These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Arrgthepirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1521 - 2012-06-22 20:08:54 UTC
So this week we learned **** CCP, they can do their own damn QA.
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1522 - 2012-06-22 20:09:30 UTC
corestwo wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Aryth wrote:
CCP has now gone and nuked a ton of assets on our accounts. Meaning, we are losing wealth we had previous to this. Wow. But the message is clear. If you want to abuse something, you do not report it. As someone who tried to work with CCP, my advice to anyone in the future is. Don't.


You do know you can file a bug report without inflating your wallet right?

If the wallet gets inflated in the process, it's logical to expect CCP will fix the whole problem.

The WHOLE problem, not the whole problem minus your finders fee.


Please justify CCP taking assets that were not earned through this.


"Because Goons."
Inspiration
#1523 - 2012-06-22 20:10:22 UTC
Aryth wrote:
CCP has now gone and nuked a ton of assets on our accounts. Meaning, we are losing wealth we had previous to this. Wow. But the message is clear. If you want to abuse something, you do not report it. As someone who tried to work with CCP, my advice to anyone in the future is. Don't.


That is a pretty single sided view on the matter.
If you had just proven the issue and not abuse it to no end, it would not been punished don't you think?

And in some way I think goons got off light here. Remember the deal with moon goo being produced out of nothing (i forgot the details)? The players in corporations involved in that, all got banned!

Scamming player is perfectly fine in this game, but NOT ALL scamming NPC so it seems. It would be good if CCP highlighted where the line is precisely. That way you would know for sure how far you can go!

I am serious!

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1524 - 2012-06-22 20:10:30 UTC
darmwand wrote:
It's somewhat disturbing to see all those cries from people who want to have the transactions reversed. I for one am not a big Goon fan but I have to say this whole thing is pretty damn impressive, well done. And I don't see what everybody is so upset about. Does it in any way stop you from running your little missions, incursions and what not? If it doesn't, then why do you care?


Well, to be honest they are ALWAYS on the front line to p1ss all over missions, incursions (hi sec anything) and what's not.

So don't be surprised if they don't get compact consensus.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Arrgthepirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1525 - 2012-06-22 20:11:13 UTC
Inspiration wrote:
Aryth wrote:
CCP has now gone and nuked a ton of assets on our accounts. Meaning, we are losing wealth we had previous to this. Wow. But the message is clear. If you want to abuse something, you do not report it. As someone who tried to work with CCP, my advice to anyone in the future is. Don't.


That is a pretty single sided view on the matter.
If you had just proven the issue and not abuse it to no end, it would not been punished don't you think?

And in some way I think goons got off light here. Remember the deal with moon goo being produced out of nothing (i forgot the details)? The players in corporations involved in that, all got banned!

Scamming player is perfectly fine in this game, but NOT ALL scamming NPC so it seems. It would be good if CCP highlighted where the line is precisely. That way you would know for sure how far you can go!



Nothing was produced from nothing. THey spent real isk to acquire assets. Get your facts right.
Ghost Xray
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1526 - 2012-06-22 20:11:30 UTC
Aryth wrote:
CCP has now gone and nuked a ton of assets on our accounts. Meaning, we are losing wealth we had previous to this. Wow. But the message is clear. If you want to abuse something, you do not report it. As someone who tried to work with CCP, my advice to anyone in the future is. Don't.


Or rather, if you're going to abuse the system do it at your own risk. Confessing your crimes doesn't seem to get you off the hook.

If your interest is in helping improve the experience in the EvE community, just report the problem without abusing said problem. Then you can pat yourself on the back and maybe earn a little space respect.
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#1527 - 2012-06-22 20:11:54 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

Just like the FW LP won't be possible because the flawed mechanic will get fixed.


I think we both know that comparing the money made from insurance fraud, by countless players over many years, had much less of a dramatic impact than one small (comparatively) group of people acquiring over 900 trillion ISK's worth of items.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1528 - 2012-06-22 20:11:56 UTC
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Mess with the bull you get the horns.


oh please do gloat, it's funny when people who will never achieve so much as mediocrity in comparison gloat to their betters ;p

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#1529 - 2012-06-22 20:12:00 UTC
Wibla wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia: they spent several hundred billions of isk they had beforehand to buy stuff from the LP store, but I very much doubt that CCP will return that to them.

:CCP:


I doubt they will either.

They want to both be epic awesome smart exploiters and the noble great alliance that helps find gamebreaking bugs and point them out.

They can't have both all the way. It's one thing to point out the problem, it's another to sink tons of assets into making crap tons of assets using the problem and then expect it will just be all good.

They took this upon themselves. They knew what they were doing. Now they want to cry foul.

Where is the smug confidence and flawless intelligence flaunted in the OP?

Scams make you famous and rich.
Exploits make you famous and broke.
They KNEW this going into it and they did it to themselves. I said as much in my first post on page 5 or 6.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1530 - 2012-06-22 20:12:56 UTC
Inspiration wrote:
[quote=Aryth]Remember the deal with moon goo being produced out of nothing (i forgot the details)? The players in corporations involved in that, all got banned!


they did not ban everyone in the corps involved

where did you pull that from?

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1531 - 2012-06-22 20:13:48 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
acquiring over 900 trillion ISK's worth of items.

Uh. That number seems, uh, a bit overinflated.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Arrgthepirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1532 - 2012-06-22 20:13:50 UTC
At the end of the day, CCP only hurts themselves. Knowing what we do now, about CCPs new stance on game mechanics being used, why not let 100 people do it for a week. Create long term real effects. **** the sandbox, the sandbox is dead.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1533 - 2012-06-22 20:13:50 UTC
Ghost Xray wrote:
Aryth wrote:
CCP has now gone and nuked a ton of assets on our accounts. Meaning, we are losing wealth we had previous to this. Wow. But the message is clear. If you want to abuse something, you do not report it. As someone who tried to work with CCP, my advice to anyone in the future is. Don't.


Or rather, if you're going to abuse the system do it at your own risk. Confessing your crimes doesn't seem to get you off the hook.

If your interest is in helping improve the experience in the EvE community, just report the problem without abusing said problem. Then you can pat yourself on the back and maybe earn a little space respect.


This could have been abused quietly for months. It wasn't. Many were already prepping to do it judging from the responses in this thread. The major point being. There is no incentive to report anything to CCP. You are far better off trying to get away with it quietly.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#1534 - 2012-06-22 20:13:58 UTC
There is one word that sums this up.



Hubris.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1535 - 2012-06-22 20:14:20 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:

Just like the FW LP won't be possible because the flawed mechanic will get fixed.


I think we both know that comparing the money made from insurance fraud, by countless players over many years, had much less of a dramatic impact than one small (comparatively) group of people acquiring over 900 trillion ISK's worth of items.

where did you get 900 trillion

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#1536 - 2012-06-22 20:14:52 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Mess with the bull you get the horns.


oh please do gloat, it's funny when people who will never achieve so much as mediocrity in comparison gloat to their betters ;p


I have a wife and daughter. Mediocrity to some, but quite an achievement in my book. Good job, don't have to work too hard (get to talk on the interwebs)

As for breaking the EULA and becoming epic awesome internet spaceship nerds who both dont care about the game and care about it more than anything... yeah I'm not too good at that stuff. I'll just keep being mediocre and pew pewing in my rifter.

It's hard to get myself to sleep at night, facing the failure that is my internet personality, but that's what ambien is for.
asd3452
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1537 - 2012-06-22 20:15:20 UTC
The Goon ownership of, and profit from, Tech is a well known abuse of game mechanics. I, for one, can not wait until the alliance is dissolved for clear violations of the 'don't be good at Eve' rule CCP is enforcing.
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1538 - 2012-06-22 20:15:39 UTC
Inspiration wrote:
Aryth wrote:
CCP has now gone and nuked a ton of assets on our accounts. Meaning, we are losing wealth we had previous to this. Wow. But the message is clear. If you want to abuse something, you do not report it. As someone who tried to work with CCP, my advice to anyone in the future is. Don't.


That is a pretty single sided view on the matter.
If you had just proven the issue and not abuse it to no end, it would not been punished don't you think?

And in some way I think goons got off light here. Remember the deal with moon goo being produced out of nothing (i forgot the details)? The players in corporations involved in that, all got banned!

Scamming player is perfectly fine in this game, but NOT ALL scamming NPC so it seems. It would be good if CCP highlighted where the line is precisely. That way you would know for sure how far you can go!



Except we didn't exploit anything to do this. We used in game mechanics to their logical conclusion. It is not Aryth's fault that CCP did not QC or test their own patch, nor did they listen to the CSM when they were warned that this change was unwise.

But yes, CCP has set the bar quite effectively: If you find a market loophole, don't tell them. Instead, tell all your friends, and abuse it over the course of 6-12 months instead of 4 weeks.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1539 - 2012-06-22 20:15:50 UTC
Inspiration wrote:
And in some way I think goons got off light here. Remember the deal with moon goo being produced out of nothing (i forgot the details)? The players in corporations involved in that, all got banned!

They banned the people who exploited the bug, they didn't touch the rest of the people in that alliance.

I don't remember all the details, but it was something about a special way of setting up a reaction tower which meant you didn't have to refill the inputs, which meant ferrogel was just spawned out of thin air.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#1540 - 2012-06-22 20:15:57 UTC
Arrgthepirate wrote:
At the end of the day, CCP only hurts themselves. Knowing what we do now, about CCPs new stance on game mechanics being used, why not let 100 people do it for a week. Create long term real effects. **** the sandbox, the sandbox is dead.


Actually, they only hurt the ppl that used the exploit.

But just think of all the new customers the publicity will bring!