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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Reintroduce standings info from other players (standing tab for faction and corp standings)!

Author
namelessclone01
blackbox ops
#21 - 2011-10-21 07:42:32 UTC
/signed

bring my Caldari State 10.00 back, please!
el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2011-10-27 21:06:01 UTC
-1. no, not THIS way, but...

standings are a first of all a private thing. it is GREAT they are gone for the public. but, i agree, there needs to be a way to make them visible... this could lead into a whole new concept of eve gameplay:

getting intel on characters. e.g. by asking favors from NPC corps

make standings count, give standings more meaning than we currently have. this gets off-topic, in time i will post longer on this, just some ideas for now...

- make standings some "currency" you can cause something to happen with (consuming it with it)
- open up standings to warfare, be able to cause changes in someone else's standings (to some degree, paying with your own, with concept of diminishing returns) ...
- make allowance to dock depend on standing
- be able to get standings based on whom you kill (the victims standings), enabling pvp for standings
- make pve and pvp blend. get NPC missions to kill people hostile to their faction (destroying xx amount of their isk) to get LP and standing

check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like

Carola Kessler
Lost Sisters Of New Eden
#23 - 2011-12-09 08:25:50 UTC
Bumping up this Thread since after talking to alot of peoples also those whcih having a business in Eve called 'Standing services for POS deployment' It's about time CCP overthinks their politics in regards to their former decissions and take the removal back.

With the new render techniques and the new UI and stuff nowadys the loading from the standing infos about at least Faction standings shouldn't take anymore that long then months ago.
el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2011-12-09 20:02:20 UTC
- if you apply to a corp all personal officers should see the applicants standings
- within the corp standing could/should also be visible among the members

but outside corp? it is a private information. it should not be free of charge.

check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like

Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#25 - 2011-12-10 14:08:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Callidus Dux
el alasar wrote:

but outside corp? it is a private information. it should not be free of charge.


From Page One:
Callidus Dux wrote:
I fully support this idea. (from Dosperado)
[ .... ]
I also say: Bring back the standing tab for all characters. At least the standings for factions and corporations.


If CCP would like to hear my compromise; I would suggest to handle the standings like the current certificates. You can show them or not. All you have to do is set the radio button in your character sheet.


To make such informations optional would be a good solution

Further private informations are:
- Killmails + Fittings + NEW: Implants
- Employment History
- Finished Contracts
- All my (un)known Alts (you can easy find them through external websites)
- My Position in EVE (track someone down with the help of Locator Agents)
- ...

You can see, that the "private information issue" is already existent. We have several possibilities to harass someone with all the other free informations available. Anyway ... what sensitive data is provided with my standings to NPC- factions; corporations or agents, which I can't get with the help of an locator agent or another website in the internet?

!! PvP people show off their killmails they have collected.
Let PvE people show their standings they have (hard) earned !!!
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2011-12-10 16:10:57 UTC
+1

Bring it back.

I run a standing grind service.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=19454
With removal of standings tab, the moronic 3 hour update of standing from API, and the old bug where you can't check your own standings without relogging, it's impossible to check client standings in a practical manner.

CCP could have fixed the very old bug, or made standing update from API more often then once every 3 hours. But instead, they decided to break the one thing that's working.Roll
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2011-12-12 01:14:23 UTC
I agree with the OP, the NPC Corporation and Faction standing list (Not Agent) needs to be brought back.

All CCP needed to do was remove the list of Agent standings.

I wonder if there's a proposal about this issue currently active in the Assembly Hall.



As for this idea:

el alasar wrote:
-1. no, not THIS way, but...

standings are a first of all a private thing. it is GREAT they are gone for the public. but, i agree, there needs to be a way to make them visible... this could lead into a whole new concept of eve gameplay:

getting intel on characters. e.g. by asking favors from NPC corps

make standings count, give standings more meaning than we currently have. this gets off-topic, in time i will post longer on this, just some ideas for now...

- make standings some "currency" you can cause something to happen with (consuming it with it)
- open up standings to warfare, be able to cause changes in someone else's standings (to some degree, paying with your own, with concept of diminishing returns) ...
- make allowance to dock depend on standing
- be able to get standings based on whom you kill (the victims standings), enabling pvp for standings
- make pve and pvp blend. get NPC missions to kill people hostile to their faction (destroying xx amount of their isk) to get LP and standing


I admit that a lot of thought went into this but everything in this idea contradicts itself. These are game-breaking ideas that can be easily exploited. Here's a few reasons why I say 'NO, NO, NO' to these ideas stated in the post.



First of all, high positive standings is very tough to gain and takes a very long time to achieve. If standings are to be considered 'Private Information' then getting that info from any source negates that 'Privacy Act'.

There's already 2 different types of 'currency' in-game. Don't need another type in-game.

Being able to change another players standing would at the very least be viewed as a personal attack, harassment and or grief play.

Docking rights based on standings is already active in-game with POS and Outposts.

Gaining standings based on PvP kills basically cuts out the PvE aspect. That alienates a large majority of players.

Having PvE and PvP blend for LP and standing gain by completing 'Bounty' missions of killing 'Wanted' or 'Unfriendly' players is another widely debated topic that needs a lot of work before being implemented. One easy way to exploit this is with disposable alts.
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#28 - 2011-12-12 02:02:03 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
I agree with the OP, the NPC Corporation and Faction standing list (Not Agent) needs to be brought back.

All CCP needed to do was remove the list of Agent standings.

I wonder if there's a proposal about this issue currently active in the Assembly Hall.


If there is Bump it, and I'll redirect to it from the one I just made in the Assembly Hall not 30 min ago... Not sure how I missed this thread until just now. What?

Anyway, 100% support for OPers proposal to bring back visible standings.
Rina Asanari
CitadeI
#29 - 2011-12-12 08:15:21 UTC
My relations to other players, NPCs, corporations (player or NPC) are noone's business except for the directly affected party until I decide to reveal them myself.

The CEO or HR manager of a corp I'm applying to may have a valid reason to ask me for disclosure, for example, but even then I should have the option to simply decline and walk away, as it is now.

Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2011-12-12 13:01:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Mocam
dosperado wrote:
What about the standings tab on the character info from other players while in space? We want faction and corp standings back into the game (You can leave agent standings out)!. Removing this function has nothing to do with lag reduction. Noone and I say NOONE will click other player "standings tabs" while in a fight. And if you possibly want to generate "lag" you still can click your own standings while in space. It will still load several seconds (depending on the amount of standing entries)

If you cant see other players standings ->
-roleplay gets hard
-no standings push services possible (without api s*h*i*t)
-difficulties to set up high sec pos (no standing info about new players in corp)
-no "show off" of cool 10.0 faction and corp standings.

I'm going to lose patience...a DEV said on the forums a few months ago that you will bring back in standings....you had enough time now...

SO BRING THEM BACK IN ASAP!

Thanks.


It's not needed. You can see how any person in your corporation effects your organizations standings by in-game tools.

The only way I'd see this being enabled would be via costs such as an additional service from Locator Agents. Pay and you can get info. Even then, it would probably be limited to the faction of the locator agent.

Background checks on people aren't cheap and easy in real life or everyone would/could gain instant "top secret" security clearances but those cost.

-roleplay gets hard
-- it enables roleplaying even more. Unless you have information available from their joining your organization, you don't get mass info on them "easily" - that takes time and effort. As such, "strangers" can claim anything they like and you won't know until it's checked by a detail search.

The only way I could see it as RP style publishing is if they could LIE and forge what shows. THAT would be RP style. Like lying on a resume - they could put anything they want on there. (at which point, I'd also go with forging of employment history).

-no standings push services possible (without api s*h*i*t)
I"m not sure what you mean by "push services". What I do know is that you can, in-game, check your corporations standings with any NPC entity, right-click your corprations standings and "show composition" - this shows everyone in your organization that impacts standings with that group. If they haven't ever had contact with them, they won't show. If they have - it will show what they did.

-difficulties to set up high sec pos (no standing info about new players in corp)
Again - just bring up that faction's information -> right-click the standings for your corporation -> "Show Composition". This will show who has what standings that impact your corporation's standings.

-no "show off" of cool 10.0 faction and corp standings.
Put it in your bio if you want.


Honestly this is very easy to see what MEMBERS of your corporation have for standings. This adds nothing beyond invading the privacy of people who have not explicitly granted you access to their information.

Simply bring up the info on any NPC or NPC organzation in the game. Go to the Standings tab. Right-click your corporation's standings on that list and "show composition". Everyone in your corporation, that effects that standing positive or negative, shows in that listing - sorted highest standing on down.

It only prevents you from just clicking an individual and seeing every NPC entity in the game that they have interacted with - you have to check each entity one at a time and that's a hell of a lot of groups/factions but far more realistic than just pulling up a standings tab to browse someone elses info for no other reason than invasion of their privacy.

If you need to know who impacts what - check that group and they will tell you.
Alexander Renoir
Covenant Trading Agency
#31 - 2011-12-13 14:07:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexander Renoir
Mocam wrote:

It's not needed. You can see how any person in your corporation effects your organizations standings by in-game tools.


-no standings push services possible (without api s*h*i*t)
I"m not sure what you mean by "push services".

-difficulties to set up high sec pos (no standing info about new players in corp)
Again - just bring up that faction's information -> right-click the standings for your corporation -> "Show Composition". This will show who has what standings that impact your corporation's standings.

-no "show off" of cool 10.0 faction and corp standings.
Put it in your bio if you want.


You failed to understand the real issue behind this.
You do not know, that this article ist NOT for Corp internal standings between the members of the same corp.
You do not know, what a standing push service is but you have a curious position about that? Roll
And your proposal to put the standings in the own BIO is just LOL. You think, that all details in a BIO are really 100% correct? No one would believe such crap in a BIO. Lol

Bring back the standingtab for all chars in EVE!
el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2011-12-13 14:21:44 UTC
Mocam wrote:
The only way I'd see this being enabled would be via costs such as an additional service from Locator Agents. Pay and you can get info. Even then, it would probably be limited to the faction of the locator agent.

Background checks on people aren't cheap and easy in real life or everyone would/could gain instant "top secret" security clearances but those cost.

-roleplay gets hard
-- it enables roleplaying even more. Unless you have information available from their joining your organization, you don't get mass info on them "easily" - that takes time and effort. As such, "strangers" can claim anything they like and you won't know until it's checked by a detail search.

The only way I could see it as RP style publishing is if they could LIE and forge what shows. THAT would be RP style. Like lying on a resume - they could put anything they want on there. (at which point, I'd also go with forging of employment history).

exactly my point. well put. +1.

there should be a cost to background info, also background info should be given within some margin of error, it should be hard to get.

check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like

Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#33 - 2011-12-13 14:36:07 UTC
el alasar wrote:
Mocam wrote:
The only way I'd see this being enabled would be via costs such as an additional service from Locator Agents. Pay and you can get info. Even then, it would probably be limited to the faction of the locator agent.

Background checks on people aren't cheap and easy in real life or everyone would/could gain instant "top secret" security clearances but those cost.

-roleplay gets hard
-- it enables roleplaying even more. Unless you have information available from their joining your organization, you don't get mass info on them "easily" - that takes time and effort. As such, "strangers" can claim anything they like and you won't know until it's checked by a detail search.

The only way I could see it as RP style publishing is if they could LIE and forge what shows. THAT would be RP style. Like lying on a resume - they could put anything they want on there. (at which point, I'd also go with forging of employment history).

exactly my point. well put. +1.

there should be a cost to background info, also background info should be given within some margin of error, it should be hard to get.


Than again for you El:
Further private informations are:
- Killmails + Fittings + NEW: Implants
- Employment History
- Finished Contracts
- All my (un)known Alts (you can easy find them through external websites)
- My Position in EVE (track someone down with the help of Locator Agents)
- ...

Make them cost much too or show the standings free like all the other informations above.Blink
Or remove this datas completely from EVE. No employment history; no locator agents, no killmails!
el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2011-12-13 15:06:07 UTC
Callidus Dux wrote:
Further private informations are:
- Killmails + Fittings + NEW: Implants
- Employment History
- Finished Contracts
- All my (un)known Alts (you can easy find them through external websites)
- My Position in EVE (track someone down with the help of Locator Agents)
- ...

Make them cost much too or show the standings free like all the other informations above.Blink
Or remove this datas completely from EVE. No employment history; no locator agents, no killmails!

valid point. "much" is up to balancing, but all things you listed (except KM, see below) should have a cost and effort associated with it. standings are (currently) rather specific to your pve life, and sadly imho currently not utilized for game mechanics to their full potential.

killmails would be a topic on its own. all parties involved get a KM, understandable. thus it is hard to keep KM private and probably also not wanted by CCP as they are accessible through API. even if it was not, people could post their KM and make things public.

check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like

Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2011-12-13 15:41:23 UTC
Alexander Renoir wrote:
Mocam wrote:

It's not needed. You can see how any person in your corporation effects your organizations standings by in-game tools.


-no standings push services possible (without api s*h*i*t)
I"m not sure what you mean by "push services".

-difficulties to set up high sec pos (no standing info about new players in corp)
Again - just bring up that faction's information -> right-click the standings for your corporation -> "Show Composition". This will show who has what standings that impact your corporation's standings.

-no "show off" of cool 10.0 faction and corp standings.
Put it in your bio if you want.


You failed to understand the real issue behind this.
You do not know, that this article ist NOT for Corp internal standings between the members of the same corp.
You do not know, what a standing push service is but you have a curious position about that? Roll
And your proposal to put the standings in the own BIO is just LOL. You think, that all details in a BIO are really 100% correct? No one would believe such crap in a BIO. Lol

Bring back the standingtab for all chars in EVE!


The "real issue"? You want freebie intel that should take effort to get. That is obvious and each of your "RP" and "POS" arguments were shot down one by one, leaving what as the only reason?

This data should be on a par with what trader is involved in which products at what market hubs. That data is possible to get too but it takes a good deal of digging.

Translation: If you haven't been granted access to the data by the account holder, get off your lazy butt and dig for it.

Such info SHOULD have costs/risks associated with obtaining it. You disagree and think it should be free and take no effort - others don't agree with you. You don't seem to be garnering much support for your "cause" so are on the losing side of the debate with zip spank for arguments beyond "gimmie!!!".

The "push service" - takes having the data come up on the client - if Eve central can't get this done any cleaner than they can, with the huge amount of people interested in that info, the only way you could would be via a UI automation bot.

That is what I was getting at. Your thin interest group would need to get the data to "push" and there are very few that will sit for hours browsing user information in-game to obtain that data - but an automated ".01 isk" style bot could fairly easily be modified across to do this - generating a huge amount of queries against the game server.

Bots are frowned upon and your reply, avoiding this ugly part of your request, hints strongly at botting the date for your motivation.

So feel free to laugh - I do, at your request.
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2011-12-13 16:20:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Callidus Dux
el alasar wrote:
Callidus Dux wrote:
Further private informations are:
- Killmails + Fittings + NEW: Implants
- Employment History
- Finished Contracts
- All my (un)known Alts (you can easy find them through external websites)
- My Position in EVE (track someone down with the help of Locator Agents)
- ...

Make them cost much too or show the standings free like all the other informations above.Blink
Or remove this datas completely from EVE. No employment history; no locator agents, no killmails!

valid point. "much" is up to balancing, but all things you listed (except KM, see below) should have a cost and effort associated with it. standings are (currently) rather specific to your pve life, and sadly imho currently not utilized for game mechanics to their full potential.

killmails would be a topic on its own. all parties involved get a KM, understandable. thus it is hard to keep KM private and probably also not wanted by CCP as they are accessible through API. even if it was not, people could post their KM and make things public.


Mocam wrote:

Translation: If you haven't been granted access to the data by the account holder, get off your lazy butt and dig for it.


I will repeat. Make it optional. Everyone should decide, if he /she wants to share this informations about the own standings. It seems, that everybody is fine with a solution of a OWN desicion, if I (for myself) want to show the standings or not. Make it like the certificates. But the DUMB deletion of an fundamental component of a former game play fits to the incapacity of some developers in EVE. The deletion was never wanted. But we have it.
This is the same sh!t that we have NOW with the "Automated Payment" of the alliance bill. Big smile Never wanted.. but we have to deal with it. Roll
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2011-12-13 16:56:03 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Callidus Dux wrote:
el alasar wrote:
Callidus Dux wrote:
Further private informations are:
- Killmails + Fittings + NEW: Implants
- Employment History
- Finished Contracts
- All my (un)known Alts (you can easy find them through external websites)
- My Position in EVE (track someone down with the help of Locator Agents)
- ...

Make them cost much too or show the standings free like all the other informations above.Blink
Or remove this datas completely from EVE. No employment history; no locator agents, no killmails!

valid point. "much" is up to balancing, but all things you listed (except KM, see below) should have a cost and effort associated with it. standings are (currently) rather specific to your pve life, and sadly imho currently not utilized for game mechanics to their full potential.

killmails would be a topic on its own. all parties involved get a KM, understandable. thus it is hard to keep KM private and probably also not wanted by CCP as they are accessible through API. even if it was not, people could post their KM and make things public.


Mocam wrote:

Translation: If you haven't been granted access to the data by the account holder, get off your lazy butt and dig for it.


I will repeat. Make it optional. Everyone should decide, if he /she wants to share this informations about the own standings. It seems, that everybody is fine with a solution of a OWN desicion, if I (for myself) want to show the standings or not. Make it like the certificates. But the DUMB deletion of an fundamental component of a former game play fits to the incapacity of some developers in EVE. The deletion was never wanted. But we have it.
This is the same sh!t that we have NOW with the "Automated Payment" of the alliance bill. Big smile Never wanted.. but we have to deal with it. Roll


Exactly. All those trolls just assume that everyone want to hide their standings, when in fact all my clients want it shown. Since api updates once every 3 hours, I pester them to check their standings. If I could check it myself, they wouldn't need to go through the annoyance of relogging their clients every so often just to update standings. It's re/tarded. Why shouldn't they be able to show their standings?

And yeah, it's an unwanted feature removal. Nobody whined about standings being shown before. It wasn't even an issue. Now, suddenly it's this whole stink about virtual privacy of internet spaceships. Are you serious?Roll

Btw, shameless advertisement:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454
el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2011-12-13 23:22:35 UTC
sorry, i ignored that part. making it optional, so you can decide yourself, if you want stuff public, would be perfectly fine with me.

check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like

sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2011-12-15 14:13:33 UTC
+1
Goose99
#40 - 2011-12-15 22:15:59 UTC
With the latest patch, your own standings no longer update unless you relog. The bug was recently fixed with Crucible too, now it's unfixed. Lol.