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Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

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Dave stark
#541 - 2012-06-21 23:09:32 UTC
Project X5
Doomheim
#542 - 2012-06-21 23:10:33 UTC
Hello
Rikanin
Mining Reloaded
The Commonwealth.
#543 - 2012-06-21 23:11:14 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:

Serious question Sreegs, is this kind of thing actually cheating ? (ie against the rules) I read their document a couple of nights ago and though sure it really did blow massive holes through the eve game mechanics in order to make a giant profit - was it actually illegal ?



jade i'm pretty sure you didn't read a document written a day ago several days ago


okay it would have been in the early hours of wed morning so lets say so a day and a half ago (or two nights) - which in english means "a couple" ... sometimes Weasoliar you are so nitpicky its positively cringworthy.



That's what trolls do, silly.
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
#544 - 2012-06-21 23:12:39 UTC
I enjoy Goons. Cool

Also I'm pretty sure that it can't be considered exploiting when it comes to profiting off of calculations that were deliberately programmed into the game, even if CCP later decides those calculations weren't achieving what they wanted. Anyone remember when in a certain kind of wormhole you could hit your own fleetmembers with tracking disruptors to give their turrets unlimited range and tracking? Pretty sure nobody got banned after that news got broken (publicly, on the forum.)

                      "LIVE FAST DIE." - traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#545 - 2012-06-21 23:15:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Hobb
Dirk Magnum wrote:
Also I'm pretty sure that it can't be considered exploiting when it comes to profiting off of calculations that were deliberately programmed into the game, even if CCP later decides those calculations weren't achieving what they wanted. Anyone remember when in a certain kind of wormhole you could hit your own fleetmembers with tracking disruptors to give their turrets unlimited range and tracking? Pretty sure nobody got banned after that news got broken (publicly, on the forum.)

I seem to recall that RNK video talking about how AHARM lost some ISK over that (did I get the tickers right?), but I don't think anyone got banned. I don't expect anyone to get banned over this either, but they might lose some assets.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Stukkler Tian
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#546 - 2012-06-21 23:15:44 UTC
This puts me in a bit of a pickle as an amarr milita guy. I would like nothing more than to beat the tar out of the minnies (you know on the map thing not just when i undock and fight the few minmitar ships that actually have guns) yet now if i do i will help expand the cloud of smug forming over goon heads. All I can say is damn your good.
On a related note im still not sure about how the mechanics work for milita, I just know it gets me fights and fun. How exactly were goons proping up the minmitar? I always assumed it was the npc target painters that were doing that.
also I hope all those involved are real life milionairs because using that sort of talent and energy on a game is kind of a waste.
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
#547 - 2012-06-21 23:16:22 UTC
*chuckles* all i can say is well done goons :) you guys keep making me smile so much, no this isnt a goon alt, though sometimes i wish it was :)

good job :)
Rikanin
Mining Reloaded
The Commonwealth.
#548 - 2012-06-21 23:17:36 UTC
Tomytronic wrote:
so Jade, please tell us more about how intimately you are involved with secretive goon operations

because we'd just love to hear it :alltears:


Fixed
Rellik B00n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#549 - 2012-06-21 23:18:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Rellik B00n
Does this mean you will pay me for the miners Ive killed now?

I keep waiting for the ISK to appear but it never does Sad

edit: also, good effort, I wish I could bring myself to give enough of a **** about a computer game to do stuff like this but I just cant, you certainly knocked the **** out of this one, GJ.
[Of a request for change ask: Who Benefits?](https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=199765)
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#550 - 2012-06-21 23:20:36 UTC
Dirk Magnum wrote:
I enjoy Goons. Cool

Also I'm pretty sure that it can't be considered exploiting when it comes to profiting off of calculations that were deliberately programmed into the game, even if CCP later decides those calculations weren't achieving what they wanted. Anyone remember when in a certain kind of wormhole you could hit your own fleetmembers with tracking disruptors to give their turrets unlimited range and tracking? Pretty sure nobody got banned after that news got broken (publicly, on the forum.)


I'm also pretty sure no one got banned or had isk confiscated when the insurance and shifting mineral prices suddenly (and, until they changed it, permanently) let people self destruct battleships for a profit, too. Blink

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Ryunosuke Kusanagi
#551 - 2012-06-21 23:21:03 UTC
Aryth wrote:
ModeratedToSilence wrote:
Ryunosuke Kusanagi wrote:
this whole thread is tl:dr (did read the OP though)

so we have
1) Goons being Goons, finding a loophole in the system, and exploiting it to the nth degree
2) CCP patches Loophole
3) Goons make post of what they did
4) Pubbies cry that Goons exploited a loophole in the coding and rigged the markets, calls for bannings with thier pitchforks and torches. (ie. typical Thursday Evening in EVE online)

did I miss anything? :)



Pretty much except:
1. Your use of the word exploit is different to the meaning that CCP use it for.
2. Goons supposedly tried to pass information regarding loophole on to CCP prior to utlising current mechanics (evidenced by twitter post - claimed by aryth)
3. The tears have been pretty limited
4. Much of the thread is Goons making many posts.


I think most people, judging by the thread see this for what it is. Playing in the sandbox. Albeit in a very hardcore way. The issue with conveying a warning to CCP is, they have to understand the warning. If you are not a market person, the warning won't even make sense. It's a hard thing to convince someone that knows nothing about what you are talking about, that something is "a big deal". Especially since the next time the update ran, there was going to be an LP supernova.



and that's what I see it is, just another day in the life of an EVE online Capsuleer,

As for the way that you described it, indeed made it sounds as bad as it was. I think of it like the bounty system, only for FW and with LP instead of ISK,, and the ability to cheaply turn said LP into ISK, would that be a fair analogy?
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#552 - 2012-06-21 23:21:22 UTC
Rellik B00n wrote:
Does this mean you will pay me for the miners Ive killed now?

I keep waiting for the ISK to appear but it never does Sad

edit: also, good effort, I wish I could bring myself to give enough of a **** about a computer game to do stuff like this but I just cant, you certainly knocked the **** out of this one, GJ.


You're not on the list, v0v

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Ninlarra
Ninlarra Brand Ships and Modules
#553 - 2012-06-21 23:21:23 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Tyrozan
Aryth wrote:
Blah Blah Blah we so kewl, blah blah blah we so smrt blah blah blah


I made 12 billion isk off your work.

Thanks -----Edit-----.

Now leave my -----Edit------ militia.

Post edited.
No inappropriate language, please.

ISD Tyrozan
Ensign
Community Communications Liaisons
Interstellar Services Department
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#554 - 2012-06-21 23:21:39 UTC
Rellik B00n wrote:
Does this mean you will pay me for the miners Ive killed now?

I keep waiting for the ISK to appear but it never does Sad

edit: also, good effort, I wish I could bring myself to give enough of a **** about a computer game to do stuff like this but I just cant, you certainly knocked the **** out of this one, GJ.

send me an evemail with a link to the character's eve-kill stats and i'll look into it
we cannot have people murdering miners and going unpaid

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Thomas Ardenvald
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#555 - 2012-06-21 23:22:14 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Goons really rustled my jimmies.



I haven't seen imageshack in years.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#556 - 2012-06-21 23:22:58 UTC
Ninlarra wrote:
I made 12 billion isk off your work.


cool, he made several hundred times that from his work

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Mabego Tetrimon
Spiritus Draconis
#557 - 2012-06-21 23:24:36 UTC
from Eula:

"3. You may not use (((your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other))) patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play."


what you did Goons, is a direct violation of the Eula. In my personal view that does not matter much you gained by a specific game play items at an accelerated rate when compared to ordinary game play.

If you get away with this, well, such is life :)
Maggie Maggie
Perkone
Caldari State
#558 - 2012-06-21 23:25:25 UTC
Mabego Tetrimon wrote:
from Eula:

"3. You may not use (((your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other))) patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play."


what you did Goons, is a direct violation of the Eula. In my personal view that does not matter much you gained by a specific game play items at an accelerated rate when compared to ordinary game play.

If you get away with this, well, such is life :)


What could be more ordinary than buying and selling items, interacting with an LP store, and blowing up spaceships?
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#559 - 2012-06-21 23:26:02 UTC
Mabego Tetrimon wrote:
from Eula:

"3. You may not use (((your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other))) patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play."


what you did Goons, is a direct violation of the Eula. In my personal view that does not matter much you gained by a specific game play items at an accelerated rate when compared to ordinary game play.

If you get away with this, well, such is life :)

that bans botting, not gaining items at an accelerated rate

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#560 - 2012-06-21 23:26:41 UTC
i gain money at an accelerated rate doing nothing by having items that will appreciate in value sitting in my hangar

i do not fear getting sreeged for this

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.