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Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

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Arrgthepirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1581 - 2012-06-22 20:33:07 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Aryth wrote:
The major point being. There is no incentive to report anything to CCP. You are far better off trying to get away with it quietly.

Uh, no.

And, just for the record, suggesting that players engage in this sort of behavior is a much more serious EULA violation - one which can get you slapped with a ban, not just a negative wallet. No matter how upset you might be, don't go there, Aryth.


Glad to know you're a GM, or Moderator, or are you a Dev? I musta missed your tag.
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#1582 - 2012-06-22 20:33:11 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:

They aren't punishing you. You did nothing wrong. No one is getting banned here.

They are just trying to completely fix teh problem you were nice enough to point out at your own in-game expense. Part of that fixing is getting rid of the stuff gained using the problem. You understand.

Wrong. They have taken MORE than they got from using the problem mechanic. Alot more.


Well call the UN and hire a lawyer. What do you want?
Domer Pyle
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1583 - 2012-06-22 20:33:53 UTC
this thread is chock full of goon tears. i am amused.

but, yeah, it seems that the goons went above and beyond helping ccp fix a bug, hence why they're taking the stuff you got from it, lol. makes sense to me.

"Imagine if the bars to your prison were all you had ever known. Then one day, someone appears and unlocks the door. If they have the power to do this, then are they really the liberator? You never remembered who it was that closed you in." - Ior Labron
Alain Kinsella
#1584 - 2012-06-22 20:34:04 UTC
Aryth wrote:
It's more than that. To justify seizing everything, and even assets unreleated to FW, they have to be saying, using their own game mechanics, and the design they were repeatedly told was bad, is an exploit. That is what is so chilling about it.

This isn't the CCP of 2 years ago. Sonyfied CCP is not the CCP we know and love. They are something different now. It wasn't until it hit PCGamer they took actoin.


Those of us who watched it happen to SL called it Disneyfication. Kinda apt, eh?

"The Meta Game does not stop at the game. Ever."

Currently Retired / Semi-Casual (pending changes to RL concerns).
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#1585 - 2012-06-22 20:34:09 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:

How can knowingly abusing a game mechanic you KNOW is broken, be OK?

pos bowling was always obviously broken but nobody ever got banned

anywho i expect the gms are operating on a philosophy of seize first, investigate later to minimize the potential for the trail to be cold, we shall see where things shake out



That does seem like the quickest and most efficient way to deal with this situation.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Ziranda Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1586 - 2012-06-22 20:34:18 UTC
Blawrf McTaggart wrote:
Welcome to EVE Online. The universe is Sreegs'.


way to toss Sreegs under the bus boy. good luck kids enjoy your break from eve
Nikodiemus
Ganja Clade
Shadow Cartel
#1587 - 2012-06-22 20:34:44 UTC
Aryth wrote:
It's more than that. To justify seizing everything, and even assets unreleated to FW, they have to be saying, using their own game mechanics, and the design they were repeatedly told was bad, is an exploit. That is what is so chilling about it.

This isn't the CCP of 2 years ago. Sonyfied CCP is not the CCP we know and love. They are something different now. It wasn't until it hit PCGamer they took actoin.


Of course you would say they are taking things that were obtained honestly. Not that you have to show any evidence right? I mean really, we took your word for it when you posted about the theft right? Oh wai....
Ghost Xray
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1588 - 2012-06-22 20:34:52 UTC
Goon tears are the best tears.

Or

EvE isn't supposed to be fair.

Or

HTFU

Oh, you guys got plenty of short quips that you use on the rest of the community when they "whine". Use some of them to cheer yourselves up.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#1589 - 2012-06-22 20:34:56 UTC
Lord Ryan wrote:
Disclaimer. Assuming any of what has been reported is true!

If its not, they are trolling each other as well, because its being reported in internal comms.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Vincent Athen
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1590 - 2012-06-22 20:35:03 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Aryth wrote:
The major point being. There is no incentive to report anything to CCP. You are far better off trying to get away with it quietly.

Uh, no.

And, just for the record, suggesting that players engage in this sort of behavior is a much more serious EULA violation - one which can get you slapped with a ban, not just a negative wallet. No matter how upset you might be, don't go there, Aryth.

Except that he's not doing that.
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#1591 - 2012-06-22 20:35:11 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
I'm curious, are you actually angry that some people, who took it upon themselves to knowingly abuse a broken game mechanic to throw a massive section of the market as well as faction warfare in to complete disarray in order to profit personally to the tune of hundreds of billions, now have the threat of rightful retribution hanging over their heads?


there is literally nothing wrong with doing what you detailed

there are other things involved here


How can knowingly abusing a game mechanic you KNOW is broken, be OK?


we can, for example, use our massive amount of tech ISK (tech being a broken mechanic) to do exactly what you said



Again, this does not make it right, which was my point in the first place.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1592 - 2012-06-22 20:35:47 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Aryth wrote:
The major point being. There is no incentive to report anything to CCP. You are far better off trying to get away with it quietly.

Uh, no.

And, just for the record, suggesting that players engage in this sort of behavior is a much more serious EULA violation - one which can get you slapped with a ban, not just a negative wallet. No matter how upset you might be, don't go there, Aryth.


By me suggesting people are far better off trying to game the system quietly than overtly? There were no exploits here as far as I am concerned. CCP romping around siezing assets not even related to this clearly shows they feel differently. Playing the game to the limits of their design is now officially an exploit. This is bigger than this specific case. This is not the CCP of old.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#1593 - 2012-06-22 20:36:23 UTC
Domer Pyle wrote:
this thread is chock full of goon tears. i am amused.

but, yeah, it seems that the goons went above and beyond helping ccp fix a bug, hence why they're taking the stuff you got from it, lol. makes sense to me.


they didn't help them fix the bug. they helped their wallets with the bug until ccp fixed it. there is a difference.

and yeah, the goon crying/feet stomping threadnaught that is inbound is only made more delicious when held in contrast to the smug "once again we won eve" OP
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1594 - 2012-06-22 20:37:04 UTC
corestwo wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Aryth wrote:
CCP has now gone and nuked a ton of assets on our accounts. Meaning, we are losing wealth we had previous to this. Wow. But the message is clear. If you want to abuse something, you do not report it. As someone who tried to work with CCP, my advice to anyone in the future is. Don't.


You do know you can file a bug report without inflating your wallet right?

If the wallet gets inflated in the process, it's logical to expect CCP will fix the whole problem.

The WHOLE problem, not the whole problem minus your finders fee.


Please justify CCP taking assets that were not earned through this.


CCP Sreegs posted (possible multiple times) that he'd make sure who trespassed (i.e. caught botting etc) would be beaten hard. This is possibly the "beaten hard" example.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1595 - 2012-06-22 20:38:15 UTC
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Domer Pyle wrote:
this thread is chock full of goon tears. i am amused.

but, yeah, it seems that the goons went above and beyond helping ccp fix a bug, hence why they're taking the stuff you got from it, lol. makes sense to me.


they didn't help them fix the bug. they helped their wallets with the bug until ccp fixed it. there is a difference.

and yeah, the goon crying/feet stomping threadnaught that is inbound is only made more delicious when held in contrast to the smug "once again we won eve" OP


On the contrary. The very fixes CCP did, were the ones we suggested. We also suggested a long term fix that took days of internal debate to figure out the best fix for. We went way out of our way to explain the issue in detail, the possible fixes, and even later on when they exposed themselves to it happening again.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Domer Pyle
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1596 - 2012-06-22 20:39:39 UTC
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Domer Pyle wrote:
this thread is chock full of goon tears. i am amused.

but, yeah, it seems that the goons went above and beyond helping ccp fix a bug, hence why they're taking the stuff you got from it, lol. makes sense to me.


they didn't help them fix the bug. they helped their wallets with the bug until ccp fixed it. there is a difference.

and yeah, the goon crying/feet stomping threadnaught that is inbound is only made more delicious when held in contrast to the smug "once again we won eve" OP


well...*technically* they did, if ccp was unaware of the situation, by pointing it out.did they still exploit it, however? yeah. obviously.

"Imagine if the bars to your prison were all you had ever known. Then one day, someone appears and unlocks the door. If they have the power to do this, then are they really the liberator? You never remembered who it was that closed you in." - Ior Labron
Time Funnel
Just a side dish
Outspoken Alliance
#1597 - 2012-06-22 20:39:40 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:

Posting in a thread where goons helped me make 8.7b isk last saturday for 4 hours play.

(they really ruined my sandbox)



Oh damn, now you in trouble.
blackpatch
Eighty Joule Brewery
Goonswarm Federation
#1598 - 2012-06-22 20:39:47 UTC
who cares about the sandbox we'll be walking in stations any year now
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#1599 - 2012-06-22 20:40:49 UTC
Aryth wrote:
Sizeof Void wrote:
Aryth wrote:
The major point being. There is no incentive to report anything to CCP. You are far better off trying to get away with it quietly.

Uh, no.

And, just for the record, suggesting that players engage in this sort of behavior is a much more serious EULA violation - one which can get you slapped with a ban, not just a negative wallet. No matter how upset you might be, don't go there, Aryth.


By me suggesting people are far better off trying to game the system quietly than overtly? There were no exploits here as far as I am concerned. CCP romping around siezing assets not even related to this clearly shows they feel differently. Playing the game to the limits of their design is now officially an exploit. This is bigger than this specific case. This is not the CCP of old.


give it a rest.

No one sane thinks that while you giggled at your assets window and blew up freighter after freighter of your own and wrote your 15 page fit-for-Time-magazine OP you didn't know that was all going back.

if you did, wow... you seriously shot yourself in the foot with a bonehead move.

That is a type of criminal genius crossed with ineptness not seen outside of TV and movies. Your whole OP reads like when the criminal tells hero his complete plan not realizing he is buying enough time and providing enough evidence to put him away.
Blawrf McTaggart
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1600 - 2012-06-22 20:41:17 UTC
blackpatch wrote:
who cares about the sandbox we'll be walking in stations any year now