophidia in herba
#115 - 2012-06-29 22:02:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Peteris G
Not plan to troll, just add some points that some people seems does not see.

PvP is a bit more than shooting somebody in face. PvP is achieving Your goal while interacting with other players. So that leads to discovery couple simple (yet probably not obvious) truths:
1) if You achieve Your goal then its completely unimportant does Your "opponent" achieved his goal. So everybody might be winner. And also otherwise everybody might be looser if not achieved their goals.
2) Example about goals - trader who managed to get his cargo through pirates camp won because he achieved his, while pirates lost because they did not got kill (request from trader to kill pirates is obvious and total idiocy).
3) So me orbiting button do PvP because - I am interacting with opposite militia (by making system vulnerable which will force to leave it) and they tries to interact with me (and they get upset when are unsuccessful at it) :) (yes, even if my ship has no any single gun on it and I am orbiting butons I still do PvP)

P.S. and about some people being good at "shootin in da face"... Over history there was many people who were good at shooting (hitting) others in face yet they lost wars... :)
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#116 - 2012-06-29 22:17:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Peteris G wrote:
Not plan to troll, just add some points that some people seems does not see.

PvP is a bit more than shooting somebody in face. PvP is achieving Your goal while interacting with other players. So that leads to discovery couple simple (yet probably not obvious) truths:
1) if You achieve Your goal then its completely unimportant does Your "opponent" achieved his goal. So everybody might be winner. And also otherwise everybody might be looser if not achieved their goals.
2) Example about goals - trader who managed to get his cargo through pirates camp won because he achieved his, while pirates lost because they did not got kill (request from trader to kill pirates is obvious and total idiocy).
3) So me orbiting button do PvP because - I am interacting with opposite militia (by making system vulnerable which will force to leave it) and they tries to interact with me (and they get upset when are unsuccessful at it) :) (yes, even if my ship has no any single gun on it and I am orbiting butons I still do PvP)

P.S. and about some people being good at "shootin in da face"... Over history there was many people who were good at shooting (hitting) others in face yet they lost wars... :)


http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13687782

In EVE, thats what we call a PvE fit. No mistake was made in that description. What you do Mr. G, is constant farming, which in this game comes clearly under the category of PvE.

The fact that your PvE / isk farming effects anyone else at all is imo, a major problem.

Militia should not be won or lost like dull sec. It should be a hub of decent PvP. Crippling one side or the other will simply result in the undesirable conclusion of no one joining the enemy. Ideally, regardless of what anyone else does in militia it should be possible for a small corp or even an individual to support himself and do well regardless of how much PvE the rest of his faction performs (or doesnt). Now im sure there are some bitter extreme roleplayers (naming no names) that would love to log on and not see a single wt all day. But that is not good for FW or EVE as a whole.

I have seen you around and its pretty clear you have no interest in combat, which is why in my opinion there should be no built-in incentive for you to be faction war at all.

Lets stop short of drawing parallels with real life lol.
Peteris G
Ophidia in herba
#117 - 2012-06-29 22:34:01 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Peteris G wrote:
Not plan to troll, just add some points that some people seems does not see.

PvP is a bit more than shooting somebody in face. PvP is achieving Your goal while interacting with other players. So that leads to discovery couple simple (yet probably not obvious) truths:
1) if You achieve Your goal then its completely unimportant does Your "opponent" achieved his goal. So everybody might be winner. And also otherwise everybody might be looser if not achieved their goals.
2) Example about goals - trader who managed to get his cargo through pirates camp won because he achieved his, while pirates lost because they did not got kill (request from trader to kill pirates is obvious and total idiocy).
3) So me orbiting button do PvP because - I am interacting with opposite militia (by making system vulnerable which will force to leave it) and they tries to interact with me (and they get upset when are unsuccessful at it) :) (yes, even if my ship has no any single gun on it and I am orbiting butons I still do PvP)

P.S. and about some people being good at "shootin in da face"... Over history there was many people who were good at shooting (hitting) others in face yet they lost wars... :)


http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13687782

In EVE, thats what we call a PvE fit. No mistake was made in that description. What you do Mr. G, is constant farming, which in this game comes clearly under the category of PvE.

The fact that your PvE / isk farming effects anyone else at all is imo, a major problem.

Militia should not be won or lost like dull sec. It should be a hub of decent PvP. Crippling one side or the other will simply result in the undesirable conclusion of no one joining the enemy. Ideally, regardless of what anyone else does in militia it should be possible for a small corp or even an individual to support himself and do well regardless of how much PvE the rest of his faction performs (or doesnt). Now im sure there are some bitter extreme roleplayers (naming no names) that would love to log on and not see a single wt all day. But that is not good for FW or EVE as a whole.

I have seen you around and its pretty clear you have no interest in combat, which is why in my opinion there should be no built-in incentive for you to be faction war at all.

Lets stop short of drawing parallels with real life lol.


I am shameless farmer, that is undoubtfull truth :) (so what?)

"what we call" - who are those "we" and why those "we" are more important than those "we" who are calling it "fit that does its job" ? Blink

"It should be" - mistake my friend :) EVE is sandbox - it IS what we make of it :)

I like parralels with real world :) after all its biggest sandbox :) (and I like pretend to be smartass Oops )
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#118 - 2012-06-29 22:46:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Peteris G wrote:

I am shameless farmer, that is undoubtfull truth :) (so what?)

"what we call" - who are those "we" and why those "we" are more important than those "we" who are calling it "fit that does its job" ? Blink

"It should be" - mistake my friend :) EVE is sandbox - it IS what we make of it :)

I like parralels with real world :) after all its biggest sandbox :) (and I like pretend to be smartass Oops )


Dont get me wrong, im soon to be plexing 6 accounts separate to my mains to farm various militias. Its a shame that this is what is incentivised. But if i can pay for each of these toons plex in a few hours using a 3m isk ship and basically run the clients minimized (behind my mains clients) with a 200k SP toon then i might as well. While this is possible all the extra cyno alts will be welcome to cart the ol' Ark around seeding caldari low sec home systems with terribly priced modules.

My argument is that this all the farming is effecting the casual players far too much. You are on nearly all day monotonously farming, but those people that just log on for an hour or two every couple of days will no longer be able to afford to PvP at any decent rate as incomes for the losing sides have been degraded so far.

Amarr have been bailed out by a 700 man dull sec alt corp with nothing better to do than run plex. Something that is more entertaining that 99% of their time spend in dull sec. Dont see this happening for the gallente any time soon.
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#119 - 2012-06-30 09:27:38 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
eddie valvetino wrote:
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
Gallactica wrote:
Trolling hat aside.

Thing is, no-one can ever "win" Faction Warfare - Depending on which side of the fence your on with either plexxing and system capture focuessed, pure PVP focussed or a mixture of both its all dependant on what you / your corp / your alliance want to get out of it in terms of your own goals and enjoyment.

Pervs / Damar and friends "won" faction warfare on the system capture front a long time ago yet here we the Gallente still are (this is not meant as a troll). So how can you actually win? answer is you cant.

Personally its nice to see those letters in the top corner of the screen saying Gallente but does it really matter unless it causes me/us a slight problem in being locked out of a statiion? not really.

When we saw all those systems vulnerable around the Nisuwa area we were basically thinking shall we try and do something about it? Nah, lets let them get flipped then we can get some easy lp afterwards, like i said it doesnt really matter.

Wave e-peen and shout out congrats when things go your way by all means, We do it for sure (we all do it, sometimes to troll, sometimes for a bit of fun and sometimes for when you genuinly feel you achieve something) and i think its this kind of thing and the trolling that goes with it from both sides that keeps things fun and interesting Smile

Basically whatever floats your boat and do what you feel is fun for you, but always expect trolling from the guys that prefer other ways of what they deem as fun.

End of the day as long as all sides have stuff to shoot at and stuff to keep them entertained in whatever guise then alls good.


Well,......... yeah

I come on the forums to bang my sword against my shield, belittle my enemies, question their manhood and their paternity and recite my brave and valorous deeds and those of my comrades so as to rob my enemy of his fighting spirit before battle.
That's why I have an Avatar that looks like Ghenghis Khan.If you ask I'll swear my tallywhacker is 2 inches longer than yours as well.

However.....

Inasmuch as EvE is a good game, it models certain aspects of warfare well. The combat itself is a joke and totally unrealistic., but, things that are central to any real engaement, like Morale, Initiative, Shock, Comms, Command and control, span of control, Tempo, Intelligence, Rallying, routing, Massing, recon, diplomacy and logistics are all modeled very well and have an appropriate weight to them vis-a-vis real world action .That being said, the will to fight is central to any war, and winning or losing any war. In that aspect, the war CAN be won, as our enemies will to fight CAN be broken. They may rally 6 months later when game mechanics change or a new crop of players try it out, but wallets can be emptied if a high enough pace of operations is maintained, one side can create enough friction for the other side to the point they no longer see any benefit in continuing operations in theater.That is our goal.That is acheivable. The war wont end, but one side can be pummelled down for an extended length of time where the current participants lose their will to engage in any meaningful way.


While i agree with loads of the things you said with rergards fighting wars in eve, i have to say an enemy that can regroup and rally at any point in the furture is not a beat one... ego... you can not win FW
You play your game, I'll play mine.

Their will to fight can absolutely be broken. This is the metric by which I measure victoroy.If it's good enough for Clausewitz, it's good enough for me.

If it takes them so long to regroup that months pass without the gals holding a single system to the point that CCP feels compelled to recognize the anomaly by awarding me another medal, that works for me.
I want the Knights Cross of the Distiguished Blade with Oak leaf cluster.


Im sure they are minting the 'Meritus PvE Service Medals' as we speak. lol.

As far as PvP goes, i believe that personally ive done significantly better than you Tenaka, on every metric. Odd how success in PvP doesnt translate into success in the occupancy war isnt it?


You are mistaken. I am quite sure mine is at LEAST 2 inches longer than yours.
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#120 - 2012-06-30 09:31:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanaka Sekigahara
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
eddie valvetino wrote:
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
Gallactica wrote:
Trolling hat aside.

Thing is, no-one can ever "win" Faction Warfare - Depending on which side of the fence your on with either plexxing and system capture focuessed, pure PVP focussed or a mixture of both its all dependant on what you / your corp / your alliance want to get out of it in terms of your own goals and enjoyment.

Pervs / Damar and friends "won" faction warfare on the system capture front a long time ago yet here we the Gallente still are (this is not meant as a troll). So how can you actually win? answer is you cant.

Personally its nice to see those letters in the top corner of the screen saying Gallente but does it really matter unless it causes me/us a slight problem in being locked out of a statiion? not really.

When we saw all those systems vulnerable around the Nisuwa area we were basically thinking shall we try and do something about it? Nah, lets let them get flipped then we can get some easy lp afterwards, like i said it doesnt really matter.

Wave e-peen and shout out congrats when things go your way by all means, We do it for sure (we all do it, sometimes to troll, sometimes for a bit of fun and sometimes for when you genuinly feel you achieve something) and i think its this kind of thing and the trolling that goes with it from both sides that keeps things fun and interesting Smile

Basically whatever floats your boat and do what you feel is fun for you, but always expect trolling from the guys that prefer other ways of what they deem as fun.

End of the day as long as all sides have stuff to shoot at and stuff to keep them entertained in whatever guise then alls good.


Well,......... yeah

I come on the forums to bang my sword against my shield, belittle my enemies, question their manhood and their paternity and recite my brave and valorous deeds and those of my comrades so as to rob my enemy of his fighting spirit before battle.
That's why I have an Avatar that looks like Ghenghis Khan.If you ask I'll swear my tallywhacker is 2 inches longer than yours as well.

However.....

Inasmuch as EvE is a good game, it models certain aspects of warfare well. The combat itself is a joke and totally unrealistic., but, things that are central to any real engaement, like Morale, Initiative, Shock, Comms, Command and control, span of control, Tempo, Intelligence, Rallying, routing, Massing, recon, diplomacy and logistics are all modeled very well and have an appropriate weight to them vis-a-vis real world action .That being said, the will to fight is central to any war, and winning or losing any war. In that aspect, the war CAN be won, as our enemies will to fight CAN be broken. They may rally 6 months later when game mechanics change or a new crop of players try it out, but wallets can be emptied if a high enough pace of operations is maintained, one side can create enough friction for the other side to the point they no longer see any benefit in continuing operations in theater.That is our goal.That is acheivable. The war wont end, but one side can be pummelled down for an extended length of time where the current participants lose their will to engage in any meaningful way.


While i agree with loads of the things you said with rergards fighting wars in eve, i have to say an enemy that can regroup and rally at any point in the furture is not a beat one... ego... you can not win FW
You play your game, I'll play mine.

Their will to fight can absolutely be broken. This is the metric by which I measure victoroy.If it's good enough for Clausewitz, it's good enough for me.

If it takes them so long to regroup that months pass without the gals holding a single system to the point that CCP feels compelled to recognize the anomaly by awarding me another medal, that works for me.
I want the Knights Cross of the Distiguished Blade with Oak leaf cluster.


Im sure they are minting the 'Meritus PvE Service Medals' as we speak. lol.

As far as PvP goes, i believe that personally ive done significantly better than you Tenaka, on every metric. Odd how success in PvP doesnt translate into success in the occupancy war isnt it?


And THAT is EXACTLY why you and gallente WILL lose. As sure as the sun comes up and bears pee on trees.

You are busy oogling KBs while you make love to yourself, while we are fighting a WAR.

You are concerned about "Player versus Player" convinced that what, exactly?? A purty KBs gives you certain rights? Like winning a war? Not . All that means is you blew some crap up. Kids with firecrackers blow stuff up. We are Not impressed..
Like I said, one side is fighting a war, and the other is looking for medeivil jousts.Have your jousts buddy. I'll have fun winning the War.