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Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#1161 - 2012-06-22 15:21:44 UTC  |  Edited by: corestwo
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Carlos Aranda wrote:

. Others also have of course ship reimbursement programs. In other words, the wealth does not reach the average Goon. Where is that money?



Why should they give ISK to the average Goon?
Even the communist USSR brass had their nice villas while everybody else sucked the hard nuts.


Anyway here's the fairest punishment for those 5 guys:

2 years of obligatory work in CCP as coders and QA testers.


Either this will be a suitable Dante's alike retaliation and will make them experiment their own stuff.

And / or

EvE's game code quality will increase 3 fold.

Win on all the line.


CCP cannot afford to pay any of us, especially if they would want us in Iceland. We may be happy to do remote consulting, of course. Twisted

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1162 - 2012-06-22 15:21:44 UTC
Haquer wrote:

Only morons dump what they're sitting on into the markets (and this is why the mineral market is crashing downward -- morons)


Mineral markets are crashing because of another 2 reasons, I let you guess which is.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1163 - 2012-06-22 15:25:26 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Haquer wrote:

Only morons dump what they're sitting on into the markets (and this is why the mineral market is crashing downward -- morons)


Mineral markets are crashing because of another 2 reasons, I let you guess which is.

"mineral markets" are not crashing

some minerals are crashing, some are spiking, (highends and lowends respectively)

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#1164 - 2012-06-22 15:27:19 UTC
Goremageddon Box wrote:
congrats goons. good exploitation is good.


I wouldn't toss the E word about so casually.

.
Ghost Xray
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1165 - 2012-06-22 15:28:29 UTC
Aryth wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Ghost Xray wrote:
If that were true, I'd expect they'd say, "Oh, and here, you should probably take back these LP's we gained because in the hands of a villain, they may then try to dominate the market with it and that'd given them an unfair advantage", instead of "hell yeah, WE B SPACE RICH!! TO THE FORUMS TO GLOAT!!!"

Nothing wrong trying to make a living helping CCP with game design. The goons did this one good me think. But maybe they tried to get away with to much. And why wouldn't you brag if you made 5 trillion ISK?


We are not making any attempt to hide the fact we wanted to profit. I don't believe profit and keeping the game sane are mutually exclusive.


Aryth wrote:

No. I purposely told CCP, frantically you could say. Where I screwed up is, well I am bad at twitter as I only have twitter to ask Diagoras for stats. I didn't realize it's public if I sent something to Punkturis. Whoops.


And this is what I personally take issue with. You knew all along it was an error/bug/bad code/bad design (note where you "frantically" went to tell CCP Punkturis about this horrible error) and yet set out to make profit from it. And that is exactly what CCP said would be ban worthy.

Am I missing something here?
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1166 - 2012-06-22 15:28:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Aryth
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Carlos Aranda wrote:

. Others also have of course ship reimbursement programs. In other words, the wealth does not reach the average Goon. Where is that money?


Anyway here's the fairest punishment for those 5 guys:

2 years of obligatory work in CCP as coders and QA testers.



I think CSM or "in the know" positions would be the worst thing imaginable. The reason I like EVE is the ability to conduct large scale manipulations (Interdiction/BurnJita/This/Minerals) or to speculate on patches (PI/POCO/Minerals again/Datacores etc) The CSM essentially surrenders their right to trade/manip/spec on patches for being in the know. I would consider it torture to be "in the know" and not be able to use the information. Since it means I would no longer be able to play EVE in the way I always have.

PS. Edit. Of course. I guess at a certain point, enough is enough eh. ISK wise. Though I am still not sure what that point is.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1167 - 2012-06-22 15:31:04 UTC
Ghost Xray wrote:
Aryth wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Ghost Xray wrote:
If that were true, I'd expect they'd say, "Oh, and here, you should probably take back these LP's we gained because in the hands of a villain, they may then try to dominate the market with it and that'd given them an unfair advantage", instead of "hell yeah, WE B SPACE RICH!! TO THE FORUMS TO GLOAT!!!"

Nothing wrong trying to make a living helping CCP with game design. The goons did this one good me think. But maybe they tried to get away with to much. And why wouldn't you brag if you made 5 trillion ISK?


We are not making any attempt to hide the fact we wanted to profit. I don't believe profit and keeping the game sane are mutually exclusive.


Aryth wrote:

No. I purposely told CCP, frantically you could say. Where I screwed up is, well I am bad at twitter as I only have twitter to ask Diagoras for stats. I didn't realize it's public if I sent something to Punkturis. Whoops.


And this is what I personally take issue with. You knew all along it was an error/bug/bad code/bad design (note where you "frantically" went to tell CCP Punkturis about this horrible error) and yet set out to make profit from it. And that is exactly what CCP said would be ban worthy.

Am I missing something here?


It was frantic because we felt others doing this was imminent. Leaks etc. It's one thing to have a very controlled profit taking with a handful of people It's quite another for EVE at large to figure things out and dogpile. One is healthy for the game, the other is not.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#1168 - 2012-06-22 15:35:55 UTC
Aryth wrote:
It was frantic because we felt others doing this was imminent. Leaks etc. It's one thing to have a very controlled profit taking with a handful of people It's quite another for EVE at large to figure things out and dogpile. One is healthy for the game, the other is not.

In other words, you didn't want anyone else profiting too.

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1169 - 2012-06-22 15:38:20 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Aryth wrote:
It was frantic because we felt others doing this was imminent. Leaks etc. It's one thing to have a very controlled profit taking with a handful of people It's quite another for EVE at large to figure things out and dogpile. One is healthy for the game, the other is not.

In other words, you didn't want anyone else profiting too.


Yes. This is true. There is a certain point where it would have done long term damage to the LP markets. 5 guys cranking out is limited in scope. 100 or 1000 guys doing it...not so much.

But I will readily admit I don't want to share the markets with others. I want max profit, that means carefully managing the very fields we tilled. I don't see anything wrong with this at all.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#1170 - 2012-06-22 15:39:22 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Aryth wrote:
It was frantic because we felt others doing this was imminent. Leaks etc. It's one thing to have a very controlled profit taking with a handful of people It's quite another for EVE at large to figure things out and dogpile. One is healthy for the game, the other is not.

In other words, you didn't want anyone else profiting too.

Basically.....

It's bad for the game if *everyone* does it... Ugh

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Gul'gotha Derv'ash
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1171 - 2012-06-22 15:39:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Gul'gotha Derv'ash
Aryth wrote:


It was frantic because we felt others doing this was imminent. Leaks etc. It's one thing to have a very controlled profit taking with a handful of people It's quite another for EVE at large to figure things out and dogpile. One is healthy for the game, the other is not.



So because you are goons you feel entitled to be allowed to exploit a game mechanic with no repercussions, and you claim it is "ok" to do because you "frantically" tried to report it all the while continuing doing the thing you had been reporting as a bug/exploit/etc?

And again, the only reason you even posted this thread and probably alerted CCP was because you leaked it on accident.

Your logic is mind boggling...
White Carnation
SYNDIC Unlimited
#1172 - 2012-06-22 15:41:32 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
White Carnation wrote:
Then, when somneone bottoms out the datacore market, we get r*yally scr*wed.

Goons, how about sum luv (and a couple bill ISK each) for the poor victims of your market manipulation. Look at it as spreading the wealth, which wilkl all come back to you viia the technetium monopoly


after much discussion, we have decided to honour your request, however, we will not give you ISK, but advice

never have all of your eggs in the same basket



Thank you -- I didn't.

I still got unknowingly spanked. Now, if you'd *told* us what you were doing ...


Anyway, if you ever *want* some Mech Eng datacores, I will do you a good deal -- say Idea 10% below Jita, and you throw in a free Dramiel, which word has it you're overloaded with.
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1173 - 2012-06-22 15:41:32 UTC
Aryth wrote:
It was frantic because we felt others doing this was imminent. Leaks etc. It's one thing to have a very controlled profit taking with a handful of people It's quite another for EVE at large to figure things out and dogpile. One is healthy for the game, the other is not.


You: A handful of people getting tons of profit off a design flaw is healthy for the game.

Interesting.

.
Tallon Sylph
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1174 - 2012-06-22 15:41:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallon Sylph
All you pubbies must be sick of Goons winning at Eve Online like every other damn day.

Goons win at Tech Wars. The pubbie cry; Quick, nerf Tech!

Goons win at market manipulation; Quick, ban these guys for being smarter thanus (and CCP)!

Maybe you should all just get better at Eve and quit complaining huh.
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
True Reign
#1175 - 2012-06-22 15:42:08 UTC
Aryth wrote:


It was frantic because we felt others doing this was imminent. Leaks etc. It's one thing to have a very controlled profit taking with a handful of people It's quite another for EVE at large to figure things out and dogpile. One is healthy for the game, the other is not.


Now this is hypocrisy. It's okay if we do it but not if the game at large does it. Sure. What I do is always healthy for the game, it's the other guy that's the problem.
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
True Reign
#1176 - 2012-06-22 15:43:47 UTC
Tallon Sylph wrote:
All you pubbies must be sick of Goons winning at Eve Online like every other damn day.


Nope. Not me, anyway. If I'm sick of anything it's your constant self-congratulation.
Zedrik Cayne
Standards and Practices
#1177 - 2012-06-22 15:44:17 UTC
AHA...Finally made it through all the slog.

Well done. Smart people doing smart things and actually having enough resources/alts/friends to pull it off.

(Be back in VFK soon, while I got podded back to empire I had some more business to attend)

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#1178 - 2012-06-22 15:44:20 UTC
Ghost Xray wrote:
Meno Theaetetus wrote:


I very much doubt CCP want to send out the message that although this is a sandbox, market manipulation, because that was what this was, is only allowed to go as far as to make you a little bit of money, make a lot and you're 'exploiting' the system.


I don't think anyone thinks the exploit happened in the market; the exploit happened in getting LP's.

If it wasn't "wrong" or "a bug", then why would they even bother reporting it to CCP in the first place? If they really believed what they were doing was legit, they'd still be doing it and you can bet you wouldn't hear it from them.

What they did was grab up as much as they thought they could get away with. "Ohhh, CCP, it's no biggie, right? It's just 5tril worth of ISK. It's a drop in the bucket. You made a bad call, we exploited it, lets just call it a wash and go about our space business."

EVE has always been a realm where you could exploit stupid mechanics like this for as long as they exist, as long as it wasn't a bug, and the devs had not declared it an exploit.

Go try it, its alot of fun to feel that rush from knowing you outsmarted a dev. If its not a bug, and its not already declared an exploit, go nuts, have fun, and walk away space rich.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that we are in this game to ruthlessly exploit any advantage we can gain over everyone else?

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Tallon Sylph
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1179 - 2012-06-22 15:45:04 UTC
We can stop congratulating ourselves when we stop winning.

So never basically, given how awful you all are at this game.
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1180 - 2012-06-22 15:45:08 UTC
Ban Bindy wrote:
Aryth wrote:


It was frantic because we felt others doing this was imminent. Leaks etc. It's one thing to have a very controlled profit taking with a handful of people It's quite another for EVE at large to figure things out and dogpile. One is healthy for the game, the other is not.


Now this is hypocrisy. It's okay if we do it but not if the game at large does it. Sure. What I do is always healthy for the game, it's the other guy that's the problem.


This is much more explanatory than my post.

Seconded.

.