Intergalactic Summit

I'd like to address one of the points of M. Khross without entirely derailing the thread in which it was posted.



The Federation has a number of Asylum Seekers, largely Matari, who migrate to the Federation in search of a chance to climb the ladder of opportunity afforded them by our way of life. These people are poor, and they often come with nothing but the clothes on their backs.

But what we believe is that there is social floor, through which no-one should fall, and we help these people as much as we are able. We in the Federal Social Democratic party see it as our duty to provide equality of opportunity for everyone in our society.

There are those within the Federation who believe that equality is an outmoded concept and that it is better for the poor to remain poor, and the rich to remain rich. After all, if the poor merited advancement, they would be advanced, correct?

Unfortunately, this is as false in the Federation as it is anywhere else. There are structural disadvantages in place for some people, that are not of their own making, that make it impossible for people to advance only on merit. The Ghouls of the National Party would have our society descend to some sort of feeding frenzy where competition for each tiny scrap of flesh is fought over by each of us. However, we believe a compassionate society more correctly reflects Gallente ideals.

Given this, we can build a Federation stronger than the one we were given. A Federation, prouder than the one we found.

There is a distant light, guiding us through these rocky shoals. We have only to follow it to make our society better.

Hear hear, Ms. Severasse.

Pshaw. What poppycock.

To help the conversation proceed, can I ask something? By what means do you intend to make your social safety net, Ms Severasse? Is this a case of simple welfare handouts, or something more durable?

There's no real poverty in the Federation at least poverty in the sense of misery. There is always lower classes in any society. It's just that everyone has such a high standard of living that it makes the people that are less well-off seem impoverished. I think our poor enjoy a higher quality of life than most in New Eden.

Out government offers free health care, free education and even free housing if you wish to volunteer for our colonist program. Of course enjoying these benefits require you to have citizenship and pay taxes. The first is easy to get even with the stricter requirements lately and taxes are proportionate to your income and purchasing power so it's not like the Federation will suck your ISK dry either.

If for some reason you can't get a job and you can't pay your bills, odds are you just need to find a new place to call home. You are free to do whatever you want to do.

You cannot possibly be that naive.

The Sociocrat approach seems that much more approachable now that Blaque is out of politics.

Funny, how I was about to address this exact topic, pointing out the same problems with structural disadvantages for the poor in any society to rise up.

However, the issue of "handouts" is a difficult one in the Federation. Given that power rises from the bottom, and not the top like elsewhere, individual nations within the Federation will take offence at being meddled within. If the Federation provides aid on a planetary government basis, it will likely be conditional, which compromises local autonomy. This can tangentialize into the topic of structural violence, where richer planets in the Federation keep the poorer ones under their boot through a variety of methods. Furthermore, how can you trust these governments to put the aid where it belongs? You'll need Federal finance inspectors, which compromises local autonomy further.

Even the presence of Federal outposts handing out food or aid directly to citizens will still be seen as potentially unwelcome, as it bypasses local autonomy altogether. Nobody likes government presence in this union, given how most of us prefer living our lives by our own accord.

There is also the subjective definition of poverty. Farming communities in the Federation may lack a holovision, even a television set, and most of the luxuries someone from Vale might take for granted. Yet, they'll see no issue with it, and in some cases, they might even be happier for it. The Valean might think the Serthouldean to be impoverished, but I doubt the latter knows any better.

Ah yes, the ever delusional "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" speech.

It is always confusing to me how people can manage to show such willful ignorance of the fact that many people, through circumstances of birth, are afforded wildly different levels of opportunity than others. Furthermore, many interests with vast resources at their disposal work tirelessly to influence policies which protect their positions or restrict others from rising up to match them. After thousands of years, the same tired explanations get trotted out about how those who succeed do so solely because of hard work and perseverance and those who fall behind must be lazy, unqualified or otherwise undeserving.

What I find most amusing about this is that the outlook described here is basically meritocracy. So in effect what you are doing is advocating a social construct that forms a central pillar of Caldari communities. However, it is merely lip-service designed to vilify the less fortunate and praise those blessed with advantages that have little to do with aptitude or effort as being "more worthy." Now, I have no issue with many of the basic aspects of meritocracy, but I have no patience for those who wield such a system as a weapon to suit their purposes while knowing full well that in reality, we do not remotely operate under this philosophy.

Tell a hard working family from the crime-infested depths of Placid who toil in a depressed economic market to sustain themselves, provide for their children and scrape everything they have together for the possibility to see them receive a decent education and maybe move further up the ladder that they just aren't as deserving as the beneficiary of a dynastic fortune. There are many high-income jobs in the more affluent areas of the Federation which seem to provide almost nothing in terms of value to the product and service industries where skilled labor and knowledge-based fields receive little in comparison despite their far more direct contribution to the quality of life to those around them.

Where it's always nice to help the poor, making it a matter of governmental policy is folly. Governments do not produce anything. It gets income through taxes, fees for various things, tariffs, and levies.

When a government wants to give someone money, we should ask: is everybody on board with this?

Truth is that this is seldom the case. But let's ask: how do we avoid taxes and such, and what happens to you when you go about the necessary means (smuggling in most cases) when you do?

For the rank and file out there, if they don't pay taxes, collectors come. Things can escalate into one person (government) pointing a gun at the other (taxpayer). So while everything is couched in the appearance of being voluntary - for the rank and file that means leaving everything behind and going to live with the Guristas or Serpentis, etc - the end result is armed robbery.

Now, when you have people on the dole - getting the handouts - do we deny them the right to vote too? Denial of the rights to vote in a democratic society such that the Federation is, is..... blasphemy (sorry to the Amarr but even without God, there is still worship of something, like the state, with equal zeal in many cases).

So when the people benefiting from armed robbery without the consequences of actually having committed a crime get to vote, what do you think will happen?

Now imagine that the people voting for more money in their pocket outnumber those who are paying the taxes.

What do you think will happen then?

Frankly, if we want to help the poor, the Sisters of Eve is always taking donations and are always in need of help. They are quite good at it, and are not affecting governments.

In the end, when people are being taxed too much, they become less charitable too. The incentive to earn more is also lost, and that means less tax revenue. From there the governments might have to devalue currency by creating more of it. Thankfully ISK is not affected by this and the universe uses ISK across all empires, meaning that all empires would have to have an issue with socialism costing too much and agree on this. This is likely the only thing protecting us from a devalued currency with all of the "guns and butter" policies of our empires that seek to buy votes (those that have voting anyway) and wage war at the same time.

Oh, pardon me, but I've been out in the arse-end of Derelik/Devoid for some while now:

Is there an election-cycle going on in the Federation at present?

I mean, I should hope so:

Because that would mean that you are just stumping with this generic libertarian boilerplate, in the typical cynically manipulative and contrived Gallente manner.

Which, I must stress, is good--because the alternative would be that you really are this deluded and nai'ive.

I'm almost afraid to ask, but....Which is it, then?