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Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

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Heinrich Rotwang
Spectre Fleet Corporation
#381 - 2012-06-21 19:45:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Heinrich Rotwang
(double post fail)
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#382 - 2012-06-21 19:45:55 UTC
Serptimis wrote:
Aryth wrote:
Agent Type wrote:
Good god. I am glad to hear CCP is doing some of investigation into the matter.. while I think it is great that players are able to use their intelligence and dedication to make huge amounts of ISK I would hate to see any issues cropping up in EVE online due to that amount of ISK being created in such a short period of time.

As a newer player and fellow member of FW I do find something like this a little disconcerting. I traded my first two months of the game to make some billions of ISK. It was a lot of work, took me time finding items, shipping, updating, etc. I was happy to do it as I felt I was making a large amount more money then an average player, while not investing a ton of time into the game (compared to if I were doing missions). Knowing that another group was printing trillions of ISK while I slaved to make my billions is rather annoying.

That said, someone said it in one of the posts on the first page... things like this really show that some people are playing this game on an entirely different level. For that, well done!

Edit: As a member of Fweddit (FW) I completely noticed the upgrading of systems. Woke up one morning to see all of our systems in V and though "Who the hell would waste 2 mill LP on that?". I am quite excited to be able to do FW without you boosting the Minmatar faction.. should be fun! They went down to T3 for the first time since I had joined FW.


You are not understanding the mechanics. No ISK was created. Wealth was transferred. There is a rather large distinction. If we had been printing ISK by selling to NPC buy orders, yes, that would have been truly gamebreaking. This was an ISK sink due to LP store costs.

True, but you walked away 5T richer and made me realise the fact that no matter how long i play this game, compared to some, i'll always be an unknowlegdeable noob Smile


This describes most goons too. So I wouldn't let it bother you.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#383 - 2012-06-21 19:50:39 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Jones Bones wrote:
Wait, why would they roll anything back? 5T is a drop in the bucket of the EVE economy. Lotta herpa derp in here.


Because if they don't it will cost them real world money. The same people that are quoting how many subs the goons have can't do the same math? Its an error in the six figure range of real cash.


dear cipher jones, noted expert on math

ccp does not allow you to pay for subscriptions in isk

it allows you to pay someone else isk to pay for your subscription in real money

hope this has been helpful

your buddy
weaselior


CCP finally released subscription numbers in May and admitted they are down tens of thousands of subs. In your world of advanced corporate maths I'm sure its somehow great to have less income and devalued currency.


internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#384 - 2012-06-21 19:51:27 UTC
Uyeiu wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
stuff i don't care about, except for Simetraz's sig

Leonard Cohen's "Everybody Knows" is so perfect for EVE (at least the first few verses). I never thought about it before. It also makes a good "goons control eve" song (and also does well when interpreted as an ironic commentary on tinfoilism).


Somebody said "Everybody Knows" in a thread not long ago and the song just popped in there.
It is just too prefect for EVE in so many ways I just couldn't resist I finally found a Sig I will be keeping for a long time Big smile

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Ryoken McKeon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#385 - 2012-06-21 19:52:05 UTC
This is why anti-goons are fools. "Goons suck"

Oh really? Then why do they, through meticulous research, skill, and intelligence manage to pull one over on the entire EVE community AGAIN AND AGAIN? I can't stand people (Sorry that I missed you the other day Jade, just beat my lock.) who whine about the group that plays this game to the fullest, and reaps the benefits of doing so. If you want to nerf goons, do yourself, in game, the way they've nerfed you.
j hext
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#386 - 2012-06-21 19:52:09 UTC
I find it amazing that there are some people out there with this amount of intellect that would waste there time just to screw over a game, when it can be done to make REAL money!!


Please tell me that the people that did this are in RL rich and powerful people! If not you dam well should be! Shocked

While i don't like the fact that you did screw over the game for many people i must take my hat off to you for doing this. Well done goons, well done Lol
Heimdallofasgard
Ministry of Furious Retribution
Fraternity.
#387 - 2012-06-21 19:52:33 UTC
Hell did VV or Akita T even see this coming? VV was predicting another big peak in minerals in July but guess this throws a spanner in the works of that plan
Paint
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#388 - 2012-06-21 19:52:51 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Ituhata Saken wrote:
Dearest Market-Interested Space Tycoons,


At downtime today we made an adjustment to the average price of some items in order to curb a situation whereby the average price of an item could be manipulated in order to create a disparity between the value of an item in Isk and its value in Loyalty Point payouts. There will be additional changes in how this system works in the future. We will be monitoring for attempted manipulation of the LP market and will reverse any proceeds deemed to have been obtained through manipulative means. We are watching you. Don’t be That Guy.



By way of explanation we addressed the manipulation issue but haven't yet completed the investigation into the scope of the abuse. Once that happens I'm pretty sure some people are going to be a bit less smug about the money they made that one time when there was a bank error in their favor and then lost again when the bank fixed the glitch.



Serious question Sreegs, is this kind of thing actually cheating ? (ie against the rules) I read their document a couple of nights ago and though sure it really did blow massive holes through the eve game mechanics in order to make a giant profit - was it actually illegal ?




I don't really want to say just yet, but basically if you know you're using a system in a certain way in order to gain massive resources, whether you're taking advantage of a design flaw or not and whether we classify it as an exploit or not we're still well within our rights to fix the glitch. I'm not going to comment on what we do or don't do at this point because I don't prejudge the results of investigations.


I for one am looking forward to the design glitch - "t2 blueprint lottery" along with the trillions made off that being rolled back.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#389 - 2012-06-21 19:52:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Pyrus Octavius wrote:
Mutnin wrote:
Many of us FW vets tried to warn CCP that this sort of war zone control set up and LP payout left FW wide open to be manipulated and farmed by out side groups to make billions of ISK while not taking part in FW as a whole.

I pretty much figured Goons would be the ones to do it, but I must admit you guys impressed me with thinking out side the box and doing it in a much more intelligent way than I expected. Props for finding a hole in the system that it appears no one else noticed..

I just assumed you guys would send hundreds of farmer alts to farm LP the hard way and flip the war zone control to allow massive amounts of LP farming. That however leaves the profits in the hands of anyone that wasn't at the right place & right time.

The way you guys did it was pretty smart keeping the bulk of the long term profits to yourselves aside from guys whom happened to be around at the right time.. (luckily I was online when you guys did your final dump and I cashed out the LP's I had stashed away for a rainy day at tier V)


Um, I believe the correct spelling is, "hole". Which mean's something completely different than, "whole". Just sayin.


I had already corrected the typo before you finished quoting. Lol
Courthouse
Perkone
Caldari State
#390 - 2012-06-21 19:53:59 UTC
j hext wrote:
I find it amazing that there are some people out there with this amount of intellect that would waste there time just to screw over a game, when it can be done to make REAL money!!


In the real world everything about this would be extremely illegal.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#391 - 2012-06-21 19:55:17 UTC
Quote:
Oh really? Then why do they, through meticulous research, skill, and intelligence manage to pull one over on the entire EVE community AGAIN AND AGAIN?


By overtly violating the EULA.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#392 - 2012-06-21 19:55:46 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
Oh really? Then why do they, through meticulous research, skill, and intelligence manage to pull one over on the entire EVE community AGAIN AND AGAIN?


By overtly violating the EULA.

hey when does your sub run out, since you're unsubbing and all

we wouldn't want people to think you were bluffing

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Rape Culture
Doomheim
#393 - 2012-06-21 19:55:52 UTC
This is p cool but wouldn't this poop need to be converted at a trickle to avoid tanking the LP/ISK converion for yourself
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#394 - 2012-06-21 19:56:00 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
Oh really? Then why do they, through meticulous research, skill, and intelligence manage to pull one over on the entire EVE community AGAIN AND AGAIN?


By overtly violating the EULA.


can you show us what parts of the eula they so overtly violated

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Dave Stark
#395 - 2012-06-21 19:56:05 UTC
Courthouse wrote:
j hext wrote:
I find it amazing that there are some people out there with this amount of intellect that would waste there time just to screw over a game, when it can be done to make REAL money!!


In the real world everything about this would be extremely illegal.

not to mention the real world doesn't get patches with loopholes in them.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#396 - 2012-06-21 19:57:04 UTC
**** Culture wrote:
This is p cool but wouldn't this poop need to be converted at a trickle to avoid tanking the LP/ISK converion for yourself

I am sure that, if CCP lets us keep it, we can live with becoming trillionares at a "trickle" pace.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
spifforseti
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#397 - 2012-06-21 19:57:17 UTC
ibtl

the great factional warfare bubble... ermahgawd

well played goons.
Lord Jita
Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp
#398 - 2012-06-21 19:58:03 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:

CCP finally released subscription numbers in May and admitted they are down tens of thousands of subs. In your world of advanced corporate maths I'm sure its somehow great to have less income and devalued currency.





erm....

Quote:
CCP has send me new EVE numbers, they look good, 361k subs, so they can celebrate their 9th anniversary knowing they are back on the rise.



http://mmodata.blogspot.com/2012/05/mmodata-charts-v39-in-works.html
Maggie Maggie
Perkone
Caldari State
#399 - 2012-06-21 19:58:52 UTC
j hext wrote:
Please tell me that the people that did this are in RL rich and powerful people! If not you dam well should be! Shocked


RL power is overrated. People expect things from you.

Money is always nice though.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#400 - 2012-06-21 19:58:55 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:

CCP finally released subscription numbers in May and admitted they are down tens of thousands of subs. In your world of advanced corporate maths I'm sure its somehow great to have less income and devalued currency.

dear noted expert on numbers cipher jones: you are holding the chart upsidedown

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.