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The future of Community and CCL

First post First post
Author
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
#661 - 2012-10-09 08:21:37 UTC
If a thread on community and CCL gets a bit derailed you could always... y'know - moderate it.

The alternative looks like the old "deep sixed".

Just saying.
III ZiggyBang
One Point 0
#662 - 2012-10-09 12:04:08 UTC
I might have said some things I shouldn't have the otherday & got my main banned for life. I hold the ISD directly responsible for this, they deliberately provoked me into a fit of rage with their ridiculous & continuous interjections & locks.

I am prepared to accept an apology & reinstatement of my posting privileges & forget the whole matter.
In return I promise never to say bad things about these valued volunteers again. (unless warranted) but I'll refrain from 'inappropriate' language in future.

I would like to suggest that everybody lighten up a little & perhaps these rampant control freaks ought to grow a thicker hide when dealing with the general discussion board, after all, sticks & stones & all that.

thank you.
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#663 - 2012-10-09 15:01:50 UTC
This thread will die anyway ,CCP will keep their mouth shut until this blows over .
Happens all the time

R.S.I2014

Pipa Porto
#664 - 2012-10-09 15:18:06 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
This thread will die anyway ,CCP will keep their mouth shut until this blows over .
Happens all the time


Unfortunately for them, as these past 4 months have shown, the fact that the problem keeps waving its **** bad moderation in people's faces keeps the problem (and annoyance) fresh.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

None ofthe Above
#665 - 2012-10-09 15:42:17 UTC
CCP Gargant wrote:
This thread has fulfilled its purpose. It is about time to unsticky it as it has derailed in such a fashion that hurts the initial message we wanted to bring across. Yes we are still going through the growing pains and yes there is still room to improve, but this has become something else entirely.

The CCL seminar that Navigator mentioned will be held this week with the exact time and date to be announced later.


Oh that is disappointing. The one place on the forums where moderation could be discussed has fulfilled it's purpose? You no longer feel that should be allowed?

Please reconsider.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#666 - 2012-10-09 15:51:27 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
This thread will die anyway ,CCP will keep their mouth shut until this blows over .
Happens all the time


Unfortunately for them, as these past 4 months have shown, the fact that the problem keeps waving its **** bad moderation in people's faces keeps the problem (and annoyance) fresh.


Its indeed annoying, i had some replies removed some were trolls but a few were normal replies (at least i thought ,they were).

R.S.I2014

Anslo
Scope Works
#667 - 2012-10-09 16:04:34 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
If CCP wants to make this forum inhospitable to discussion, that's their right. People will move to other forums the same way most other MMOs' official forums are largely abandoned.


Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Seriously.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Trendon Evenstar
Olympus Gods
#668 - 2012-10-09 16:16:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Trendon Evenstar
What these forums need is the Hratli Smirks Guide to Posting™

Here you go: mods sticky this please tia

Hello, I'm Skymarshal H. Ratli Smirks, the hero of 49-U. I've been asked by Vinata to write a guide to help you eager Kugutsumen posters not smear virtual poop all over these forums. Which you persist in doing every time your webbed, cheeto-stained man-paw shoves your cursor over the “post new reply” button.

Yes, you are a bad poster. And by “you” I mean you personally. However, if you follow these guidelines you may become a less-bad poster, which is something we look forward to with the utmost anticipation.

1. No antiquated terrible meme posting. These are memes that were potentially at one point effective and maybe even amusing, then discarded, taken up by CAOD, SHC, and posters like you, and driven into the ground. They are obsolete. At this point seeing “u mad bro” posted, or references to people “being mad,” is like listening to your grandparents use slang ten years out of date. It is wince-inducing.

2. Images you pulled off 4chan. Yes, we know 4chan is hilarious and the captions are soooo funny! Post all the pictures you want there! But post words here you ******* illiterate.

3. Various permutations of the word “fail” that do not adhere to classic, pre-internet usage. Likewise "epic." Keep that **** at home.

4. I heartily encourage you to lurk before posting. Lurking is useful because it introduces you to local posting conventions and generally gives you a handle on the regular forum denizens.

5. When you find a good post, take a few moments to examine it critically and figure out what makes it a good post. What makes it amusing? What makes it enjoyable to read? Do the same to a bad post. What makes it garbage? What makes it painful to read? Try to incorporate what you learned into your next post.

6. Along the lines of #5, study the good posters and the good trolls. Look at their language, their tone, and even their gimmicks. What makes them effective? You don't have to copy them, but pay attention.

7. Don't do emotes in a post. This isn't a Vampire the Masquerade RP room on IRC.

8. Recognize ironicposting and written sarcasm.

Unless you are confident in your command of the Art of Posting, I recommend being succinct. Writing long, elaborate posts is really only fine if you are confident in your ability to hold the reader's attention and keep them interested/amused throughout the length of the post. You remember that scene from The Shawshank Redemption where Tim Robbins had to crawl five hundred yards through a raw sewage pipe? That's what reading a long bad post is like.

This goes for angry rageposting too. I don't personally endorse rageposting because it is terribly boring, but some of you ******* love rageposting like Suas loved cocaine. Whatever, I can't personally stop you. Just make it brief.

Posts about how awesome you and your legion of space badasses are and how you are about to rain **** and pit bulls onto your hapless space adversaries are also boring. If you post these, you will likely be trolled.

Don't get trolled. If someone posted something obviously provocatively wrong and you feel compelled to correct it and it wasn't posted by CrusaderKnight then you are probably about to get trolled. Looking at you, TEST.

Know when to get out of a thread. Threads usually degenerate into complete circular fuckery, and spending further time in that cesspit arguing is a waste. When it becomes clear that further debate is pointless, leave.
CCP Gargant
C C P
C C P Alliance
#669 - 2012-10-09 16:35:05 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
CCP Gargant wrote:
This thread has fulfilled its purpose. It is about time to unsticky it as it has derailed in such a fashion that hurts the initial message we wanted to bring across. Yes we are still going through the growing pains and yes there is still room to improve, but this has become something else entirely.

The CCL seminar that Navigator mentioned will be held this week with the exact time and date to be announced later.


Oh that is disappointing. The one place on the forums where moderation could be discussed has fulfilled it's purpose? You no longer feel that should be allowed?

Please reconsider.


Almost the first thing I did when I came into the forums was to acknowledge that there needs to be a place to discuss moderation in the general sense rather than specific instances of it. I am very much ready to discuss my own opinions regarding ways of moderation. This thread served that purpose, true, but it currently does more bad than good due to events that negatively affected it over the summer that I myself had nothing to do with because I wasn't a part of the Community Team yet.

Removing the sticky on this thread is not an attempt to bury it or hide it. I can lock and delete for that. I'm trying to convey the point that we know things aren't in their best possible state yet and we are actively working towards getting them there. The seminar will be held this week as I said, and we will continue on from there.

I'm not promising anything because I want to be able to deliver, but I can say that I have a specific goal and I am working towards that.

CCP Gargant | EVE Universe esports Coordinator

Anslo
Scope Works
#670 - 2012-10-09 16:38:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
Gargant and Navigator for CSM 8

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Pipa Porto
#671 - 2012-10-09 16:38:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
CCP Gargant wrote:
Almost the first thing I did when I came into the forums was to acknowledge that there needs to be a place to discuss moderation in the general sense rather than specific instances of it. I am very much ready to discuss my own opinions regarding ways of moderation. This thread served that purpose, true, but it currently does more bad than good due to events that negatively affected it over the summer that I myself had nothing to do with because I wasn't a part of the Community Team yet.

Removing the sticky on this thread is not an attempt to bury it or hide it. I can lock and delete for that. I'm trying to convey the point that we know things aren't in their best possible state yet and we are actively working towards getting them there. The seminar will be held this week as I said, and we will continue on from there.

I'm not promising anything because I want to be able to deliver, but I can say that I have a specific goal and I am working towards that.


So where's the stickied thread to replace this as a place to discuss moderation?

I said you wanted to bury the topic, not explode it (as locking or deleting it would).

In the meantime, how has this thread "fulfilled its purpose" of
CCP Navigator wrote:
Finally, the Community team will be locking the myriad of threads on criticizing ISD. You can direct all comments to this thread only as this is the only one we will be following and answering.


Oh, and it currently does more bad than good to CCP's interests because the ISDs keep shitting the bed.

EDIT: Wacky, "shitting" isn't a censored word on EVE-O

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Anslo
Scope Works
#672 - 2012-10-09 16:42:29 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:

So where's the stickied thread to replace this as a place to discuss moderation?

I said you wanted to bury the topic, not explode it (as locking or deleting it would).

In the meantime, how has this thread "fulfilled its purpose" of
CCP Navigator wrote:
Finally, the Community team will be locking the myriad of threads on criticizing ISD. You can direct all comments to this thread only as this is the only one we will be following and answering.


Because people like you turned something that could be potentially civilized and engage in constructive criticism instead utilized passive aggressive methods of communication and outright blasting the ISD and CCP.

Did they make mistakes? Yes, sure crap went down and they are trying to rectify it. But then you and others come along just blasting them instead of trying to do something constructive. It's a wonder this doesn't just get locked (and I hope it does).

Discussing forum moderation technically isn't even allowed. This is CCP's forum, not yours. If they have ISD running some parts of it, and the ISD mess up, that isn't your que to just bash CCP and ISD.

If you're going to criticize, do it with civility. Otherwise, kindly shut the **** up. You were previously civil and analytical in your posts here and I agreed with a lot you said, now you're just being an *******. A paragon like example of all that is wrong with the Eve Community.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

CCP Navigator
C C P
C C P Alliance
#673 - 2012-10-09 16:46:16 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:



Any news on the ISDs new self appointed ability to create rules?


Here is the only rule you really need to be concerned about.:

When you run the EVE Community team you can make all the rules you like and enforce them as you see fit. Until that time we would invite you to follow the current forum rules and show some respect to those staff and volunteers who aim to make it a better place for everyone else.

If that is something you feel is not within your power then we may have a problem.
The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#674 - 2012-10-09 16:50:01 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

So where's the stickied thread to replace this as a place to discuss moderation?

I said you wanted to bury the topic, not explode it (as locking or deleting it would).

In the meantime, how has this thread "fulfilled its purpose" of
CCP Navigator wrote:
Finally, the Community team will be locking the myriad of threads on criticizing ISD. You can direct all comments to this thread only as this is the only one we will be following and answering.


Because people like you turned something that could be potentially civilized and engage in constructive criticism instead utilized passive aggressive methods of communication and outright blasting the ISD and CCP.

Did they make mistakes? Yes, sure crap went down and they are trying to rectify it. But then you and others come along just blasting them instead of trying to do something constructive. It's a wonder this doesn't just get locked (and I hope it does).

Discussing forum moderation technically isn't even allowed. This is CCP's forum, not yours. If they have ISD running some parts of it, and the ISD mess up, that isn't your que to just bash CCP and ISD.

If you're going to criticize, do it with civility. Otherwise, kindly shut the **** up. You were previously civil and analytical in your posts here and I agreed with a lot you said, now you're just being an *******. A paragon like example of all that is wrong with the Eve Community.


Anslo is absolutely right.

Pipa Porto, if you are still eager to continue with your nonsensical crusade, there is always other alternatives.
Anslo
Scope Works
#675 - 2012-10-09 17:10:46 UTC
I like how Pipa suddenly stops replying when she tauted that this thread will stay active and on top since the "problem is still fresh and can't be buried."

Who's trying to bury things now Lol

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Pipa Porto
#676 - 2012-10-09 17:18:49 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Any news on the ISDs new self appointed ability to create rules?


Here is the only rule you really need to be concerned about.:

When you run the EVE Community team you can make all the rules you like and enforce them as you see fit. Until that time we would invite you to follow the current forum rules and show some respect to those staff and volunteers who aim to make it a better place for everyone else.

If that is something you feel is not within your power then we may have a problem.


And, as I keep trying to point out, the current rules do not prohibit the thing that ISD Suvetar claimed was prohibited.

To my knowledge, prohibiting something not previously prohibited is generally considered creating a new rule.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

CCP Gargant
C C P
C C P Alliance
#677 - 2012-10-09 17:21:18 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Gargant
Anslo wrote:
I like how Pipa suddenly stops replying when she tauted that this thread will stay active and on top since the "problem is still fresh and can't be buried."

Who's trying to bury things now Lol


Pipas point still stands and it is a perfectly valid one; why will we be leaving the forums without an official thread where we encourage people to discuss the moderation on the forums. Let's not cross over to bashing country as I will not allow it!

But to answer the point: I will put up a stickied thread after the seminar, probably at the start of next week.

CCP Gargant | EVE Universe esports Coordinator

Pipa Porto
#678 - 2012-10-09 17:33:49 UTC
CCP Gargant wrote:
Anslo wrote:
I like how Pipa suddenly stops replying when she tauted that this thread will stay active and on top since the "problem is still fresh and can't be buried."

Who's trying to bury things now Lol


Pipas point still stands and it is a perfectly valid one; why will we be leaving the forums without an official thread where we encourage people to discuss the moderation on the forums. Let's not cross over to bashing country as I will not allow it!

But to answer the point: I will put up a stickied thread after the seminar, probably at the start of next week.


Wonderful. Hopefully it can be filled with pages of posts that look like the middle of this thread*.

*The most productive part, after the first part which had a lot of "welp the CCL idea has failed" and before we got bogged down in simply reporting on a series of crises.


As I've said a number of times. I hope the CCL can succeed. But I think they need much more training and experience (the old refrain "lurk moar" comes to mind) to be successful. There's only so many times you can claim growing pains without it becoming farcical.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Anslo
Scope Works
#679 - 2012-10-09 17:36:37 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:


Wonderful. Hopefully it can be filled with pages of posts that look like the middle of this thread*.

*The most productive part, after the first part which had a lot of "welp the CCL idea has failed" and before we got bogged down in simply reporting on a series of crises.


As I've said a number of times. I hope the CCL can succeed. But I think they need much more training and experience (the old refrain "lurk moar" comes to mind) to be successful. There's only so many times you can claim growing pains without it becoming farcical.


See, want moar posts like this.

I'm sorry to have called you out Pipa, I normally like your analytical ramblings, but you were just getting kind...What?.

But yes, I agree. Less ranting and bashing, moar constructive problem solving \o/

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

mkint
#680 - 2012-10-09 17:37:08 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
CCP Navigator wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Any news on the ISDs new self appointed ability to create rules?


Here is the only rule you really need to be concerned about.:

When you run the EVE Community team you can make all the rules you like and enforce them as you see fit. Until that time we would invite you to follow the current forum rules and show some respect to those staff and volunteers who aim to make it a better place for everyone else.

If that is something you feel is not within your power then we may have a problem.


And, as I keep trying to point out, the current rules do not prohibit the thing that ISD Suvetar claimed was prohibited.

To my knowledge, prohibiting something not previously prohibited is generally considered creating a new rule.

Were you being an ass with said moderation? Because there is a rule about that. Stop trying to be a rules lawyer and try being a human being.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.