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Corp hopping. Is it going to be addressed? It's reaching ridiculous levels.
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#81 - 2012-06-27 21:57:18 UTC
Marconus Orion wrote:
Price Check Aisle3 wrote:
Marconus Orion wrote:
So did the war dec change bring the merc world back into the spot light?

No, it brought on Jade whining about the costs to defend against the 30 Goons bored enough to go to Empire.

If only players were able to war dec those 30 bored goons without having to dec an entire alliance...


Would be nice to pay 50m isk for the 30 of them rather than 500m for 9000.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Moonasha
Orcses and Goblinz
#82 - 2012-06-27 21:58:51 UTC
Leave high sec?
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#83 - 2012-06-27 22:10:51 UTC
You get decced. You want to ally with 50 other corps to help fight the aggressor. But that would cost too much. So you ask those 50 to all join an alliance. Not your alliance, but one of their own. Now you bring in all 50 as one ally for free.

And those 50 "extra" corps needed to keep control of the alliance? Gone! Its not your alliance. Let them figure out the politics.

Even if they cannot all work together, if they can at least form 2 to 3 alliances, bringing them all in as allies will not cost that much.

What if a few in that allying alliance pull a fast one and failcascade the alliance? Let them. Then go ask all the members of whats left if they want to still be in the war, ask those that do to form a new alliance and try again.

Best of all, if its all going wrong, you can just say, "Forget the entire thing" and drop corp.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#84 - 2012-06-27 22:13:10 UTC
I agree with the OP.

Cowardly corp hopping should be sorted so that it can't be abused to this degree.

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#85 - 2012-06-27 22:19:16 UTC
Moonasha wrote:
Leave high sec?


How would that help if the people we want to shoot are in hisec ? (ie moon-miner freighters and haulers)

One doesn't fight a war by going after the people who want to fight.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#86 - 2012-06-27 22:20:02 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

It's easy to talk smack behind the back of a group of people, huh? But your argument can easily be flipped against you.


I'm not behind a group of people. I am part of the group of people. You just have to look at my killboard. Wait what - 50% efficiency wow this guy must suck. No, it means I fight a lot, and rarely run away. That means I die a lot but who cares, the last thing I am worried about is a killboard. No, I ain't hiding.

Well, no one brought your combat stats into question, so I don't see why you'd bother to bring them up. My main issue with your posts is the apparent elitism behind them. You didn't discover 0.0. Personally, I lived in null for many years since 2004, and switched over to high-sec/wormhole pvp after becoming utterly frustrated with the lack of meaningful "interaction" between, and within, null-sec alliances. The same goes for a whole bunch of people I play with. Null isn't the end-all solution to objective imbalances in the war declaration system; it never was, and it never will be.

Ptraci wrote:
As for smack, I honestly didn't see it as smack.

Believe me, whenever anyone tells others how they should come on over to their null-sec if they want to fight, it will be seen as smack. Have you ever though about the possibility that it is hypocritical to tell small-scale pvpers to visit your space to die to your blob, while at the same time criticizing them for seeking what you perceive as "uneven" fights?

Ptraci wrote:
And I realize, Destiny, that we don't always see eye to eye. But I don't see any virtue in hugging Jita undock waiting for easy pickings.

If you want to see eye-to-eye more, you should stop straw-manning all of my arguments. When did I espouse the idea of camping Jita undock as the virtue of pvp? Contrary to your assumptions, only a few people actually make that their full-time activity.

Ptraci wrote:
The "safety of capital cover" is provided by me and my friends. It's not free, and it's not created by a game mechanic. It's actual people I can skype, or call up on comms or intel, people who I know I can trust, and people who trust me. Anyone who is jealous of that and prefers an artificial set of imperfect rules needs more friends.

And I suppose that things like scouts, RR boats, high-end implant sets, and now, excessive war fees that can't even be justified by getting what you pay for (CCP's words, not mine) are free. I also suppose that high-sec warriors always play alone, with only their armies of alts to keep them company.

Like I said, straw-men all the way. Not necessarily a dig at you, but I think it's something you should work on if you want to have more meaningful discussions. The "you're a Jita camper with no friends" thing isn't going to take you very far.

I'd still like you to answer that other part of my original reply to you, by the way.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#87 - 2012-06-27 22:20:37 UTC
Darius Brinn wrote:
After the changes to war mechanics, small corps have it harder to wage war on large alliances, an activity that could prove very lucrative if done right.

However, today I'm here to cry and whine about good ole' corp hopping. Yes. Again.

We're currently in the middle of a tiny and friendly war with AAA pilots, and we're finding it quite frustrating to see how fond of corp hopping they are.

AAA pilots LOG OFF, get kicked out of corp on demand, relog, and bypass fleets and camps in NPC corps.

How come this hasn't still been addressed as an EXPLOIT?

Ban NPC corps, make individuals wardeccable - problem solved.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#88 - 2012-06-27 22:26:24 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
If you want to see eye-to-eye more, you should stop straw-manning all of my arguments. When did I espouse the idea of camping Jita undock as the virtue of pvp? Contrary to your assumptions, only a few people actually make that their full-time activity.

Look, Jita camping is like being Darwin's sword. Morons that undock expensive stuff with an in-corp character while wardecced and don't immediately try to redock and instead just get blown up...

deserve it.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Betrinna Cantis
#89 - 2012-06-27 22:26:55 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Kyle Ward wrote:
Ewww! I bet their Corp History tab is just a huge mess...

Oh, I have a story to tell about this.

I once warred a carebear miner corporation, the members of which were not even aware of the "corp history" feature. Some of them were many years old. They jumped between their alt corporations each time I put out a new war, per their CEO's instructions. When I pointed out their hip-hoppin' corp histories, a few of them panicked. One even biomassed his character because he thought that he would no longer be "employable" otherwise. When I questioned the integrity of that decision, he told me it doesn't matter anyway because he "only" had four million skillpoints. He was over a year old. Apparently, his CEO told him that once he got into a Hulk, he'd never need anything else, so he stopped training his skills.

That CEO needs to be taken to an Ice planet somewhere to live out the rest of his days.....Oh Wait! I think I saw that somewhere ...Shocked

Alts have been changed to protect the Innocent. You may have mistaken me for someone who cares.....
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#90 - 2012-06-27 22:31:33 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Moonasha wrote:
Leave high sec?


How would that help if the people we want to shoot are in hisec ? (ie moon-miner freighters and haulers)

One doesn't fight a war by going after the people who want to fight.

That's what all of these null guys don't seem to realize. They've been conditioned to view combat as honoUrably lining up in neat rows of sniper boats and taking shots at each other like a bunch of redcoats. Instilling this sense of honor and elitism is one of the few ways that leadership can more reliably control large numbers of players. After all, when people think that what they're doing elevates them above others, monotony is easier to swallow. I have many characters, and have been in many null-sec alliances, and have seen both sides of the coin. The problem with the ones who don't stick to this ideology (ie, the fun ones) is that they are invariably smaller, and tend to lose large-scale conflicts more often.

Really, it's no surprise when these guys start convulsing at the mere mention of non-consensual pvp, despite being pvpers themselves. It's not their fault, and I don't hold it against them. I just wish they would put in some effort toward respecting the validity of other play styles the way that the high-sec warriors do. After all, we don't tell them to grab fat haulers and fly down the Jita-Amarr pipe each time they pine about whatever 0.0 woes they have.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#91 - 2012-06-27 22:35:33 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
That's what all of these null guys don't seem to realize. They've been conditioned to view combat as honoUrably lining up in neat rows of sniper boats and taking shots at each other like a bunch of redcoats. Instilling this sense of honor and elitism is one of the few ways that leadership can more reliably control large numbers of players. After all, when people think that what they're doing elevates them above others, monotony is easier to swallow. I have many characters, and have been in many null-sec alliances, and have seen both sides of the coin. The problem with the ones who don't stick to this ideology (ie, the fun ones) is that they are invariably smaller, and tend to lose large-scale conflicts more often.

"Honor" and "elitism" .... without it you aree "smaller" and "tend to lose large-scale conflicts more often."

Hm, interesting theory you have there.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#92 - 2012-06-27 22:39:48 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
That's what all of these null guys don't seem to realize. They've been conditioned to view combat as honoUrably lining up in neat rows of sniper boats and taking shots at each other like a bunch of redcoats. Instilling this sense of honor and elitism is one of the few ways that leadership can more reliably control large numbers of players. After all, when people think that what they're doing elevates them above others, monotony is easier to swallow. I have many characters, and have been in many null-sec alliances, and have seen both sides of the coin. The problem with the ones who don't stick to this ideology (ie, the fun ones) is that they are invariably smaller, and tend to lose large-scale conflicts more often.

"Honor" and "elitism" .... without it you aree "smaller" and "tend to lose large-scale conflicts more often."

Hm, interesting theory you have there.

Not sure if you're trolling, but that's not what I said. Read again.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#93 - 2012-06-27 22:42:13 UTC
Darius Brinn wrote:

Still, he can avoid the consequences of being at war, when he originally decided to stick with the corp for a week.


Yes. He doesn't want to be at war with you. He pays his subs so he's entitled to make that decision. If you don't like it, why don't you wardec someone who actually wants to fight you? Otherwise all I can see here is another whiny carebear.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#94 - 2012-06-27 22:47:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Victoria Sin wrote:
Darius Brinn wrote:

Still, he can avoid the consequences of being at war, when he originally decided to stick with the corp for a week.


Yes. He doesn't want to be at war with you. He pays his subs so he's entitled to make that decision. If you don't like it, why don't you wardec someone who actually wants to fight you? Otherwise all I can see here is another whiny carebear.

Because there are many reason to go to war aside from seeking a "goodfite."

He pays his subs for a game that advertises non-consensual pvp as a main feature. He agreed to be exposed to this feature when he paid his subs. That alone means that he's not entitled to be immune to wars. He is, however, entitled to use valid game mechanics to avoid wars. And that's what we're discussing in this thread.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
TheBreadMuncher
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
#95 - 2012-06-27 22:51:15 UTC
If corp hopping is a legitimate tactic, my monster spamming the other day was a legitimate protest.

"We will create the introduction thread if that is requested by the community. Also, we will have an ISD Seminar about the CCL team in the coming weeks in which you can ask your questions about the CCL team and provide some constructive feedback to us." - Countless pages of locked threads and numerous permabanned accounts later, change is coming.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#96 - 2012-06-27 22:51:33 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
Darius Brinn wrote:

Still, he can avoid the consequences of being at war, when he originally decided to stick with the corp for a week.

Yes. He doesn't want to be at war with you. He pays his subs so he's entitled to make that decision. If you don't like it, why don't you wardec someone who actually wants to fight you? Otherwise all I can see here is another whiny carebear.

Because there are many reason to go to war aside from seeking a "goodfite."

Interdiction of your non-NPC corp freighter characters.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#97 - 2012-06-27 22:52:31 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Because there are many reason to go to war aside from seeking a "goodfite."


It's just another "I don't have enough easy targets in high-sec" whines. It's so boring.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#98 - 2012-06-27 22:57:43 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
so what you are saying is that to have a large alliance costs lots of isk and there is lots of risk associated with it like awoxers and such... so should an alliace who has spent the time negotiating and taking risk not have some advantages to it?


You appear to have completely ignored the point that the goons need to pay 50m isk to declare a war that I'd need to pay 8.2b (per month) to defend with 1/20th the number.

As I said in my initial post - with the mechanics so completely skewed in favour of large alliances I'm honestly not surprised that most people choose corp hopping wardec evasion rather than playing with a fixed deck where the dealer controls all the cards.



right just like you ignored the fact that you can save 8.2 billion by having those allies join your alliance! i mean thats what alliances are for right?

how about you send me the 8.2 billion isk and i will negotiate with your allies to join the star fraction...


Read again. (harder this time).



Oh so you took my advise and increased the size of your alliane... Cool beans bro...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Price Check Aisle3
#99 - 2012-06-27 22:59:23 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Because there are many reason to go to war aside from seeking a "goodfite."
It's just another "I don't have enough easy targets in high-sec" whines. It's so boring.

Ptraci alt detected.
  • Karl Hobb IATS
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#100 - 2012-06-27 23:29:46 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Oh so you took my advise and increased the size of your alliane... Cool beans bro...

Adapting? Good job !

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?