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How is this an exploit when insurance fruad was not?

Author
MagicAcid
Nullbear Tear Extractors
Hostile Intervention
#1 - 2012-06-23 18:08:47 UTC  |  Edited by: MagicAcid
I made 10s of Billions of isk by taking nearly a Trillion isk worth of Battleships and committing suicide by Concord in the Tennen system. You can see the 2-3 months of increased losses in one of the Economic newsletters since my losses counted as player losses :)

This is the exact same thing the Gooons were doing, they were taking advantage of CCP sucking at pricing things properly. In both cases it was due to CCP trying to force everyone to use a certain price and at the same time CCP was entering the market as an NPC with a bottomless wallet. Why can't CCP just stop with all this crap where they use their infinite money supply as part of a broken game mechanic.

I do not see how what the Goons did is an exploit, and what I did is not. I even asked the GMs before doing massive insurance fraud and they were kind of annoyed I would even bother to ask about something so obviously allowed.

Does anyone see something I am missing?

Is EvE a different game now where this kind of "winning" the game is no longer tolerated?
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-06-23 18:22:44 UTC
So if you purchase a battleship then pay for the Plat insurance and self destruct it.
You get back more then the cost of the insurance + the cost of the battleship ?


Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-06-23 18:24:23 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
So if you purchase a battleship then pay for the Plat insurance and self destruct it.
You get back more then the cost of the insurance + the cost of the battleship ?




He's talking complete ****. You could make a few million at most from each ship you did this with when the ship price was crap, but in order to make tens of billions you'd have to do this thousands of times!

For this reason I say this guy is talking out of his RollRollRoll
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-06-23 18:29:22 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
So if you purchase a battleship then pay for the Plat insurance and self destruct it.
You get back more then the cost of the insurance + the cost of the battleship ?




No. It used to be like that, because the value of minerals dropped too low. Insurance cost at the time was based on ancient mineral values and that difference between the values made building ships for self destruction profitable. This was stupid, so CCP fixed it.
Nyreanya
Serenity Labs
#5 - 2012-06-23 18:42:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyreanya
MagicAcid wrote:
Does anyone see something I am missing?
Insurance fraud made a handful of people a handful of ISK.
LP manipulation made a smaller handful of people huge mountains of ISK.
Both have now been fixed...what's the big deal?
MagicAcid wrote:
Is EvE a different game now where this kind of "winning" the game is no longer tolerated?
If by "winning" you mean making massive loads of ISK of NPCs, then yes. Making massive loads of ISK off players is as encouraged as ever.

[/sarcasm]

MagicAcid
Nullbear Tear Extractors
Hostile Intervention
#6 - 2012-06-23 18:42:29 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
So if you purchase a battleship then pay for the Plat insurance and self destruct it.
You get back more then the cost of the insurance + the cost of the battleship ?




He's talking complete ****. You could make a few million at most from each ship you did this with when the ship price was crap, but in order to make tens of billions you'd have to do this thousands of times!

For this reason I say this guy is talking out of his RollRollRoll


http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/QEN/QEN_Q3-2010.pdf
Page 35 and 36
(on page 36 look at how The Citadel has the most losses)
Here is my add for minerals:
http://www.bsacse.amxg4.com/classifieds/index.php?id=magic

I had 40 manufacturing slots at the time and kept them building 24/7 for months, along with multiple alts to do the ship destruction and salvaging.

I hope to do this again some day, even if I don't make too much isk.
Ghost Xray
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-06-23 18:50:07 UTC
Roll

You should turn yourself into the proper authorities. And by that, I mean biomass all of your characters.

Is this the attention you wanted?
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-06-23 18:53:52 UTC
I just want to let you know... IBTL.
Lexmana
#9 - 2012-06-23 18:54:33 UTC
Who said insurance fraud was not an exploit?
Fix Lag
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-06-23 18:56:03 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Who said insurance fraud was not an exploit?


Who said it was?

CCP mostly sucks at their job, but Veritas is a pretty cool dude.

Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-06-23 18:57:05 UTC
MagicAcid wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
So if you purchase a battleship then pay for the Plat insurance and self destruct it.
You get back more then the cost of the insurance + the cost of the battleship ?




He's talking complete ****. You could make a few million at most from each ship you did this with when the ship price was crap, but in order to make tens of billions you'd have to do this thousands of times!

For this reason I say this guy is talking out of his RollRollRoll


http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/QEN/QEN_Q3-2010.pdf
Page 35 and 36
(on page 36 look at how The Citadel has the most losses)
Here is my add for minerals:
http://www.bsacse.amxg4.com/classifieds/index.php?id=magic

I had 40 manufacturing slots at the time and kept them building 24/7 for months, along with multiple alts to do the ship destruction and salvaging.

I hope to do this again some day, even if I don't make too much isk.


The reason why many people weren't that upset about it was, that it wasn't that competative way to earn money compared to the effort it took. Mostly it just ensured, that it was a bad idea to sell your ships, since it was more efficient to just destroy them yourself instead of letting them rot on the market or play the 0.1 isk games. I did it a few times and calculated what I'd earn, if I did it on a constant basis. It would have been far less then in normal gameplay, required a lot of managing to do on that scale and was extremely boring to do. It was propably a great thing for a dedicated producer with alts, but for the majority it was a meh income source at best.
Lexmana
#12 - 2012-06-23 18:59:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Fix Lag wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Who said insurance fraud was not an exploit?


Who said it was?


I did. Maybe we should look at some definitions. The one below is from wikipedia. And just to clarify, banhammer or confiscation etc. does not define an exploit.

Quote:
An exploit (from the verb to exploit, in the meaning of using something to one’s own advantage) is a piece of software, a chunk of data, or sequence of commands that takes advantage of a bug, glitch or vulnerability in order to cause unintended or unanticipated behaviour to occur on computer software, hardware, or something electronic (usually computerised).
Tear Miner
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-06-23 19:01:13 UTC
u mad bro?

It's an exploit, get over it and go do something productive.
Fix Lag
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-06-23 19:03:58 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Fix Lag wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Who said insurance fraud was not an exploit?


Who said it was?


I did. Maybe we should look at some definitions. The one below is from wikipedai. And just to clarify, banhammer or confiscation etc. does not define an exploit.

Quote:
An exploit (from the verb to exploit, in the meaning of using something to one’s own advantage) is a piece of software, a chunk of data, or sequence of commands that takes advantage of a bug, glitch or vulnerability in order to cause unintended or unanticipated behaviour to occur on computer software, hardware, or something electronic (usually computerised).


I guess we should just ban unanticipated behavior and making money in Eve. Clearly doing any of that is an illegal exploit.

CCP did not determine insurance fraud an exploit, ever, as they never banned, removed assets from, or otherwise punished individuals who profited on a vast scale from the insurance mechanic. They never said it was an exploit, in any way, shape, or form. Therefore, it was not an exploit.

CCP mostly sucks at their job, but Veritas is a pretty cool dude.

MagicAcid
Nullbear Tear Extractors
Hostile Intervention
#15 - 2012-06-23 19:04:24 UTC
Tear Miner wrote:
u mad bro?

It's an exploit, get over it and go do something productive.


Why would I do something productive when I can do something destructive?

MagicAcid
Nullbear Tear Extractors
Hostile Intervention
#16 - 2012-06-23 19:05:35 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Who said insurance fraud was not an exploit?


CCP said so when I asked :)

Learn to read!
Fix Lag
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-06-23 19:07:36 UTC
MagicAcid wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Who said insurance fraud was not an exploit?


CCP said so when I asked :)

Learn to read!


That's funny, I don't recall them taking your stuff over it. Also, please dig up where they called it an illegal, punishable exploit.

CCP mostly sucks at their job, but Veritas is a pretty cool dude.

Fix Lag
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-06-23 19:08:26 UTC
Also I don't believe you as the person who actually made billions of ISK from this got banned for RMT several months afterwards but let's continue the exercise for the sake of posterity

CCP mostly sucks at their job, but Veritas is a pretty cool dude.

Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-06-23 19:08:57 UTC
MagicAcid wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
So if you purchase a battleship then pay for the Plat insurance and self destruct it.
You get back more then the cost of the insurance + the cost of the battleship ?




He's talking complete ****. You could make a few million at most from each ship you did this with when the ship price was crap, but in order to make tens of billions you'd have to do this thousands of times!

For this reason I say this guy is talking out of his RollRollRoll


http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/QEN/QEN_Q3-2010.pdf
Page 35 and 36
(on page 36 look at how The Citadel has the most losses)
Here is my add for minerals:
http://www.bsacse.amxg4.com/classifieds/index.php?id=magic

I had 40 manufacturing slots at the time and kept them building 24/7 for months, along with multiple alts to do the ship destruction and salvaging.

I hope to do this again some day, even if I don't make too much isk.


Well the RollRollRollRoll done. You made a small amount of ISK and the fact that you went into it with 40 manufacturing slots working 24/7 demonstrates beyond any reasonable doubt that you are a complete **** moron!
Lexmana
#20 - 2012-06-23 19:10:06 UTC
Fix Lag wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Fix Lag wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Who said insurance fraud was not an exploit?


Who said it was?


I did. Maybe we should look at some definitions. The one below is from wikipedai. And just to clarify, banhammer or confiscation etc. does not define an exploit.

Quote:
An exploit (from the verb to exploit, in the meaning of using something to one’s own advantage) is a piece of software, a chunk of data, or sequence of commands that takes advantage of a bug, glitch or vulnerability in order to cause unintended or unanticipated behaviour to occur on computer software, hardware, or something electronic (usually computerised).


I guess we should just ban unanticipated behavior and making money in Eve. Clearly doing any of that is an illegal exploit.

CCP did not determine insurance fraud an exploit, ever, as they never banned, removed assets from, or otherwise punished individuals who profited on a vast scale from the insurance mechanic. They never said it was an exploit, in any way, shape, or form. Therefore, it was not an exploit.


So, you have your own definition of exploit then? Because your definition does not seem to be compatible with wikipedias.

As I already said above, you don't have to ban players for using an exploit. It can sometimes be tolerated for various reasons. But lets call things for what they are.
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