EVE General Discussion

Because when goons win the culture war, GMs will have to step in like they did on the Chinese server (assuming anyone still plays the game at that point) .

While I'm sure this is a big ha ha **** look at em cry thing for you guys, the point is it's bad for the game. It's bad for CCP, and that's bad for everyone who likes to play eve. You might not have noticed, but we're at best static, and at worst, sinking with only people's alt accounts making up the diff. I know when my own accounts expire at the end of the month, after 9 years, I won't be re-subbing.

(and, before you ask, no, you can't haz my stuff)

Ah. That's where the big huge cockup is, then? The player influenceable "suggested price" they have in the new UI?

There's a huge qualitative difference.
When you have some unintended consequences in your design, then that's part of your game's framework until you change the design again. Examples for this are moon goo bottlenecks (badly designed, not an exploit), the Covops Cloak Avatar (unintended consequence of the new CPU rigs, not an exploit), or, for a non-EVE example, rocket jumping in Quake. Neither of these have resulted in any consequences for players that use them, and that's because they're there by design. Maybe the design is bad, but that doesn't matter: your design specifically states that players are allowed to do that.
Compared to that, the design for towers said "you can combine these inputs in a specific way to make these outputs". Nowhere was it stated that you can combine nothing to make any outputs. Not even implicitly, and here's the big difference: market manipulation isn't a new thing in EVE, it's been around since the beginning. Now you combine that with the devblog on FW changes, where it says "Transported items market value", in these exact words.
You can't seriously tell me that CCP didn't think people would be able to manipulate the value of items when that's exactly what has happened time and time again. So people have sat down, brainstormed, come up with these changes, and they have consciously decided that yes, they'll use market value, and it won't be a big problem.

Anyway; it doesn't really matter whether you think there's a difference between code bugs and design bugs, because CCP has (up until now) repeatedly shown that they think there is: Ferrogel duping (code bug) resulted in bans. AoE doomsdays (design bug) got patched out, no further action taken. WH infinite tracking (code bug due to underflow) resulted in bans. CONCORD boomerang (design bug) got patched out (and was declared an exploit by GM statement), but people who used it until then didn't have their account sanctioned. Triple web vindicator stopping people from entering warp (somewhat strange mixture of both code and design bug) was declared an exploit by GM statement. Bot users (I'd classify this being possible as a code bug, although I know that it's difficult if not impossible to entirely prevent; it's certainly not a design problem) got banned.

The point is, in all cases where the design was flawed, the loopholes was either changed or expressly disallowed, and prior to that nobody had actions taken against their account, or any proceeds reversed.

Even if you do believe that the gainings of those involved in the alleged FW exploit should be seized, there isn't really wide-spread opposition to that point of view; the majority of the outcry concerns that CCP has overdone it and removed ALL assets that looked like they might have been bought with LP at one point, regardless of the actual method of acquisition, and also disregarding the time when they were actually obtained.

we won the culture war long ago gf gf

I have rubbed one out three times today while reading this thread...

And yet you complain about me not doing the research....

Um, how so? This whole debacle doesn't matter one way or the other about how I played EvE. I already made my staggering fortune, long before some of you ever started playing EvE (for paint's edification, this toon is a 2004), and already own five of everything I want.

I enjoy hanging out and talking to people in game, and unless CCP gives you the keys to the chat system, I seriously doubt you can ruin my play style.

My problem with goons is the same as my problem with BoB. For an alliance to be 'victorious' means the death of the game.



EDit: as far as warning CCP, sadly, I know that their response time is abysmal now days. Back when I started, a bug like this would be addressed instantly. Now days a mail bug happens that prevents you from getting wardec and combat messages, and it's a two month wait for them to get back to you.

Oh I am sure right? If only I knew how critical you were/are to Goonswarm. I better show some serious respect right away!

Working with CCP? You mean making long smug posts about how much money they made and trying to cover their butts with a PR slant on their use of an exploit? Somebody who was working with CCP would have reported the problem and not tried to make a huge amount of isk from it. And then reap a huge PR bonanza from it by posting about it and making the error public.

I think Goonswarm has shown CCP just how much of a friend they are.

The sad part is that the only way EvE's PR could get worse as far as non-players are concerned is if CCP were taken over by EA. Seriously, it's THAT BAD in most other forums.

Let me put it in perspective: I was talking to one former player who left us in favor of The Old Republic. Stop and think about that for a second.