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Goonswarm impoverishes the Minmatar Republic

Author
snake driver
Ningishzida Research and Enterprises
#21 - 2012-06-24 19:49:14 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Back on topic!

Meradeth, I believe you misunderstand the situation.

The Right-Honourable GoonSwarm Federation of Space Planets actually enriched the militia forces by purchasing items from the quartermasters with loyalty points and InterStellar Kredits. The massive fortunes that were made by certain capsuleers of the GoonWaffe Corporation came from other capsuleers who bought those goods from said GoonWaffe Corporation pilots. What exactly is it that has been done wrong here?


For representing an organization that's quite good at economics, you're really terrible. You found a way to get the TLF to give you tons of loyalty points for doing roughly nothing. You then swapped those for goods, and sold the goods.

You essentially played middle man for the republic to sell its goods to the capsuleer market. The fact that you made so much money doing so means that someone got screwed - specifically, the Republic, giving you valuable goods for next to nothing.

I understand that you are here for propaganda purposes, but even this is a bit of a stretch, unless you're taking pages from Jade's book. I wouldn't advise that, she's better at bullshit than you are.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-06-25 01:30:35 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Alright you two. This conversation is best left to other cesspools ((forums)), where it has already been tiredly debated for the past month. We don't need it here in another context.

In short, get back on topic.

I took Ms. Constantine's silence as a sure sign that she'd taken her ball and gone home.

So far as I can see, that particular branch of the conversation has been pruned.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-06-25 01:31:19 UTC
snake driver wrote:

I understand that you are here for propaganda purposes

Then you misunderstand me entirely.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-06-25 01:36:09 UTC
Merdaneth wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
The Right-Honourable GoonSwarm Federation of Space Planets actually enriched the militia forces by purchasing items from the quartermasters with loyalty points and InterStellar Kredits. The massive fortunes that were made by certain capsuleers of the GoonWaffe Corporation came from other capsuleers who bought those goods from said GoonWaffe Corporation pilots. What exactly is it that has been done wrong here?


Ms. Nairn, please do not insult my intelligence nor your own.

You are perfectly aware of the concept of opportunity cost. These goods could have been sold by the Republic to capsuleers for trillions of isk extra profit too. The Republic offers them at a discount for people who show loyalty to their aims, in hopes that the good purchased with these discounts will be used to further the goals of the Republic.

I'm quite sure this doesn't apply at all to the concerned capsuleers, who I firmly believe have no shred of loyalty for the Republic or the Amarr Empire.

I have a concept of opportunity cost, this is true; however, I also have a detached view of what happened.

You speak of the "goals of the Republic" which should have been advanced. They were. If you check the maps, you will notice that the TLF gained significantly entrenched positions as a result of the efforts taken by GoonWaffe Corporation pilots. That the efforts were taken in the pursuit of personal greed rather than out of patriotic duty to the Republic is no more a valid accusation against the GoonWaffe Corporation pilots responsible than it is against any civilian weapons manufacturer, any freelance mercenary enlisted to the cause, or any turn-coat lured by promises of a better life. If your offense is drawn from the motivations of the people involved, then that is an entirely separate argument. You cannot win an argument against the results of actions, since those actions greatly favoured the Republic cause insomuch as the TLF enjoyed massive gains without precedent.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#25 - 2012-06-25 04:23:02 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
[...] the Right-Honourable GoonSwarm Federation of Space Planets, and by extension the Clusterfuck Coalition of Space Friends [...]
Loving Regards,
Lyris ♥ Nairn


I love it when walking garbage has delusions of class, don't you?

You're not funny anymore, Lyris.

Shut it.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-06-25 04:43:52 UTC
I suppose we're both lucky that I'm not here to entertain you.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-06-25 05:49:31 UTC
Unbelievable.

The Republic is already focusing too much of it's resources into the war. The willingness to give away trillions as an incentive without investigation demonstrates this more than ever.

But of course I expect that those of my kin with unyielding support for the Republic will point fingers at the Goonswarm Federation and willfully ignore the sheer absurdity of the situation.

I'd say more, but frankly I feel sick.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-06-25 06:28:08 UTC
Yes, it truly is a shame that people are able to profit by the stupidity of others.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Los Muertas
HDYLTA
#29 - 2012-06-25 07:10:38 UTC
This is just another case of GOON's WAIAFU, working as intended all funyunned up. GOON is perhaps the most disgusting of entities, capitalists taking advantage of opportunities, making the most of any situation and being good at seizing the day....ugly ugly people. Actually, when I put it like that, they seem more like businessmen who made our nations great and then became demonized for being successful.
Bradly Shepard
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-06-25 07:53:58 UTC
The funny thing is, that others were doing this too. Not the the degree of the Gomnswarm Federation but still were doing it. Even the glorious and honourable Jade admitted to it in which she boasted she stole 8.7billion from the TLF.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-06-25 08:05:17 UTC
No but you see GOONS ARE BAD because

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#32 - 2012-06-25 10:21:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
I have no doubt that these events will put a degree of economic strain on the Republic.

And yet will the Shakorite leadership or the Elders bear any of that strain? I doubt it very much. They consider themselves far too important to pay any of the cost of their insane war of aggression.

No, it will be the commoners who will suffer. They are already impoverished and things will only get worse for them if they remain in the Republic. The squalor will only get worse for them.

But there is another way.

Should any of them wish to take advantage of the SPCS' largesse, I will happily arrange an escort for them. At the SPCS they will be provided with food, shelter and the chance of a meaningful existence as well as a number of suitable leisure activities.

Remember: it's fun to stay at the SPCS.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#33 - 2012-06-25 10:37:27 UTC
Bradly Shepard wrote:
The funny thing is, that others were doing this too. Not the the degree of the Gomnswarm Federation but still were doing it. Even the glorious and honourable Jade admitted to it in which she boasted she stole 8.7billion from the TLF.


My understanding is that Jade's philosophy requires an end to all of the major governments. So it would hardly be a surprise if she had been involved in an underhanded attempt to crash the economy of one of them.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-06-25 11:37:04 UTC
It's true that the Republic is fraught with corruption on the higher levels and the common man and woman will suffer.

I only wish that more would see it for what it were.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-06-25 12:09:39 UTC
Admiral Blake, you inspire me.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#36 - 2012-06-25 13:31:59 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Bradly Shepard wrote:
The funny thing is, that others were doing this too. Not the the degree of the Gomnswarm Federation but still were doing it. Even the glorious and honourable Jade admitted to it in which she boasted she stole 8.7billion from the TLF.


My understanding is that Jade's philosophy requires an end to all of the major governments. So it would hardly be a surprise if she had been involved in an underhanded attempt to crash the economy of one of them.


That level of rhetoric is certainly up there to your usual standard Blake. In this case however I can only claim responsibility for taking my share of payment (alongside several hundred other Militia auxillaries) for services apparently rendered to the Matari state. While I greatly enjoyed the opportunity to eliminate thousands of Amarrian Imperialist vessels and play a role in the liberation of dozens of systems from the yoke of slavery (and in the past have paid top isk to concord for the wardecs to enable) - it has been a definite eye-opener to be compensated so effectively for my time on this occasion .

The 8.7b isk that Goons mention was the value in Fleet Stabbers, Fleet Tempests and misc. equipment I selected from the Tribal Liberation store in return for services rendered. I hardly see this as "theft." And the bulk of this material will continue to be used against Amarrian interests in the warzone so I'm not sure the Republic has much to complain about on this occassion.

That a great many anti-amarrian fighters have received a similar "victory boon" since the warzone turned around and the 24th Crusade have been pressed to the limits of their remaining territory is a good thing for the liberation of the Matari people.

Perhaps the greatest irony yet to come is the rumoured investigations ongoing into goonswarm manipulations of the capsuleer markets that may yet conclude in removal of gains and punitive sanctions against that organization specifically - while doubtless allowing the heroic matari freedom-fighters of the TLF to continue enjoying their (well earned) current material advantage against the slavers.

If it turns out that Goonswarm (however inadvertently) managed to deliver cheap Fleet Stabbers into the hands of the heroes of the Matari people then perhaps they might have achieved one act worthy of the name in their history.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-06-25 13:49:21 UTC
No, Ms. Constantine, you've got it all wrong.

The goons are bad, because

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#38 - 2012-06-25 14:21:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Jade Constantine wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Bradly Shepard wrote:
The funny thing is, that others were doing this too. Not the the degree of the Gomnswarm Federation but still were doing it. Even the glorious and honourable Jade admitted to it in which she boasted she stole 8.7billion from the TLF.


My understanding is that Jade's philosophy requires an end to all of the major governments. So it would hardly be a surprise if she had been involved in an underhanded attempt to crash the economy of one of them.


That level of rhetoric is certainly up there to your usual standard Blake. In this case however I can only claim responsibility for taking my share of payment (alongside several hundred other Militia auxillaries) for services apparently rendered to the Matari state.


So you really were working directly for the Matari State and not trying to bring them down from within? What a long way you've come.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#39 - 2012-06-25 14:37:55 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:

The goons are bad, because


... their stated intention is to 'ruin New Eden for everyone else'?

Katrina Oniseki

Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#40 - 2012-06-25 14:57:43 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Jade Constantine—

If you and yours wish to fight the Right-Honourable GoonSwarm Federation of Space Planets in a CONCORD-sanctioned war in High-Security space, then why don't you and your coalition members simply join into a single capsuleer alliance? Doing so would allow you to pay a greatly reduced war fee.

On the other hand, if you wish to actually wage a meaningful war against the Right-Honourable GoonSwarm Federation of Space Planets, and by extension the Clusterfuck Coalition of Space Friends, then why don't you simply get a bunch of people in fleet and make your way towards our Sovereignty claims? I promise you, should your force make a direct attack against any of our Sovereignty infrastructure, the blind eyes presently paying you little mind would suddenly open, and you would be given opportunity to participate in as grand a campaign as your wallet, and your morale, could fund.

I would be the first to congratulate you on any victory you gain against our Sovereignty.

Loving Regards,
Lyris ♥ Nairn


I agree with this statement.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ![/u]

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