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Exploration in hi-sec space for a new player

Author
Jupek Faithflame
Storm Vulture
#41 - 2011-09-26 19:30:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jupek Faithflame
Fabulous Virgil wrote:
you already got the caracal fitting posted here, why aren't you using that


I know my english is not good but I have tried to point out that I don't have enough ISK to buy Caracal or Cormorant setups currently and definetly I don't have enough ISK to loose those setups. So no point to buy something if you can't afford to fly with it...right?

But I want to thank you for those setups. Those seems good fine for me and Caracal fit is near what I have planned with my skill training and those propably will be usefully in a future.

Fabulous Virgil wrote:
a scanning frigate is an overkill with your skills


Really? I thought my skills are too low or scanning strength is not enough for this yet.

Fabulous Virgil wrote:


  • the general things are, don't mix tanks
  • use proper drones, mixing em and explosive drones makes absoultely no sense


What you mean with "Don't mix tank"? Could you or someone explain?
Why you say that Warrior and Valkyrie drones makes no sense?

Fabulous Virgil wrote:
4 light drones make more dps than 1medium+2 on paper and in game


Yes...they makes little more dps according EFT. I had no idea if thats true in a game, but what I know medium drones has more defence at least.

Fabulous Virgil wrote:
caracal's not bad, but get some support skills in missiles


What you suggest?
Sam Redshift
PCG Enterprises
#42 - 2011-09-26 20:35:58 UTC
Jupek Faithflame wrote:

Fabulous Virgil wrote:
caracal's not bad, but get some support skills in missiles


What you suggest?


If you have not trained some missile skills at all, I suggest you check out the certificate planner.

For the starter go with
Missile control basic
Frigate or cruiser launcher control basic
(depends on what you are flying)

later if you have time for more training go for ...
missile control standard

if you are looking for good skill sets to train for different tasks, I always suggest to check the certificate planner. It provides a very good overview about groups of skills required for different tasks and how they relate to each other.

I find it very helpful.

Cheers, Sam
Fabulous Virgil
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2011-09-26 20:57:45 UTC
don't mix active and passive tank in pve, also don't mix shield tank with armor tank, about mixing drones, with sizes it's not so bad, but why would you use explosive and em drones at the same time, it doesn't make much sense, just pick 1 damage type that's best against the rats you'll be shooting, drone defense doesn't matter, just don't launch them untill you get all the enemy ships on you, small drones have better tracking and speed, they're better if you don't sacrifice dps, and you don't

if you want to train missile suport skills, just go to market and in the skills tab, there you have every missile skill, browse through them and train those that help you, like increasing missile flight time, missile damage or launcher rate of fire
Jupek Faithflame
Storm Vulture
#44 - 2011-09-27 05:05:35 UTC
Fabulous Virgil wrote:
don't mix active and passive tank in pve, also don't mix shield tank with armor tank


I missed a memo for this. Why this is bad?

Fabulous Virgil wrote:
but why would you use explosive and em drones at the same time


Agreed that was pointless. Those were just place holders on my setup and put in some drones to drone bay what I had on my hangar. I understand that I have to pick right drones based on rats. But that I don't know yet so that will be changed anyway.
Sam Redshift
PCG Enterprises
#45 - 2011-09-27 07:43:09 UTC
Jupek Faithflame wrote:
Fabulous Virgil wrote:
don't mix active and passive tank in pve, also don't mix shield tank with armor tank


I missed a memo for this. Why this is bad?



Active and passive tanking are two different tanking methods that not go well together.
The problem is that active and passive tanking modules are both mid slot equipment but you need a max number of slots to optimize one ot the tank types.
Doing only one very good is better than mixing up both to get a mediocre result.

Active tank uses cap to boost the shield regen and to repair the incoming damage
Here the size of shield is not as important as how quickly you can regen shield damage.
You use shield boosters and cap regen modules.
Mostly done for small ships with small shields: frigates, cruisers

A passive tank uses very large shields in the first place and uses the normal shield regen rate of the ship to replenish it.
Here shield szize matters and you use shield extenders to prop it up even further.
You also use shield hardeners and resist modules to reduce incoming damage as far as possible.
Mostly done with larger ships that have large shields in the first place: BC's and BS's

Passive shield tanks have the highest regen rates when shields are already down (40-60%). So, your ship maybe 2/3's in shields but this makes your passive tank even stronger because shield regen is at its optimal comfort zone.

Mixing this with an active tank that boost shield back to 100% would limit the PT efficiency.

Check the Uni wiki for more information about fitting strategies for shields.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Shield_Tanking#Fitting_Strategy
Jupek Faithflame
Storm Vulture
#46 - 2011-09-27 09:15:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Jupek Faithflame
Sam Redshift wrote:
Passive shield tanks have the highest regen rates when shields are already down (40-60%). So, your ship maybe 2/3's in shields but this makes your passive tank even stronger because shield regen is at its optimal comfort zone.

Mixing this with an active tank that boost shield back to 100% would limit the PT efficiency.

Check the Uni wiki for more information about fitting strategies for shields.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Shield_Tanking#Fitting_Strategy


Thank you very much. This now makes sense. So much to learn, not enough time. P

I'm sorry forum moderators that we get side track in this post but this was informative.
Xearal
Dead's Prostitutes
The Initiative.
#47 - 2011-09-27 10:10:41 UTC
About a year and a half back, when I first started playing Eve, my main income was from exploration. I could easily make 50-100M in an evening of playing, just doing radar sites with a little frigate.
As I haven't lived in Empire for ages, I don't know how compettitive/busy the scanning over there is now, back then there were some other people around, on some nights, I'd get lucky and get well over my quota, some evenings, I'd find only one or 2 radars.

For a total noob, I'd recommend going for an Imicus if you're doing radars. it's cheap, easily fitted, and can do high sec radars with no trouble at all.

Here's what I used:
[Imicus, Cheap Explore]

[High]
Core Probe Launcher I (Sisters Core Scanner Probe)
Salvager I

[Mid]
Codebreaker I
Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters

[Low]
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Small 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I

[Rigs]
2x Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I

[Drones]
3x Hobgoblin I


This fit requires almost nothing in SPs to use, and it's cheap. You can replace the meta stuff in lows for lower meta as well if you want. This fit will get you through any high sec radar site, though maybe not as fast as a cruiser or bigger, it works, and it's cheap, the only part of it that costs any 'serious' isk for a noobie is the sister probes. I do recommend getting those, they're totally worth it.

Here is the strategy on how to do these sites:
- Scan it down,
- Warp there
- Approach a group of rats. As soon as they agro you, turn around, kick in the afterburner and release your drones on them.
- Stay out of their range with the AB so they can't hit you until the drones have done their thing.
- Hack the cans
- Profit

If you haven't scanned the entire system yet, you can continu scanning from there, and just approach any wrecks, loot/salvage them while you're busy scanning for a little more money.

The main point about scanning is, it's a hit and miss thing. Some days you will get lucky, some days you won't. Just because a single system doesn't have anything, or even 2 or 3 doesn't mean it's not profitable. My usual rounds consisted of about 10-12 systems I scanned down and cleaned out. On some nights, this would get me almost nothing, on some nights, I had 2-3 radars in nearly every system.

You can also do combat sites, getting a bigger/better ship for them after you scanned them down. My personal feeling about this is that radars are slightly more 'consistent' as you can scan/do more of them on an evening than combats, but a combat can get you a big score.
The question is.. Are you feeling Lucky?.... Punk.

Does railgun ammunition come in Hollow Point?

Fabulous Virgil
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2011-09-27 11:25:29 UTC
Sam Redshift wrote:
Jupek Faithflame wrote:
Fabulous Virgil wrote:
don't mix active and passive tank in pve, also don't mix shield tank with armor tank


I missed a memo for this. Why this is bad?



Active and passive tanking are two different tanking methods that not go well together.
The problem is that active and passive tanking modules are both mid slot equipment but you need a max number of slots to optimize one ot the tank types.
Doing only one very good is better than mixing up both to get a mediocre result.

Active tank uses cap to boost the shield regen and to repair the incoming damage
Here the size of shield is not as important as how quickly you can regen shield damage.
You use shield boosters and cap regen modules.
Mostly done for small ships with small shields: frigates, cruisers

A passive tank uses very large shields in the first place and uses the normal shield regen rate of the ship to replenish it.
Here shield szize matters and you use shield extenders to prop it up even further.
You also use shield hardeners and resist modules to reduce incoming damage as far as possible.
Mostly done with larger ships that have large shields in the first place: BC's and BS's

Passive shield tanks have the highest regen rates when shields are already down (40-60%). So, your ship maybe 2/3's in shields but this makes your passive tank even stronger because shield regen is at its optimal comfort zone.

Mixing this with an active tank that boost shield back to 100% would limit the PT efficiency.

Check the Uni wiki for more information about fitting strategies for shields.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Shield_Tanking#Fitting_Strategy


holy **** man, are you trolling him or what

how is active tanking mostly used on smaller ships, what game are you playing, active shield tank is always used on large ships in PvE, passive shield tanking is all about regeneration and battleships have like the longest shield recharge time with 1 or 2 exeptions, it's good on everything up to a BC, it's not about how big your buffer is, it's about how fast it regenerates compared to it, that's so much misinformation saying that BS are passive shield tankers, seriously wtf

passive shield regeneration and capacitor regeneration work the same way, they're at peak around 33%

weather you passive or active tank small ships comes down to bonuses, capacitor and the slot layout, but more often than not passive shield tanks are far superior
Jupek Faithflame
Storm Vulture
#49 - 2011-09-29 18:37:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Jupek Faithflame
Finally find something. P

First contact
Tchuk Dallocort
Doomheim
#50 - 2011-09-30 14:27:10 UTC
I am curious how did you manage to find any specific sites? I have been flying for the past 2 evenings and all I see is anomalies a. When I scan them down, I get all wormholes. I probably went through 35-40 systems in caldari and amar space.
Jupek Faithflame
Storm Vulture
#51 - 2011-09-30 18:47:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Jupek Faithflame
Tchuk Dallocort wrote:
I am curious how did you manage to find any specific sites? I have been flying for the past 2 evenings and all I see is anomalies a. When I scan them down, I get all wormholes. I probably went through 35-40 systems in caldari and amar space.


Pure luck I think. I have only done now two rounds. One for almost nothing and now found something. Keep on checking that blog time to time. I propably write something every week so you can see if I found something in a future.

EDIT: One point though might be that with my current skills, with core scanner probe, my sensor stregth is 75.5 (based on EFT info) and with sister core probes (which I haven't used yet) it is 83. After a few days I'll get those to 81.3 and 89.4 when I get my Astrometic Rangefinding to level 4.
Tchuk Dallocort
Doomheim
#52 - 2011-09-30 20:50:47 UTC
Could it because my sensor strength is only 63 with sister core probes?
Orlacc
#53 - 2011-10-01 06:27:27 UTC
Tchuk Dallocort wrote:
Could it because my sensor strength is only 63 with sister core probes?



It's a lot of luck. Most skills just speed things up...

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2011-10-01 08:25:43 UTC
As Orlacc said, better probe sensor strength only helps you find an existing site faster, and get you a warp in to it faster. The strength of your probes has nothing to do with which sites will spawn.

A faster probe strength however will let you scan down and find more sites in the same period of time, giving you a better chance of finding something nice :)
Jupek Faithflame
Storm Vulture
#55 - 2011-10-15 22:29:00 UTC
Jupek Faithflame wrote:
So I'm not looking for a billions or even 10M per a run.


Altough it is too early to make statements for exploration I wanted to point out my reports on this blog site.

http://jupekfaithflame.blogspot.com/

I allready can confirm that I'm getting more ISK using this than anything else so far but same time I have to say that either I'm unlucky or it just needs lot of more time to spend in one month if you want to earn 350M ISK for plex in hi-sec space. I'm not saying it is impossible but is it worth of subscription payment if you want to pay free account with that amount of work. Roll

But I'll keep on going. I have to agree that exploration is a little addictive. Lol

Cherry Nobyl
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2011-10-15 23:26:59 UTC
it sounds like you're having some fun out there, which is great.

it also sounds like you're continuing to use the imicus for the explo sites you're finding. i'd recommend looking back through the posts and rechecking some of the other ships posted. specifically the destroyers.

for a while there while still a low skilled and unknowing pilot i found that a thrasher worked quite well at clearing rats quickly and still allowing for reasonable scanning. including a variety of areas in low sec where a simple thrasher is often times overlooked (but not always ;p ) by many pirates. just remember to clean out the hold every once in a while to avoid having too much in cargo if you are jumped. also, always scan from a 'safe' spot, either a bookmark made between several planets or a customs office from a distance that you then boogie away from at top speed while scanning.

[Thrasher, New Setup 3]
Small Automated I Carapace Restoration
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Analyzer I
Codebreaker I
Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters

Salvager I
Core Probe Launcher I, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I
250mm Light Gallium I Cannon, Proton S 23 (optimal)+8.8(falloff)
250mm Light Gallium I Cannon, EMP S 7.3+8.8
250mm Light Gallium I Cannon, EMP S
250mm Light Gallium I Cannon, EMP S
250mm Light Gallium I Cannon, EMP S
250mm Light Gallium I Cannon, EMP S

Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
[empty rig slot]

between proton and emp/phased plasma rounds it covers a wide degree of ranges, typically well outside what the rats will be able to hit you from. it's quite cheap, and losing it won't break the bank.

best of luck.
Jupek Faithflame
Storm Vulture
#57 - 2011-10-16 11:11:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jupek Faithflame
Cherry Nobyl wrote:
it also sounds like you're continuing to use the imicus for the explo sites you're finding. i'd recommend looking back through the posts and rechecking some of the other ships posted. specifically the destroyers.


For now yes, but I have plans to use some other ships after this testing period. Vexor is high on my list for my next explorer ship because I have pretty high drone skills allready. But I haven't rule out any other setups suggested on this thread either. But for radars and magnetometric sites on hi-sec Imicus has been enough.

But low-sec exploring + new ships are on my list next...and maybe first unkown sites on hi-sec space. But want to go this "a month testing period" first as planned with these setups.
Sam Redshift
PCG Enterprises
#58 - 2011-10-16 13:33:34 UTC
Fabulous Virgil wrote:
[quote=Sam Redshift]

holy **** man, are you trolling him or what
... snip ...
that's so much misinformation saying that BS are passive shield tankers, seriously wtf


Oh man .. calm down. May be I got it wrong, okay.
Just tell me in a decent reply and I would be grateful for being corrected.
But not in this way, pls.
Nevryn Takis
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2011-10-17 15:58:26 UTC
Cherry Nobyl wrote:
it sounds like you're having some fun out there, which is great.

it also sounds like you're continuing to use the imicus for the explo sites you're finding. i'd recommend looking back through the posts and rechecking some of the other ships posted. specifically the destroyers.

for a while there while still a low skilled and unknowing pilot i found that a thrasher worked quite well at clearing rats quickly and still allowing for reasonable scanning. including a variety of areas in low sec where a simple thrasher is often times overlooked (but not always ;p ) by many pirates. just remember to clean out the hold every once in a while to avoid having too much in cargo if you are jumped. also, always scan from a 'safe' spot, either a bookmark made between several planets or a customs office from a distance that you then boogie away from at top speed while scanning.

[Thrasher, New Setup 3]
Small Automated I Carapace Restoration
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Analyzer I
Codebreaker I
Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters

Salvager I
Core Probe Launcher I, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I
250mm Light Gallium I Cannon, Proton S 23 (optimal)+8.8(falloff)
250mm Light Gallium I Cannon, EMP S 7.3+8.8
250mm Light Gallium I Cannon, EMP S
250mm Light Gallium I Cannon, EMP S
250mm Light Gallium I Cannon, EMP S
250mm Light Gallium I Cannon, EMP S

Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
[empty rig slot]

between proton and emp/phased plasma rounds it covers a wide degree of ranges, typically well outside what the rats will be able to hit you from. it's quite cheap, and losing it won't break the bank.

best of luck.

I would fit 4x200mm Ac's, 2x250mm Arty, a NOS (the meta 4 if you can get one), plus the probe launcher in the highs then pull a tight orbit (500m) around the cruisers or other suitable target found in some sites.
You can then use it as a battery to run the Armour Repper. Just make sure you run your cap at between 50 and 75% of capacity
You can them kill all other targets then kill the cruiser(cap battery) last.
With a catalyst you need 2 NOS (it's a really crap destroyer). Haven't tried it with a cormarant (but as it's hybrid fit it's likely to suffer in the same way).
If you're up agaist Angels use Fusion Ammo (Exp weakness), and Guristas use Titanium Sabot (exploits their Kin weakness, although emp works nearly as well)
If you find an Angel Lookout' forget the second room and mine the jaspet/hemophite instead - it's much more profitable...
Sekki Shin
State War Academy
Caldari State
#60 - 2011-10-18 11:58:10 UTC
Long time ago I have written wiki page about high sec exploration:

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/High_sec_exploration_(advanced)

it is not for begginers but once you get hang of it it should help you improve earnings. I do exploration since I started playing EVE, well 2 months later cause I had to learn skills (old scan system)Big smile. I easily earn 2-3 billion in a month depending on luck/time invested which is really good for high sec. You have to take into account that I know all tricks so that is why my earnings are good. I also invest billions into it. I tried to share most of my tricks of trade in that page in order to help people out. Hope it helps you too.

Have fun and be persistentAttention