These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1301 - 2012-06-22 17:55:38 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Because you didn't read the ******* thread, because you are ******* trolling.

Nope.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#1302 - 2012-06-22 17:55:44 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Pisov viet wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
corestwo wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:

it just seems on the level of ppl that could duplicate minerals at a POS. It only hurts the game, I'm not a fan, sorry.


Yes, "taking the existing game mechanics to a significant but legitimate extreme" and "abusing a bug that allows your towers to continue to run and produce ferrogel even when inputs are no longer present" are totally the same thing.


The only people I've seen use the word legitimate are goons and people supporting their argument.

Unfortunately for them, CCP has not used this word. In fact, they're using anytonyms of legit. Not a good sign goonies /o\

The only people I've seen use the word abuse are goon haters and people supporting their argument. Checkmate, atheist.


Because you didn't read the ******* thread, because you are ******* trolling.

Pot, meet kettle.

Kettle, meet pot.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Better Than You
Doomheim
#1303 - 2012-06-22 17:55:49 UTC
I say set the goon wallet negative the five trillion isk they stole.
Dave stark
#1304 - 2012-06-22 17:56:07 UTC
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
If you get the thread to page 100, they'll let you keep your stuff.


Lol, no. I was just kidding. But do keep posting about how legit your exploit was.

are you the same kind of person that was sat in st paul's complaining about how bankers are making lots of money too?
Inspiration
#1305 - 2012-06-22 17:56:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Inspiration
michael boltonIII wrote:
Haha, these are the moments that really show that really show that some people are playing the game on a different level. I have prepared my tear collection equipment and wait with baited breadth for highsec players to commence filling my vats.


Level?

This is just a variation of a basic theme that has been around in EVE for like forever...raising its head now and then when mechanics change or new items/game play is introduced. I am very sure many such schemes on a much smaller scale have been going on.

It was the first question I asked myself when I saw the mechanics....WTF...it is just so obvious the system is flawed and easily rigged. But you need to be extremely rich to make big bucks from it or very patient and hope no one else finds out for a long time (good luck with that).

The obvious glaring hole in FW is that both sides are controlled by players and the rewards come form NPC. Team up and you got a win and that is exactly what goons did. All they had to do is trick the NPC into using a ridicules price!

Goons beat the C-team that is CCP when it comes to insight, thinking and mechanics (they got a terrible record). SInce this is a PvP sandbox as all the big mouth 0.0 players have always claimed. Why not nullify all their illicit gains? If that is impossible, just take the 100b form each player and ban them forever afterwards, so they cannot buy new characters (many will have done so already no doubt).

Either way, CCP must act, else this game is rigged for eternity, with so much wealth at the hands of so few that are basically a form a ISK cartel.

I am serious!

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#1306 - 2012-06-22 17:56:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Chribba
Nice pixels. I love this game! Smile

Wonder what will happen now...

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#1307 - 2012-06-22 17:58:39 UTC
http://eveinfo.net/wiki/ind~1919.htm

For those who want to know more about Darius JOHNSON.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#1308 - 2012-06-22 17:58:41 UTC
corestwo wrote:

Yes, CCP's decision is king here, as always, and if they label it an exploit, that's their perogative. However, most players - the ones without an axe to grind, anyway - can look at this and tell that there is a clear difference between an obvious glitch such as in the ferrogel case, and this.



Indeed. Stories like this, stories about massive corp thefts and scams, stories of huge fleet battles - this is what draws people to eve. Stories of mining rocks in empire? Not so much...

No axe to grind here - supported Gameplay (no matter by whom) when it was good. This is obviously not functioning as intended, and so isn't good.


vOv


No biggie - CCP will deal with it how they want.


Flashfresh and his blog, along with "Guiding Hand Social Club" activities brought me originally to Eve - Huge Fleet Battles? Not so much, unless Honor Harrington was in command...

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Pisov viet
Perkone
Caldari State
#1309 - 2012-06-22 17:58:42 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Pisov viet wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
corestwo wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:

it just seems on the level of ppl that could duplicate minerals at a POS. It only hurts the game, I'm not a fan, sorry.


Yes, "taking the existing game mechanics to a significant but legitimate extreme" and "abusing a bug that allows your towers to continue to run and produce ferrogel even when inputs are no longer present" are totally the same thing.


The only people I've seen use the word legitimate are goons and people supporting their argument.

Unfortunately for them, CCP has not used this word. In fact, they're using anytonyms of legit. Not a good sign goonies /o\

The only people I've seen use the word abuse are goon haters and people supporting their argument. Checkmate, atheist.


Because you didn't read the ******* thread, because you are ******* trolling.

Because I actually read the post of Sreeg, and he talked of "manpulation", not "abuse".
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#1310 - 2012-06-22 17:59:57 UTC
Inspiration wrote:
Either way, CCP must act, else this game is rigged for eternity with so much wealth at the hands of so few.


You think that "this much wealth" in so few players hands is anything new?

For example, have you looked at how much Somer Blink has paid out lately, and then considered how much his rake on top of that much be? It makes us look like a bunch of beggars. Blink

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Ghost Xray
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1311 - 2012-06-22 18:00:10 UTC
corestwo wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
corestwo wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:

it just seems on the level of ppl that could duplicate minerals at a POS. It only hurts the game, I'm not a fan, sorry.


Yes, "taking the existing game mechanics to a significant but legitimate extreme" and "abusing a bug that allows your towers to continue to run and produce ferrogel even when inputs are no longer present" are totally the same thing.


The only people I've seen use the word legitimate are goons and people supporting their argument.

Unfortunately for them, CCP has not used this word. In fact, they're using anytonyms of legit. Not a good sign goonies /o\

Yes, CCP's decision is king here, as always, and if they label it an exploit, that's their perogative. However, most players - the ones without an axe to grind, anyway - can look at this and tell that there is a clear difference between an obvious glitch such as in the ferrogel case, and this.

Vokanic wrote:
and in both cases it will drive new players to eve. and thats why this is such a fine edged blade that ccp dance on. (and no other game company ever will I suspect)


Indeed. Stories like this, stories about massive corp thefts and scams, stories of huge fleet battles - this is what draws people to eve. Stories of mining rocks in empire? Not so much...


True.

But stories about how exploiting factional warfare by blowing up your own ships with alts does not drive new players to a game, unless they hope they too can exploit it, and god knows we don't need more of these types of players.

Do you really think suiciding you own ships into your own alts is "emerging" gameplay?

No, that is a black eye to the CCP dev team and not something they are going to put into a cool video.

Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#1312 - 2012-06-22 18:01:10 UTC
corestwo wrote:
Inspiration wrote:
Either way, CCP must act, else this game is rigged for eternity with so much wealth at the hands of so few.


You think that "this much wealth" in so few players hands is anything new?

For example, have you looked at how much Somer Blink has paid out lately, and then considered how much his rake on top of that much be? It makes us look like a bunch of beggars. Blink

Lets not forget Akita T, or Chribba.

Those are the rich bastards ruining your game. They make most people's wallets look like my RL bank account. Empty.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#1313 - 2012-06-22 18:01:11 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Please provide a 10 page essay summarizing your thesis with complete references (I want library stuff, not internet!)

Roll

Let's try this again:


By way of explanation we addressed the manipulation issue but haven't yet completed the investigation into the scope of the abuse. Once that happens I'm pretty sure some people are going to be a bit less smug about the money they made that one time when there was a bank error in their favor and then lost again when the bank fixed the glitch.

You gamed the game. That's an exploit. You didn't make things appear out of thin air, there were 3 steps you had to take first, whoppity-do big difference.

I didn't say quote Sreegs, ex-CEO of Goonswarm, the man who said they were there to ruin your game, said in a knee jerk reaction to what at first glance would appear to be a bug(tho a good, solid look shows its usage of game mechanics, for the most part) said.

YOU are making accusations. The burden of proof is on YOU.

Or are you not familiar with the concept of innocent until PROVEN guilty?

Edit: Oh, and don't point fingers at me. I am not a goon, and I am in particular not one of the 5 people who masterminded this.


Are there bugs that are not usage of game mechanics?

Like, they use bugs in other games to make ... wait.

I OBJECT your honor. *points finger* YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH

I doubt it was a knee jerk reaction. It was a follow up to a public company statement about a security investigation, probably had several CCP staff review it, stamp it. Dignitaries of dignitaries and that sort of thing. It's all rather complicated.

They do that type of thing all the time for legit gameplay.
Ziranda Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1314 - 2012-06-22 18:02:21 UTC
Better Than You wrote:
I say set the goon wallet negative the five trillion isk they stole.


No. but you are on the right track of thinking. this is what i think should happen
1> all those in the FW get the isk remoced from their wallet whether they gave it to another toon or corp or alliance.
2> all isk given to a toon, Corp, or alliance wallet is also removed charging a fine to doubling the amount.
3> all those in the FW are 30 day ban including any alt accounts that they may have
4> All those behind the planning are 30 day ban
5> all those who supported this are 60day bans.

With this here ALL the GOONs and their pets would be banned in this for a minimum of 30days and will return to negative wallets. well hopefully negative wallets and their space claimed by someone else. xDeath would have new space then
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#1315 - 2012-06-22 18:03:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
CCP's always asking us to Beta Test their software in a commercial environment after it's deemed "ready for release."

We pay for a half-baked half-developed product at least half the time.

All Goons did here was some really, really good Beta Testing.

Nevermind the initial feedback that was ignored, right? A Viking's gonna do what a Viking's gonna do...

We couldn't change that then. We can't change that now.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1316 - 2012-06-22 18:04:09 UTC
Ghost Xray wrote:


True.

But stories about how exploiting factional warfare by blowing up your own ships with alts does not drive new players to a game, unless they hope they too can exploit it, and god knows we don't need more of these types of players.


Sure it does. The draw of EVE is the beautiful sandbox. Oh sure, someone might take a steaming dump in it from time to time, or leave tire tracks all over it, but that is the point. You don't get this type of sandbox anywhere else. It is the sole territory of EVE.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#1317 - 2012-06-22 18:05:06 UTC
Ghost Xray wrote:

True.

But stories about how exploiting factional warfare by blowing up your own ships with alts does not drive new players to a game, unless they hope they too can exploit it, and god knows we don't need more of these types of players.

Do you really think suiciding you own ships into your own alts is "emerging" gameplay?

No, that is a black eye to the CCP dev team and not something they are going to put into a cool video.


Stories of people able to completely own the game like this ARE why people join.

People said the same thing you are saying about burn jita. I sat in a chatroom for one of the live streams while this was going on. I saw a good number of people see what was going on, ask about it and be told the truth, and immediately ask for a buddy invite so they could check it out. They wanted to be in a game where a few people could completely dominate like this, because hey, if they work hard enough, it could be them.

And its true, any noob, given the investment, motivation, and intelligence, can compete on this level with the best of them.

You should be ashamed that you are whining about it instead of trying to compete.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Paint
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1318 - 2012-06-22 18:05:48 UTC
Goons did something - QUICK TO THE EVE O FENCE TO LET GOONS KNOW HOW PUBBIES FEEL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gROO7xSTxfY
Dave stark
#1319 - 2012-06-22 18:07:05 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:

Stories of people able to completely own the game like this ARE why people join.


truth, it's why i joined the game.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#1320 - 2012-06-22 18:08:31 UTC
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:

Are there bugs that are not usage of game mechanics?

The tracking bug in wormholes. That was a bug, not a mechanic. You should learn the difference before you open your mouth about the issue.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.