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CCP messes up apparel traders (A riches to rags, rags to riches story)
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Gregory Brunswick
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-06-26 12:18:27 UTC
It happens. I lost billions in inferno patch after ccp increased meta 4 items after they said there would be no such increase (and have yet to have confirm the increase)
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#22 - 2012-06-26 13:35:14 UTC
Quote:


Your group used Forex-alike strategies and price went your way for a while, then it came back against you in the form of some annoyed CCP personnel. You may still get out with your full stuff but you could also lose it all plus the additional confiscated stuff.

You are incapable of recognizing jokes, aren't you?

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Captain IQ
Innocent Traders Ltd
#23 - 2012-06-26 13:51:32 UTC
Vaerah Vain wrote:

Patches create a lot of shocks, they are akin to RL trading "news releases". All the smart traders close any positions 10 minutes before to 10 minutes past those news. The others usually are left holding the a very short, lighted match.



It’s ok for trading in Eve to sometimes fall foul of CCP tweaks "news releases", if it was too predictable then the rewards wouldn’t be so great but a direct devaluation of any item without any warning or reason shouldn’t be ignored especially if you’re more speculator than trader, we're as much an in-game profession as anyone else.

Thanks but I’d rather my hard earned ISK wasn’t washed away down one of CCP’s ISK Sinks or clumsily thought out patches.
Tom Hagen
Twilight Empire
#24 - 2012-06-26 14:07:20 UTC
And what do people believe would happen to your hard earned ISK if CCP went out and said that they are planning to make changes that will severely devalue your goods?

It would be the exact same effect, but maybe some one else would read the patch note first and cash in, but someone would be stuck with the bill...

I happen to sit on a few thousand modules that currently goes for around a million, if CCP said that they gonna make changes that would make them worth half or a third of its current value. I would panic sell to buy orders, if I was first otherwise someone else would sell to my buy order.
It's sucks to be that guy. But its a part of the game and sorry to say not CCP's fault. Unless they decide to not change anything anymore to EVE this will happen again.

Don't invest what you cant afford to lose!
GreenSeed
#25 - 2012-06-26 14:57:08 UTC
corestwo wrote:
Kara Books wrote:
I had a gut feeling about the NEX store when it opened up, Now it seems like their bringing down the prices to actually realistic levels, perhaps items will start selling now, perhaps their paving the way to micro transactions when our guard is down.

Perhaps I should keep my trap shut and not be the first.. but whatever still just a game at the end of the day.


No one who was outraged about Incarna was outraged about microtransactions, they were outraged at the possibility of microtransactions for any sort of "play to win" scenario - "gold ammo" or what have you.

So basically who cares if they bring in other microtransactions, so long as they're limited to cosmetic **** only.

Exactly, the original prices were outrageous, and we all knew they would eventually adjust them (the devblog on incarna actually explained that they would revisit the prices)

I hope they continue to add more cosmetic crap; it’s fun to buy so long the price tag isn’t stupid. Clothes, paintjobs, decals, it’s all good.

But personally, before continuing to add stuff they should add the cosmetic add-ons to killmails and podmails.
Vaerah Vain
#26 - 2012-06-26 16:39:40 UTC
corestwo wrote:
Quote:


Your group used Forex-alike strategies and price went your way for a while, then it came back against you in the form of some annoyed CCP personnel. You may still get out with your full stuff but you could also lose it all plus the additional confiscated stuff.

You are incapable of recognizing jokes, aren't you?


If you would write them in my native tongue I would. Else I don't recognize them, sorry.
Vaerah Vain
#27 - 2012-06-26 16:42:06 UTC
Captain IQ wrote:
but a direct devaluation of any item without any warning or reason shouldn’t be ignored especially if you’re more speculator than trader, we're as much an in-game profession as anyone else.

Thanks but I’d rather my hard earned ISK wasn’t washed away down one of CCP’s ISK Sinks or clumsily thought out patches.


Speculators are those who willingly put themselves at huge risk for great rewards.
Speculators are supposed to take nasty hits along with the big opportunities. Else they would not be speculators to begin with.
lafforet
Amarr Royal Trust Bank
#28 - 2012-06-26 22:38:30 UTC
When you read this in dev blog: "Existing items from before June 19th will remain in the store, for now, at the current prices so that we don’t devalue the investment that some players have already made." you would expect that at least after Inferno 1.1. investments in clothing are safe. Well, it was not exactly true.

I personaly did not invest anything in clothing, but I bought some more expensive clothing and I will never buy that stuff again.
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#29 - 2012-06-27 06:54:27 UTC
lafforet wrote:
When you read this in dev blog: "Existing items from before June 19th will remain in the store, for now, at the current prices so that we don’t devalue the investment that some players have already made." you would expect that at least after Inferno 1.1. investments in clothing are safe. Well, it was not exactly true.

No you wouldn't.

Read the statement carefully, then you'll realize why dumping Ishukone cloths would be the first thing any sane investor would do after reading the dev blog.

Nyan
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-06-27 14:25:24 UTC
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
lafforet wrote:
When you read this in dev blog: "Existing items from before June 19th will remain in the store, for now, at the current prices so that we don’t devalue the investment that some players have already made." you would expect that at least after Inferno 1.1. investments in clothing are safe. Well, it was not exactly true.

No you wouldn't.

Read the statement carefully, then you'll realize why dumping Ishukone cloths would be the first thing any sane investor would do after reading the dev blog.


...? I can't see anything that would be a good signal to dump Ishukone clothes except for the two words: "for now".

You should explain it to us.

.
Sun Win
#31 - 2012-06-27 14:41:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Sun Win
Private Pineapple wrote:
...? I can't see anything that would be a good signal to dump Ishukone clothes except for the two words: "for now".

You should explain it to us.


New emphasis added:

lafforet wrote:
When you read this in dev blog: "Existing items from before June 19th will remain in the store, for now, at the current prices so that we don’t devalue the investment that some players have already made." you would expect that at least after Inferno 1.1. investments in clothing are safe. Well, it was not exactly true..


The items that were added were not in the store yet. No promises were made about those.

To be fair, I don't think I would have caught that subtlety either, but I wasn't invested in clothes, so I had no particular reason to be playing close attention.
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-06-27 19:37:41 UTC
corestwo wrote:
Kara Books wrote:
I had a gut feeling about the NEX store when it opened up, Now it seems like their bringing down the prices to actually realistic levels, perhaps items will start selling now, perhaps their paving the way to micro transactions when our guard is down.

Perhaps I should keep my trap shut and not be the first.. but whatever still just a game at the end of the day.


No one who was outraged about Incarna was outraged about microtransactions, they were outraged at the possibility of microtransactions for any sort of "play to win" scenario - "gold ammo" or what have you.

So basically who cares if they bring in other microtransactions, so long as they're limited to cosmetic **** only.


I did, because it was a crappy feature for anyone that doesn't play 'dress up your avatar' and expected much more from an expansion. But indeed, most of the fuss was about 'pay to win' wich is even worse than the space dollhouse they implemented. God knows what CCP had in mind and how worse it would be today if it were not for the player protests.
GreenSeed
#33 - 2012-06-28 01:55:32 UTC
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:
corestwo wrote:
Kara Books wrote:
I had a gut feeling about the NEX store when it opened up, Now it seems like their bringing down the prices to actually realistic levels, perhaps items will start selling now, perhaps their paving the way to micro transactions when our guard is down.

Perhaps I should keep my trap shut and not be the first.. but whatever still just a game at the end of the day.


No one who was outraged about Incarna was outraged about microtransactions, they were outraged at the possibility of microtransactions for any sort of "play to win" scenario - "gold ammo" or what have you.

So basically who cares if they bring in other microtransactions, so long as they're limited to cosmetic **** only.


I did, because it was a crappy feature for anyone that doesn't play 'dress up your avatar' and expected much more from an expansion. But indeed, most of the fuss was about 'pay to win' wich is even worse than the space dollhouse they implemented. God knows what CCP had in mind and how worse it would be today if it were not for the player protests.

If its a dollhouse you can blow up.

Then it’s a man’s dollhouse i say.
Captain IQ
Innocent Traders Ltd
#34 - 2012-06-28 09:22:34 UTC
Well with the total removal of the shirt from the NeX store (the easiest quick fix) CCP have gone some way to repairing the damage and restoring the integrity of the stores concept and any linked future promotions. Personally I'm happy about that but I still feel sorry for rarity collectors and a little for the speculators, though as Vareah mentions it's comes with being a speculator.


Rarity collectors are an odd bunch but make great cash cows for CCP and us traders, I think a further 'tweak' to keep them happy wouldn't be a bad thing, maybe put something daft like an extra button on the cuffs for the prepatched version! Blink
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#35 - 2012-06-28 11:12:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Rakshasa Taisab
Sun Win wrote:
New emphasis added:

lafforet wrote:
When you read this in dev blog: "Existing items from before June 19th will remain in the store, for now, at the current prices so that we don’t devalue the investment that some players have already made." you would expect that at least after Inferno 1.1. investments in clothing are safe. Well, it was not exactly true..


The items that were added were not in the store yet. No promises were made about those.

To be fair, I don't think I would have caught that subtlety either, but I wasn't invested in clothes, so I had no particular reason to be playing close attention.

Am I that weird for having caught that part at the time of the devblog?

This seems to be a recurring phenomena; things that seem to be clearly stated in e.g. devblogs, etc, gets interpreted in wildly different ways that in no way follows from what was written.

Really, it's not a subtle difference; it clearly says what items are not changing their price and doesn't say anything about non-NEX stuff.

Nyan
lafforet
Amarr Royal Trust Bank
#36 - 2012-06-28 11:44:02 UTC
lafforet wrote:
When you read this in dev blog: "Existing items from before June 19th will remain in the store, for now, at the current prices so that we don’t devalue the investment that some players have already made." you would expect that at least after Inferno 1.1. investments in clothing are safe. Well, it was not exactly true.

I personaly did not invest anything in clothing, but I bought some more expensive clothing and I will never buy that stuff again.


I will repeat the same, just in other words. When I read this "Existing items from before June 19th will remain in the store, for now, at the current prices so that we don’t devalue the investment that some players have already made.", I make conclusion that CCP is willing not devaluate investment in clothing.
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#37 - 2012-06-28 11:47:26 UTC
lafforet wrote:
lafforet wrote:
When you read this in dev blog: "Existing items from before June 19th will remain in the store, for now, at the current prices so that we don’t devalue the investment that some players have already made." you would expect that at least after Inferno 1.1. investments in clothing are safe. Well, it was not exactly true.

I personaly did not invest anything in clothing, but I bought some more expensive clothing and I will never buy that stuff again.


I will repeat the same, just in other words. When I read this "Existing items from before June 19th will remain in the store, for now, at the current prices so that we don’t devalue the investment that some players have already made.", I make conclusion that CCP is willing not devaluate investment in clothing.

It's selective reading like that that will lose you billions of ISK.

Nyan
Lord Jita
Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp
#38 - 2012-06-28 15:37:42 UTC
lafforet wrote:
lafforet wrote:
"Existing items from before June 19th will remain in the store, for now, at the current prices so that we don’t devalue the investment that some players have already made." you would expect that at least after Inferno 1.1. investments in clothing are safe. Well, it was not exactly true.

I personaly did not invest anything in clothing, but I bought some more expensive clothing and I will never buy that stuff again.


I will repeat the same, just in other words. When I read this "Existing items from before June 19th will remain in the store, for now, at the current prices so that we don’t devalue the investment that some players have already made.", I make conclusion that CCP is willing not devaluate investment in clothing.


Key words there: EXISTING ITEMS .... IN THE STORE.
The Ishkuone shirt was not IN the store before June 19th so.... My question is: was it shown on Sisi to be in the store? In that case anyone losing isk has only themself to blame for not checking.
The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2012-06-28 17:00:14 UTC
Tom Hagen wrote:
And what do people believe would happen to your hard earned ISK if CCP went out and said that they are planning to make changes that will severely devalue your goods?

It would be the exact same effect, but maybe some one else would read the patch note first and cash in, but someone would be stuck with the bill...

I happen to sit on a few thousand modules that currently goes for around a million, if CCP said that they gonna make changes that would make them worth half or a third of its current value. I would panic sell to buy orders, if I was first otherwise someone else would sell to my buy order.
It's sucks to be that guy. But its a part of the game and sorry to say not CCP's fault. Unless they decide to not change anything anymore to EVE this will happen again.

Don't invest what you cant afford to lose!


You assume that all those who took the "leap of faith" and invested heavily in the apparel industry are fools. Since you claim that CCP already provided us with the possibility of intentional devaluation of the current existing apparels in this "miraculous patch note," could you do us the honor by providing us with the specific links where CCP made such claims? You will note that you won't find any. Why? It's because you are just making up your stories as you go. Before you lecture us about our failure in performing due diligence and keeping up to date on the "patch notes," you should do your homework first.
The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-06-28 17:03:04 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
corestwo wrote:
Kara Books wrote:
I had a gut feeling about the NEX store when it opened up, Now it seems like their bringing down the prices to actually realistic levels, perhaps items will start selling now, perhaps their paving the way to micro transactions when our guard is down.

Perhaps I should keep my trap shut and not be the first.. but whatever still just a game at the end of the day.


No one who was outraged about Incarna was outraged about microtransactions, they were outraged at the possibility of microtransactions for any sort of "play to win" scenario - "gold ammo" or what have you.

So basically who cares if they bring in other microtransactions, so long as they're limited to cosmetic **** only.

Exactly, the original prices were outrageous, and we all knew they would eventually adjust them (the devblog on incarna actually explained that they would revisit the prices)

I hope they continue to add more cosmetic crap; it’s fun to buy so long the price tag isn’t stupid. Clothes, paintjobs, decals, it’s all good.

But personally, before continuing to add stuff they should add the cosmetic add-ons to killmails and podmails.



You have valid points and even I agree that the initial pricing on the original apparels were outrageously high. Nevertheless, there are hundreds of "investors" who heavily invested in these new clothing and the act of intentionally devaluing the existing items just to entice more folks to purchase, does great injustice to the original investors. CCP should have accounted for the existing items' history/rarity before deciding to devalue everything to price of feces.
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