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Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1281 - 2012-06-22 17:38:31 UTC
it is also like a sonnet where it is like one

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#1282 - 2012-06-22 17:38:36 UTC
Pisov viet wrote:

Because they realized their design was flawed and was producing aweful results. Does that mean they should punish players who played according to that design?


Punishment and reversing the gains are two different things. No need to make something a federal case when you can just negate the impact and move on.

You'll note CCP didn't use the word play. They used the word abuse.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#1283 - 2012-06-22 17:39:00 UTC
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Dramaticus wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
[quote=darmwand]
it just seems on the level of ppl that could duplicate minerals at a POS. It only hurts the game, I'm not a fan, sorry.


Except its nothing like that?


Except where it is, yeah.

Please explain, in detail, how it is like that. You can't make claims and back them up with nothing but 'Yes it is!' if you want anyone to see you as anything but a meaningless NPC alt troll.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Innywuhne
Doomheim
#1284 - 2012-06-22 17:41:03 UTC
It sure does look like Hans Jagerblitzen and Kelduum are being severely schooled by their fellow CSM members. You guys are in waaaaaaay over your heads.
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#1285 - 2012-06-22 17:41:16 UTC
corestwo wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:

it just seems on the level of ppl that could duplicate minerals at a POS. It only hurts the game, I'm not a fan, sorry.


Yes, "taking the existing game mechanics to a significant but legitimate extreme" and "abusing a bug that allows your towers to continue to run and produce ferrogel even when inputs are no longer present" are totally the same thing.


The only people I've seen use the word legitimate are goons and people supporting their argument.

Unfortunately for them, CCP has not used this word. In fact, they're using anytonyms of legit. Not a good sign goonies /o\
Vokanic
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1286 - 2012-06-22 17:41:17 UTC
corestwo wrote:
No More Heroes wrote:
Gee there goes Eve Online in the news again. I wonder why.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/06/22/eve-players-make-over-175000-blowing-up-their-own-spaceships/

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/22/eve-players-abuse-faction-warfare-to-produce-trillions-of-isk/


The considerably different tone in these articles is amusing. Guess which of these authors does not like goons, and which either likes us or is ambivalent? Blink

(hint the answer is that I'm pretty sure Brendan Drain was the guy who mittens ripped a new one over his sensationalist "reporting" of the fanfest fiasco)


and in both cases it will drive new players to eve. and thats why this is such a fine edged blade that ccp dance on. (and no other game company ever will I suspect)
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#1287 - 2012-06-22 17:44:37 UTC
Vokanic wrote:
corestwo wrote:
No More Heroes wrote:
Gee there goes Eve Online in the news again. I wonder why.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/06/22/eve-players-make-over-175000-blowing-up-their-own-spaceships/

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/22/eve-players-abuse-faction-warfare-to-produce-trillions-of-isk/


The considerably different tone in these articles is amusing. Guess which of these authors does not like goons, and which either likes us or is ambivalent? Blink

(hint the answer is that I'm pretty sure Brendan Drain was the guy who mittens ripped a new one over his sensationalist "reporting" of the fanfest fiasco)


and in both cases it will drive new players to eve. and thats why this is such a fine edged blade that ccp dance on. (and no other game company ever will I suspect)

I know its stories like this that brought me, and quite a few RL friends who play, to join EVE.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#1288 - 2012-06-22 17:44:40 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Dramaticus wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
[quote=darmwand]
it just seems on the level of ppl that could duplicate minerals at a POS. It only hurts the game, I'm not a fan, sorry.


Except its nothing like that?


Except where it is, yeah.

Please explain, in detail, how it is like that. You can't make claims and back them up with nothing but 'Yes it is!' if you want anyone to see you as anything but a meaningless NPC alt troll.


Please provide a 10 page essay summarizing your thesis with complete references (I want library stuff, not internet!)

Roll

Let's try this again:


By way of explanation we addressed the manipulation issue but haven't yet completed the investigation into the scope of the abuse. Once that happens I'm pretty sure some people are going to be a bit less smug about the money they made that one time when there was a bank error in their favor and then lost again when the bank fixed the glitch.

You gamed the game. That's an exploit. You didn't make things appear out of thin air, there were 3 steps you had to take first, whoppity-do big difference.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#1289 - 2012-06-22 17:44:48 UTC  |  Edited by: corestwo
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
corestwo wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:

it just seems on the level of ppl that could duplicate minerals at a POS. It only hurts the game, I'm not a fan, sorry.


Yes, "taking the existing game mechanics to a significant but legitimate extreme" and "abusing a bug that allows your towers to continue to run and produce ferrogel even when inputs are no longer present" are totally the same thing.


The only people I've seen use the word legitimate are goons and people supporting their argument.

Unfortunately for them, CCP has not used this word. In fact, they're using anytonyms of legit. Not a good sign goonies /o\

Yes, CCP's decision is king here, as always, and if they label it an exploit, that's their perogative. However, most players - the ones without an axe to grind, anyway - can look at this and tell that there is a clear difference between an obvious glitch such as in the ferrogel case, and this.

Vokanic wrote:
and in both cases it will drive new players to eve. and thats why this is such a fine edged blade that ccp dance on. (and no other game company ever will I suspect)


Indeed. Stories like this, stories about massive corp thefts and scams, stories of huge fleet battles - this is what draws people to eve. Stories of mining rocks in empire? Not so much...

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#1290 - 2012-06-22 17:45:11 UTC
These are some good comments:

AwesomeAssassin says:
05:19pm June 22 2012
wonder if ccp do anything about it, though i like that the whole universe of eve is "on its own", not altered so much by ccp.

Computer (Easy) says:
05:19pm June 22 2012
Eve Online: Economic Anarchy at it's Extreme.
Edit: More like economic lunacy.

impishrazor says:
05:29pm June 22 2012
That is ******* awesome.

.
Pisov viet
Perkone
Caldari State
#1291 - 2012-06-22 17:46:00 UTC
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
corestwo wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:

it just seems on the level of ppl that could duplicate minerals at a POS. It only hurts the game, I'm not a fan, sorry.


Yes, "taking the existing game mechanics to a significant but legitimate extreme" and "abusing a bug that allows your towers to continue to run and produce ferrogel even when inputs are no longer present" are totally the same thing.


The only people I've seen use the word legitimate are goons and people supporting their argument.

Unfortunately for them, CCP has not used this word. In fact, they're using anytonyms of legit. Not a good sign goonies /o\

The only people I've seen use the word abuse are goon haters and people supporting their argument. Checkmate, atheist.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1292 - 2012-06-22 17:48:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
The only people I've seen use the word legitimate are goons and people supporting their argument.

Yes, the group of people who dislike us would surely not use any opportunity to twist and maim the truth in any way shape or form, kind of like they did when the mittani incident hit. You know, the incident where the players and the media probably did more damage by repeatedly and loudly spread the miner's name, everywhere.

No sirree, that group is honourable.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1293 - 2012-06-22 17:48:21 UTC
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:


By way of explanation we addressed the manipulation issue but haven't yet completed the investigation into the scope of the abuse. Once that happens I'm pretty sure some people are going to be a bit less smug about the money they made that one time when there was a bank error in their favor and then lost again when the bank fixed the glitch.

You gamed the game. That's an exploit. You didn't make things appear out of thin air, there were 3 steps you had to take first, whoppity-do big difference.


So your proof that this is like duping minerals at a POS is a post from CCP Sreegs that confirms they are looking to what occurred. Gotcha.

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#1294 - 2012-06-22 17:49:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallian Saotome
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Please provide a 10 page essay summarizing your thesis with complete references (I want library stuff, not internet!)

Roll

Let's try this again:


By way of explanation we addressed the manipulation issue but haven't yet completed the investigation into the scope of the abuse. Once that happens I'm pretty sure some people are going to be a bit less smug about the money they made that one time when there was a bank error in their favor and then lost again when the bank fixed the glitch.

You gamed the game. That's an exploit. You didn't make things appear out of thin air, there were 3 steps you had to take first, whoppity-do big difference.

I didn't say quote Sreegs, ex-CEO of Goonswarm, the man who said they were there to ruin your game, said in a knee jerk reaction to what at first glance would appear to be a bug(tho a good, solid look shows its usage of game mechanics, for the most part) said.

YOU are making accusations. The burden of proof is on YOU.

Or are you not familiar with the concept of innocent until PROVEN guilty?

Edit: Oh, and don't point fingers at me. I am not a goon, and I am in particular not one of the 5 people who masterminded this.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#1295 - 2012-06-22 17:51:26 UTC
Pisov viet wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
corestwo wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:

it just seems on the level of ppl that could duplicate minerals at a POS. It only hurts the game, I'm not a fan, sorry.


Yes, "taking the existing game mechanics to a significant but legitimate extreme" and "abusing a bug that allows your towers to continue to run and produce ferrogel even when inputs are no longer present" are totally the same thing.


The only people I've seen use the word legitimate are goons and people supporting their argument.

Unfortunately for them, CCP has not used this word. In fact, they're using anytonyms of legit. Not a good sign goonies /o\

The only people I've seen use the word abuse are goon haters and people supporting their argument. Checkmate, atheist.


And CCP on page 3.. or is it 4?

GOAAAAAAAAAL
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1296 - 2012-06-22 17:52:07 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1517550#post1517550

CCP karkur wrote:

I'm not sure... I'm a girl/female/woman and I didn't know the "correct" answer P



There is a quote from CCP karkur stating that she is a woman/girl/female. Therefore I can only assume that using a microwarpdrive to warp in 10 seconds is an exploit.

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#1297 - 2012-06-22 17:52:58 UTC
90% of these people in this thread has forget one key thing

THIS IS EVE




CONGRATS TO THE GOONS on a job well done. They did the testing, they did the work and they figured it out.

This is eve. If CCP punishes Goons for this it would be absolutely against the spirit of the game.

The goons did not exploit anything. They figured out how the mechanics worked and worked the mechanics.

It is CCP's job to ensure the mechanics work to what they are supposed to work. To say "well we didn't mean it to work that way" is bull. Its your job to ensure it works. If you find a hole you patch it.

Good job GOONS

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#1298 - 2012-06-22 17:53:38 UTC
If you get the thread to page 100, they'll let you keep your stuff.


Lol, no. I was just kidding. But do keep posting about how legit your exploit was.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#1299 - 2012-06-22 17:53:47 UTC
CCP designed the virtual equivalent of a money tree and then called it abuse when somebody set about harvesting.

This reminds me of a story in a really, really old book.

HEY! ONE OF THE CHARACTERS IN THE STORY WAS EVE!

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#1300 - 2012-06-22 17:53:53 UTC
Pisov viet wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
corestwo wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:

it just seems on the level of ppl that could duplicate minerals at a POS. It only hurts the game, I'm not a fan, sorry.


Yes, "taking the existing game mechanics to a significant but legitimate extreme" and "abusing a bug that allows your towers to continue to run and produce ferrogel even when inputs are no longer present" are totally the same thing.


The only people I've seen use the word legitimate are goons and people supporting their argument.

Unfortunately for them, CCP has not used this word. In fact, they're using anytonyms of legit. Not a good sign goonies /o\

The only people I've seen use the word abuse are goon haters and people supporting their argument. Checkmate, atheist.


Because you didn't read the ******* thread, because you are ******* trolling.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it