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.01 isking limits
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Tesal
#1 - 2012-06-21 22:39:44 UTC
People are always complaining about the .01isk wars so I thought I would add an observation I've had. The harder you .01isk the greater the response in kind, leading to a cycle that gets worse the more it goes on. Sometimes if you let up on items, the small orders clear out and you are left with the big orders who are usually less likely to .01isk. The small orders are often newbs who may only have a few items on the market and are willing to .01 isk all day long for a meager return. The moral of the story is that its not always best to be the top order at all costs. This saves a lot of time and effort and frustration on occasions. It also gives you a chance to mark up your orders to a better position meaning you make more isk overall.
Lady Skrillex
XTELLARIX
#2 - 2012-06-21 22:53:33 UTC
I agree 100%, well put!
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#3 - 2012-06-21 22:55:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Brewlar Kuvakei
Or use software that is within EULA that informs you exactly when you've been 1 isked and to counter in a matter of seconds across an entire spread sheet and no it's not botting if it does not update without player input automatically.
Estel Again
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-06-21 22:56:04 UTC
I was 0.1M isking someone the other day. Pissed him off.
Rengerel en Distel
#5 - 2012-06-22 16:21:17 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Or use software that is within EULA that informs you exactly when you've been 1 isked and to counter in a matter of seconds across an entire spread sheet and no it's not botting if it does not update without player input automatically.


I would guess being notified you've been outbid isn't botting, but if the program counters the bids then yeah, it is.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-06-22 17:02:37 UTC
Implement minimum bid increments, based on unit price, like auctions. Obsoletes the bots for traders, and provides meaningful price competition for customers.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-06-22 17:48:54 UTC
Tesal wrote:
People are always complaining about the .01isk wars so I thought I would add an observation I've had. The harder you .01isk the greater the response in kind, leading to a cycle that gets worse the more it goes on. Sometimes if you let up on items, the small orders clear out and you are left with the big orders who are usually less likely to .01isk.

it depends of supply/demand. Sometime i really use this strategy and even set price BIGGER then few lowest orders with low amount of items to sell.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Litair
Nleesh
#8 - 2012-06-23 00:50:01 UTC
However as annoying as it is to be 0.01 isk outbidded, it is usually in your own interest as well.. because if it was regulated and made impossible they'd undoubtedly just outbit you by 100, 1000 or 10000 isk instead, which would after a few hours of price battling ruin the profit margin for all quite noticeably.
So basically 0.01 is good for the trading class, sort of like a code of chivalry or honor among thieves.. You don't kill my potential profit, I don't kill yours, but I still outbid you.
Sucks for the final consumer though of course ^^
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-06-23 01:32:38 UTC
Litair wrote:
However as annoying as it is to be 0.01 isk outbidded, it is usually in your own interest as well.. because if it was regulated and made impossible they'd undoubtedly just outbit you by 100, 1000 or 10000 isk instead, which would after a few hours of price battling ruin the profit margin for all quite noticeably.
So basically 0.01 is good for the trading class, sort of like a code of chivalry or honor among thieves.. You don't kill my potential profit, I don't kill yours, but I still outbid you.
Sucks for the final consumer though of course ^^


Or not be outbid at all.

The trend in recent years is customers are becoming far more likely to set up orders instead of buying/selling direct off trader orders. Customer is inconvenienced, and trader (bot or live) is cut out and makes nothing. Meaningful price competition benefits everyone.
Litair
Nleesh
#10 - 2012-06-23 01:48:06 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Litair wrote:
However as annoying as it is to be 0.01 isk outbidded, it is usually in your own interest as well.. because if it was regulated and made impossible they'd undoubtedly just outbit you by 100, 1000 or 10000 isk instead, which would after a few hours of price battling ruin the profit margin for all quite noticeably.
So basically 0.01 is good for the trading class, sort of like a code of chivalry or honor among thieves.. You don't kill my potential profit, I don't kill yours, but I still outbid you.
Sucks for the final consumer though of course ^^


Or not be outbid at all.

The trend in recent years is customers are becoming far more likely to set up orders instead of buying/selling direct off trader orders. Customer is inconvenienced, and trader (bot or live) is cut out and makes nothing. Meaningful price competition benefits everyone.


I can see what you mean, but I'm not convinced it'd work like that.. I've been trading in the same items for a time with a fairly stable profit, and then occasionally some desperate insect comes along and starts undercutting or overbidding by 100k rather than 0.01 isk.. and everyone else just follows, keeping the price war going fast and annoying as usual, just with much less isk to be made. Eventually it'll become so little that it's not worth the effort, but that's hardly a good thing from a traders perspective.

Even if people just do 0.01 bids, it's still a major bother to keep on top, so I don't really think any casual mission runners or the like would want to spend the time modifying orders.
Janet Patton
Brony Express
#11 - 2012-06-23 02:30:17 UTC
This is why when I buy something for myself, I don't always pick the cheapest order. If it's within reason of a few ISK from the bottom.

I think these 0.01 ISK wars are good. It SHOULD encourage people to move out of a saturated systems market and try to be competitive some place else. Instead of throwing tantrums on how there should be limits. Those people who are the most dedicated will still find a way around it. Only giving those who wanted more regulations the headaches.

Why do I have this sig? I don't smoke.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-06-23 04:49:12 UTC
Janet Patton wrote:
This is why when I buy something for myself, I don't always pick the cheapest order. If it's within reason of a few ISK from the bottom.

I think these 0.01 ISK wars are good. It SHOULD encourage people to move out of a saturated systems market and try to be competitive some place else. Instead of throwing tantrums on how there should be limits. Those people who are the most dedicated will still find a way around it. Only giving those who wanted more regulations the headaches.


Your payment goes to the cheapest order, aka, 0.01isker, just now with 0.01 more isk.Roll

Litair wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Litair wrote:
However as annoying as it is to be 0.01 isk outbidded, it is usually in your own interest as well.. because if it was regulated and made impossible they'd undoubtedly just outbit you by 100, 1000 or 10000 isk instead, which would after a few hours of price battling ruin the profit margin for all quite noticeably.
So basically 0.01 is good for the trading class, sort of like a code of chivalry or honor among thieves.. You don't kill my potential profit, I don't kill yours, but I still outbid you.
Sucks for the final consumer though of course ^^


Or not be outbid at all.

The trend in recent years is customers are becoming far more likely to set up orders instead of buying/selling direct off trader orders. Customer is inconvenienced, and trader (bot or live) is cut out and makes nothing. Meaningful price competition benefits everyone.


I can see what you mean, but I'm not convinced it'd work like that.. I've been trading in the same items for a time with a fairly stable profit, and then occasionally some desperate insect comes along and starts undercutting or overbidding by 100k rather than 0.01 isk.. and everyone else just follows, keeping the price war going fast and annoying as usual, just with much less isk to be made. Eventually it'll become so little that it's not worth the effort, but that's hardly a good thing from a traders perspective.

Even if people just do 0.01 bids, it's still a major bother to keep on top, so I don't really think any casual mission runners or the like would want to spend the time modifying orders.


These "desperate insects" are the customers putting in small orders for use themselves. They tend to do it when they see perceived ripoff with a batch of 0.01 isk difference orders. Minimum bid increments will change this perception by customers, and take away the hassle of 0.01isking for traders at the same time.
Danari
Syncore
#13 - 2012-06-23 05:03:45 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
The trend in recent years is customers are becoming far more likely to set up orders instead of buying/selling direct off trader orders. Customer is inconvenienced, and trader (bot or live) is cut out and makes nothing. Meaningful price competition benefits everyone.


I don't think this works. I tried it as an alternate supply for my sale items, and even with the top bid it took me about a day to buy a battleship. Nobody is going to wait a day or longer to save 10mil on an Abaddon.
Estel Again
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-06-23 05:41:09 UTC
Janet Patton wrote:
This is why when I buy something for myself, I don't always pick the cheapest order.

Classic!