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Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

First post First post First post
Author
Kazanir
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#341 - 2012-06-21 19:21:59 UTC
Alright who wants an Urza's Saga analogy up in this *****
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#342 - 2012-06-21 19:22:52 UTC
Jones Bones wrote:
Wait, why would they roll anything back? 5T is a drop in the bucket of the EVE economy. Lotta herpa derp in here.


Because if they don't it will cost them real world money. The same people that are quoting how many subs the goons have can't do the same math? Its an error in the six figure range of real cash.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Courthouse
Perkone
Caldari State
#343 - 2012-06-21 19:23:21 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:

good to know you stalk every goonswarm director's twitter lol


It's more likely he furiously F5's CCP Punkturis' twitter.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#344 - 2012-06-21 19:24:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuixien
corestwo wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
corestwo wrote:
its not like anything is happening there anymore.


Well, according to killboards nothing has happened in that entire constellation - for the past 4 months.

corestwo wrote:
ps - there are no kills posted because we took steps to make sure they didn't get posted.


Riiiiight. I believe you. Blink


I guess those blue posts confirming it just means that we're trolling you and CCP is just participating in the trolling, right? Roll


Blue posts don't actually confirm that the story posted is true.

Unless I missed the ones that do, in which case, it should be no effort at all for you to win the Internet with a couple of links.

But until then, neither the Gallente, Caldari, Minmatar, or Amarr killboards show any freighter/Industrial kills for the past 3 months which could be related to the OP.

Sorry broh. Sad

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist

Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#345 - 2012-06-21 19:24:25 UTC
Nyrak wrote:
corestwo wrote:
Nyrak wrote:
Ironic how CCP Soundwave was all for cutting out research points for us little folks since he saw it as too easy of a passive income to give to Factional Warfare as a reward. I wonder what he thinks now?

He did predict that FW would break somehow during an interview with TenTonHammer. If I recall, he even said he WANTED it to break.

Probably not quite what he had in mind, but there you go.


Bummer - broken toys in the sandbox, but after reading this forum for a while, I guess it is expected.

Thank you for the answer.


http://www.tentonhammer.com/eve-online/interviews/inferno-part-one

Stoffer aka CCPSoundwave Interview
In this interview at 6:40 he starts talking about faction warfare

"I kinda hope this goes terribly wrong"



This was one of my farming characters BIO's. Just incase CCP happened to look at him.
I felt it might get a laugh out of them. I hope stoffer is laughing his ass off right now.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.

Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#346 - 2012-06-21 19:24:26 UTC
I think the OP is taking the game a tad serious, all this effort and hard work for some pixel isk.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#347 - 2012-06-21 19:25:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
corestwo wrote:
Pyrus Octavius wrote:
My personal feeling regardless is, any gains made in this fashion should be confiscated. I don't think I care about bans, but the gains be taken away. I'm not a market guru what so ever, and even though someone said in here that the market would return to normal in 30 days, the whole system was manipulated, and this hurts innocent bystanders, whom will never get their ISK back.


Some time ago, I was holding a very large stash of Plasmoids. Then, some clown came along and bought all the plasmoids in Jita, relisted them considerably higher, and put up a big buy order that was well above what I had bought at. So naturally, I bombed out his order and put up my remaining plasmoids on sells at the price at which his buy order had been. Within a day, plenty of new Plasmoids orders had filled in below me, and the market tumbled.

Now, this guy tried to manipulate the system and got hurt. I'm pretty sure he never got the isk back, too.

The moral of the story here is that the market is PvP, and there are no innocent bystanders. If CCP elects for consequences, so be it, but your reason for them is laughable.


The interesting thing about the market is that the innocent bystanders aren't really effected by market manipulation at least not on a large scale. They may have to pay more for certain items but that is it cause they are not buy items in bulk.

Those that are playing the market may get crushed but that is what can happen when you play in any market.
The more you have to lose the greater the risk.

Don't fly what you can't afford to lose can also be applied to using the markets as a cash cow.
Don't invest in something if you can't afford to not make a profit on it.

Like any market if it is left alone it will settle out to a level that it can support.
Sometimes those levels are higher then previous levels simply cause people are still willing to buy and sell at those levels.

The good thing about higher prices is that at first glance everyone is maker more, but the down side is that game play will stagnate cause people are spending more time trying to make ISK rather then spending it.

The good part is that players don't have to be dependent on the market for there goods they can go elsewhere for items.
For instance alliances will become more integrated as they provide for there own and leave the rest rot.

Now that I think about it the ones most effected by the markets are the PvP alliances as they pay straight prices for everything.
Those that have industrial backing will tend to continue enjoying the profits of selling off there extra's on the open market.
So in a odd way the Goon's are actually helping carebears make a bigger profit.

6 months from now things should be pretty interesting.
Dave stark
#348 - 2012-06-21 19:25:45 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Jones Bones wrote:
Wait, why would they roll anything back? 5T is a drop in the bucket of the EVE economy. Lotta herpa derp in here.


Because if they don't it will cost them real world money. The same people that are quoting how many subs the goons have can't do the same math? Its an error in the six figure range of real cash.


i don't really see how, the plex on the market still have to be purchased with real money to begin with. or am i missing some thing very obvious here?
Courthouse
Perkone
Caldari State
#349 - 2012-06-21 19:26:01 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Jones Bones wrote:
Wait, why would they roll anything back? 5T is a drop in the bucket of the EVE economy. Lotta herpa derp in here.


Because if they don't it will cost them real world money. The same people that are quoting how many subs the goons have can't do the same math? Its an error in the six figure range of real cash.


You're delusional. The only people "hurt" by this would be mission runner types who cash out in +5s or specific minmatar faction ships.

For everyone else who wants fleet stabbers or fleet tempests or cheapo +5s for their clones this was a net benefit.

It also removed a massive amount of minerals from speculative holdings and the markets, meaning a chunk of pre-dronepoo mineral stockpiles are gone now.

You're mad because goons did a thing, not because it actually "hurt" you.
MaCoola
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#350 - 2012-06-21 19:26:13 UTC
First, I hate Goons. I always will probably and I really think they are ruining the game. But, I have to say I am honestly impressed at the depth you went and the meta-gaming you did on this. I liked Jita Burn and this, is just wow. Those involved have really worked hard and used a high degree of intelligence to do what you did. Truly impressive and while I despise you I will admit what you did was pretty cool and ingenuitive. Cool

Now, Back to hating. Twisted
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#351 - 2012-06-21 19:26:52 UTC
Clever, in discovering the exploit.

Not so clever, in actually using the exploit in game, esp. with deliberate intent to ruin aspects of the game for other players, and requiring CCP to expend resources to undo the damage.

You are not the first players in the game to discover an exploit in the game, and you will certainly not be the last. There are always going to be design flaws and bugs in a system as complex as Eve has become. As responsible players, under the EULA, you are required to report such issues, not attempt to use them.

And, if your intent is simply to prove that an exploit will actually work, keep in mind that this is still a violation of the EULA and not too smart - just as attempting to prove in a Las Vegas casino that a sleight-of-hand trick will allow you cheat at cards isn't all that clever or smart.

If this had ended at discovering and reporting the exploit, you would deserve praise. By using the exploit, you have lowered yourself to being cheats, and it is rather sad that you actually feel good bragging about it.

I'd be rather surprised if CCP allows this to stand, unpunished. It would simply encourage more players to search for and use future exploits, some of which may have even more severe consequences and will certainly cost CCP resources, time and money to repair.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#352 - 2012-06-21 19:26:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
Cipher Jones wrote:
Jones Bones wrote:
Wait, why would they roll anything back? 5T is a drop in the bucket of the EVE economy. Lotta herpa derp in here.


Because if they don't it will cost them real world money. The same people that are quoting how many subs the goons have can't do the same math? Its an error in the six figure range of real cash.


dear cipher jones, noted expert on math

ccp does not allow you to pay for subscriptions in isk

it allows you to pay someone else isk to pay for your subscription in real money

hope this has been helpful

your buddy
weaselior

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Kyle Ward
Doomheim
#353 - 2012-06-21 19:28:46 UTC
Sweet baby jesus can anyone see through this circle jerk?

The Sandbox, you're playing it wrong!

Courthouse
Perkone
Caldari State
#354 - 2012-06-21 19:30:19 UTC
MaCoola wrote:
First, I hate Goons. I always will probably and I really think they are ruining the game. But, I have to say I am honestly impressed at the depth you went and the meta-gaming you did on this. I liked Jita Burn and this, is just wow. Those involved have really worked hard and used a high degree of intelligence to do what you did. Truly impressive and while I despise you I will admit what you did was pretty cool and ingenuitive. Cool

Now, Back to hating. Twisted


Are you not entertained?
Pyrus Octavius
Flat Earth Believers
#355 - 2012-06-21 19:30:39 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Pyrus Octavius wrote:
I hate to say this, but I feel really stupid. Never in a million years would I have figured out something like this. Obviously, not all men are created equally (and I use men loosely because most of you grown ups still act like children).

My personal feeling regardless is, any gains made in this fashion should be confiscated. I don't think I care about bans, but the gains be taken away. I'm not a market guru what so ever, and even though someone said in here that the market would return to normal in 30 days, the whole system was manipulated, and this hurts innocent bystanders, whom will never get their ISK back.

It's stuff like this that also has just made me not enjoy playing EVE too much. Log in check toon, say hi, change skill, log. That's my routine. Hoping that someday things will get to a better state where I feel the time I invest in sitting in front of my computer will be rewarding. Until then...

So.... You are mad because you didn't think of it first, and so you think everyone who profited should lose their stuff.

Sounds fair to me Roll

At least you were halfway honest about it tho Cool

No Bro, I'm not mad. I think you may need to go back to 3rd grade though, and learn how to extract tone out of piece of literature so you can once and for all learn to analyze the writers feelings, because you my friend fail at this.

You may roll your eyes, and that's fine with me, but this is my opinion, and if you don't like it, then you can move on to the next post in this epic thread. What basically occurred here was an exploit in a currency exchange. I don't know of any real world examples of such of a thing, but I would think that regulators would take note of it and take action. Even sue for restitution. Shouldn't that occur in a simulated economy where CCP is basically the Central Bank?
Agent Type
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#356 - 2012-06-21 19:30:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Agent Type
Good god. I am glad to hear CCP is doing some of investigation into the matter.. while I think it is great that players are able to use their intelligence and dedication to make huge amounts of ISK I would hate to see any issues cropping up in EVE online due to that amount of ISK being created in such a short period of time.

As a newer player and fellow member of FW I do find something like this a little disconcerting. I traded my first two months of the game to make some billions of ISK. It was a lot of work, took me time finding items, shipping, updating, etc. I was happy to do it as I felt I was making a large amount more money then an average player, while not investing a ton of time into the game (compared to if I were doing missions). Knowing that another group was printing trillions of ISK while I slaved to make my billions is rather annoying.

That said, someone said it in one of the posts on the first page... things like this really show that some people are playing this game on an entirely different level. For that, well done!

Edit: As a member of Fweddit (FW) I completely noticed the upgrading of systems. Woke up one morning to see all of our systems in V and though "Who the hell would waste 2 mill LP on that?". I am quite excited to be able to do FW without you boosting the Minmatar faction.. should be fun! They went down to T3 for the first time since I had joined FW.
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#357 - 2012-06-21 19:31:08 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Jones Bones wrote:
Wait, why would they roll anything back? 5T is a drop in the bucket of the EVE economy. Lotta herpa derp in here.


Because if they don't it will cost them real world money. The same people that are quoting how many subs the goons have can't do the same math? Its an error in the six figure range of real cash.


dear cipher jones, noted expert on math

ccp does not allow you to pay for subscriptions in isk

it allows you to pay someone else isk to pay for your subscription in real money

hope this has been helpful

your buddy
weaselior


WEASOLIAR!

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them

corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#358 - 2012-06-21 19:32:57 UTC  |  Edited by: corestwo
Agent Type wrote:
Good god. I am glad to hear CCP is doing some of investigation into the matter.. while I think it is great that players are able to use their intelligence and dedication to make huge amounts of ISK I would hate to see any issues cropping up in EVE online due to that amount of ISK being created in such a short period of time.

Ratting, bounties, incursion rewards and mission rewards inject dozens or hundreds of billions of isk per day into Eve.

I'm just sayin'.

e: Also no isk was created - all earnings come from other players by nature. Blink

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo

Jennam Musana
Alternative Management Solutions
#359 - 2012-06-21 19:33:02 UTC
Hastily made changes to the game code to plug the exploit might cause CONCORD to relocate themselves to Goonswarm space until the conveniently destructive mistake, after a thorough investigation to the erratically behaving aforementioned installment, in the program code is found and returned to the previous state *suspicious glances*.
Maggie Maggie
Perkone
Caldari State
#360 - 2012-06-21 19:33:07 UTC
Agent Type wrote:
Good god. I am glad to hear CCP is doing some of investigation into the matter.. while I think it is great that players are able to use their intelligence and dedication to make huge amounts of ISK I would hate to see any issues cropping up in EVE online due to that amount of ISK being created in such a short period of time.


No ISK was created. Keep that in mind.