These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Suqq Madiq
#301 - 2012-06-21 18:55:50 UTC
Yawn.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#302 - 2012-06-21 18:55:56 UTC
Aryth wrote:
This also meant that we could cash out our hundreds of billions of ISK worth of minerals at prices far higher than on the market. For example, we cashed out Megacyte at 3300, Zydrine 1400, Nocxium at 900. So some of the very largest stockpiles of pre-drone nerf minerals no longer exists. Tying back into the mineral manipulation we have been engaging in.
The test quickly became even bigger than anticipated because upon release, FW turned out to have a bug that rewarded LP for both dropped and exploded cargo, doubling the rewards. So we went to work, sending hundreds of billions of ISK worth of highend minerals to Yulai to be blown up. Why Yulai? Anyone enlisted in faction warfare gets shot at by faction police of the opposing factions. Yulai and its entire constellation are owned by CONCORD, which is neutral territory. Thus, both FW alts could move through peacefully. Also, Yulai has an “Inner Circle” station, which was just plain funny. How fitting that Yulai, once the most important system in Eve, finally becomes relevant again.


Yulai, you say?

Interesting.

I'll have to go visit some time.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#303 - 2012-06-21 18:56:47 UTC
Pyrus Octavius wrote:
I hate to say this, but I feel really stupid. Never in a million years would I have figured out something like this. Obviously, not all men are created equally (and I use men loosely because most of you grown ups still act like children).

My personal feeling regardless is, any gains made in this fashion should be confiscated. I don't think I care about bans, but the gains be taken away. I'm not a market guru what so ever, and even though someone said in here that the market would return to normal in 30 days, the whole system was manipulated, and this hurts innocent bystanders, whom will never get their ISK back.

It's stuff like this that also has just made me not enjoy playing EVE too much. Log in check toon, say hi, change skill, log. That's my routine. Hoping that someday things will get to a better state where I feel the time I invest in sitting in front of my computer will be rewarding. Until then...

So.... You are mad because you didn't think of it first, and so you think everyone who profited should lose their stuff.

Sounds fair to me Roll

At least you were halfway honest about it tho Cool

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#304 - 2012-06-21 18:57:06 UTC
Pyrus Octavius wrote:
I hate to say this, but I feel really stupid. Never in a million years would I have figured out something like this. Obviously, not all men are created equally (and I use men loosely because most of you grown ups still act like children).

My personal feeling regardless is, any gains made in this fashion should be confiscated. I don't think I care about bans, but the gains be taken away. I'm not a market guru what so ever, and even though someone said in here that the market would return to normal in 30 days, the whole system was manipulated, and this hurts innocent bystanders, whom will never get their ISK back.

It's stuff like this that also has just made me not enjoy playing EVE too much. Log in check toon, say hi, change skill, log. That's my routine. Hoping that someday things will get to a better state where I feel the time I invest in sitting in front of my computer will be rewarding. Until then...




You should join Minmatar faction warfare, sometimes all this crazy market manipulation high finance shennanigans-in-the-sky just randomly makes 10m isk fleet stabbers fall in your lap and you can content yourself by having fun and not worrying about how much the 0.0 aristocray have got. Play a cybernetic rat in the wainscotting of Eve Online, sometimes even rats have a good day.



The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Courthouse
Perkone
Caldari State
#305 - 2012-06-21 18:57:35 UTC
Pyrus Octavius wrote:
I hate to say this, but I feel really stupid. Never in a million years would I have figured out something like this. Obviously, not all men are created equally (and I use men loosely because most of you grown ups still act like children).

Who's worse? The 'grown ups who act like children' or the mature, educated and quite obviously better than us grown ups who follow our lead?
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#306 - 2012-06-21 18:57:51 UTC  |  Edited by: corestwo
Pyrus Octavius wrote:
My personal feeling regardless is, any gains made in this fashion should be confiscated. I don't think I care about bans, but the gains be taken away. I'm not a market guru what so ever, and even though someone said in here that the market would return to normal in 30 days, the whole system was manipulated, and this hurts innocent bystanders, whom will never get their ISK back.


Some time ago, I was holding a very large stash of Plasmoids. Then, some clown came along and bought all the plasmoids in Jita, relisted them considerably higher, and put up a big buy order that was well above what I had bought at. So naturally, I bombed out his order and put up my remaining plasmoids on sells at the price at which his buy order had been. Within a day, plenty of new Plasmoids orders had filled in below me, and the market tumbled.

Now, this guy tried to manipulate the system and got hurt. I'm pretty sure he never got the isk back, too.

The moral of the story here is that the market is PvP, and there are no innocent bystanders. If CCP elects for consequences, so be it, but your reason for them is laughable.

Xuixien wrote:
Aryth wrote:
This also meant that we could cash out our hundreds of billions of ISK worth of minerals at prices far higher than on the market. For example, we cashed out Megacyte at 3300, Zydrine 1400, Nocxium at 900. So some of the very largest stockpiles of pre-drone nerf minerals no longer exists. Tying back into the mineral manipulation we have been engaging in.
The test quickly became even bigger than anticipated because upon release, FW turned out to have a bug that rewarded LP for both dropped and exploded cargo, doubling the rewards. So we went to work, sending hundreds of billions of ISK worth of highend minerals to Yulai to be blown up. Why Yulai? Anyone enlisted in faction warfare gets shot at by faction police of the opposing factions. Yulai and its entire constellation are owned by CONCORD, which is neutral territory. Thus, both FW alts could move through peacefully. Also, Yulai has an “Inner Circle” station, which was just plain funny. How fitting that Yulai, once the most important system in Eve, finally becomes relevant again.


Yulai, you say?

Interesting.

I'll have to go visit some time.

Feel free, its not like anything is happening there anymore.

ps - there are no kills posted because we took steps to make sure they didn't get posted.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Nyrak
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#307 - 2012-06-21 19:00:41 UTC
Ironic how CCP Soundwave was all for cutting out research points for us little folks since he saw it as too easy of a passive income to give to Factional Warfare as a reward. I wonder what he thinks now?
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#308 - 2012-06-21 19:02:30 UTC
Nyrak wrote:
Ironic how CCP Soundwave was all for cutting out research points for us little folks since he saw it as too easy of a passive income to give to Factional Warfare as a reward. I wonder what he thinks now?

He did predict that FW would break somehow during an interview with TenTonHammer. If I recall, he even said he WANTED it to break.

Probably not quite what he had in mind, but there you go.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Mme Pinkerton
#309 - 2012-06-21 19:03:08 UTC
Pyrus Octavius wrote:
My personal feeling regardless is, any gains made in this fashion should be confiscated. I don't think I care about bans, but the gains be taken away. I'm not a market guru what so ever, and even though someone said in here that the market would return to normal in 30 days, the whole system was manipulated, and this hurts innocent bystanders, whom will never get their ISK back.

what are you going to do about the 20m I saved when buying a +5 implant because goons had crashed that market?

An IPO guide (David H'Levi) | Towards a Positive Argument For Investing (RAW23) | Freighter Operations 101 (Kazuo Ishiguro) | Dominion market analysis (Akita T)
Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
#310 - 2012-06-21 19:03:30 UTC
Oh my God it finally happened. Autism broke Eve.

EEeehmmm... and not a single **** was given that day.
Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#311 - 2012-06-21 19:04:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Feldman
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Pisov viet wrote:
Quote:

I would strongly suggest, that if you want to hit T5 again. You do it before Amarr grind down the fortress. You guys are still benefiting a great deal from our work. Once they grind down all your 5'ed systems, it's probably game over for you

Confirming this. If nothing else change, minmatar will hold 56 systems after tomorrow's DT, which, once upgraded, will get them just enough to get in T5, maybe one last time before amarr starts ******* them up.


This assumes that "Goon manipulation" is the reason we've held 56 systems in the first place. Lol All the Goons are claiming to do is to have propped up the WZ control level with their invested LP. That doesnt mean that the Amarr are necessarily going to suddenly surge forward now that our "backers" are gone. They lost all their space long before this manipulation ever took place. It's not like the easy money has anything to do with why we are winning the territory war. If Goons were claiming to have rolled hundreds of plexing alts into the militia to grind system captures, that would be a different case entirely, but they're not.

Also, the end of manipulation of the WZ control doesn't make Tier 5 a suddenly impossible achievement. It takes several million LP to invest every one of 56 systems to level V, this is easily earned by a handful of individual pilots investing an afternoon's worth of work. In other words, Goons are *not* the only ones capable of a coordinated pooling of LP upgrades by any means.


The majority of complaints had nothing to do with the fact that the Minmatar held 56 systems beforehand and had everything to do with the act that things were a ridiculously broken uphill grind due to the goon manipulations. The fact that as CSM you refused to look into things further and are content to just dismiss Amarr complaints that things were broken as just being the "losers" whining is sad especially when a lot of the people bringing up these concerns were new players to FW providing relatively neutral input.

You still seem to be in denial over the impact of the manipulations, it way overincentivized having a Minmatar LP farming alt, which should have been a red flag. The disparity in LP payouts as a whole was fairly demoralizing for the Amarr FW side especially with the ease at which Minmatar maintained high T4/borderline T5 control at all times. With no incentive to defensive plex and the fact that everytime we play system tug of war with the Minmatar they're making 20b in LP payouts, thats a pretty big deal. If you guys are able to get up to T5 on your own then kudos, but seriously, as CSM you need to get more in tune with the realities of FW and quit drinking your own kool-aid.

The moar you cry the less you pee
Pisov viet
Perkone
Caldari State
#312 - 2012-06-21 19:05:35 UTC
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#313 - 2012-06-21 19:08:29 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Courthouse wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
OP admits that his alliance broke the EULA by exploiting.

Again.

And CCP lets them stay.

And its directly because you cant afford to ban them.

Absolutely disgusting.

Consider me unsubbed.

Don't you unsub like every other week because goons did a thing? I can swear you said the same **** for burn jita and the gallente ice interdictions.

He bought a 10 year sub and has to wait for it to run out. Lol


Hmmm
With all the ISK that goonies have made could they say they quit as well and keep playing for then next 10 years.
Oh wait can you chain in multiple plex's and how many can you do ?
Hmm makes you wonder.

9000 members * 12 months * 10 Years = 1,080,000 Plex's


I was already a trillionare even before this. I have only used plex for my subs for many years.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#314 - 2012-06-21 19:08:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Xuixien
corestwo wrote:
its not like anything is happening there anymore.


Well, according to killboards nothing has happened in that entire constellation - for the past 4 months.

corestwo wrote:
ps - there are no kills posted because we took steps to make sure they didn't get posted.


Riiiiight. I believe you. Blink

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Aznwithbeard
OMGROFLSTOMP
#315 - 2012-06-21 19:10:24 UTC
You guys do realize this is just a game right? and your plotting and trolling and "rolling in 300 trillions of isk" is just you like, playing a video game?

Its sad that you put all this effort into a game and not IRL.


Just saying.

OMGROFLSTOMP

"We sort of mean business 75% of the time"
Kytayn
Kronos TEchnologies
#316 - 2012-06-21 19:10:33 UTC
Taking OP at face value (and I see no reason not to), I have to say this did change my opinion of the Goons (not that that matters one bit). They put significantly more effort into playing the metagame than most of us would think to do, shredded the economic model through a protracted effort over months and months, and the end result will be... CPP fixing the game to make it stronger (potentially), like Goonswarm has insisted all along. They may have their wallets reset at the end of the investigation, but the payoff wasn't the ISK in the first place.

That is impressive. Well done.

Be careful in Pulsar systems, you might get Pod Flu.

(Bio for YouTube reading)
Heimdallofasgard
Ministry of Furious Retribution
Fraternity.
#317 - 2012-06-21 19:10:35 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
Aryth wrote:
Xenuria wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.

Holy ****.. Vile rat!

You actually logged in long enough to post something.

Also kudos, it's not often you goons impress me but when you do it's something like this. You guys did get a head start on this and your involvement pretty much prevented me from taking any meaningful advantage of what my team and I had gleaned in a similar fashion.

OH well...

I recommend you guys spend some time on diablo 3 real money auction house. I am making ridiculous cash with that.
It's not to late to make some quick easy cash before gold becomes a purchasable commodity and then the price of everything plummets. Un-ironically, the majority of people working with me on this are from EVE.


Some of us already are. Not my cup of tea though. I believe adanthar has made 4 figures already.


Not bad, I mean the biggest payout was shortly after the RMAH went live. These people with way to much disposable income didn't seem to care much about price and just anamatronically bought out anything that had the highest dps. Which was typically something I put up that I had bought off the gold auction house.

I don't know how much I have made so far in total because anything in my paypal that I don't use right away goes to my campaign for CSM or gets turned into plex.

That Reminds me I need to make a kickstarter for that.


Xenuria, pretending he's relevant, how are those 200 maligned voters doing?

I take it some of them make up your "team"? hahaha, you're like the guy who reads a wikipedia page on something then pretends to be an immediate expert in whatever transgender issues interests your sick mind.

I hope your "kickstarter" elaborates on the themes of your last attempt:

*cringe*
Fix Lag
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#318 - 2012-06-21 19:11:03 UTC
Sreegs used to be my CEO

oh how the mighty have fallen

CCP mostly sucks at their job, but Veritas is a pretty cool dude.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#319 - 2012-06-21 19:11:12 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
corestwo wrote:
its not like anything is happening there anymore.


Well, according to killboards nothing has happened in that entire constellation - for the past 4 months.

corestwo wrote:
ps - there are no kills posted because we took steps to make sure they didn't get posted.


Riiiiight. I believe you. Blink

eve-kill only gets your kills if you give it an api

you could easily see on dotlan how many ships were destroyed there

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Jones Bones
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#320 - 2012-06-21 19:11:31 UTC
Wait, why would they roll anything back? 5T is a drop in the bucket of the EVE economy. Lotta herpa derp in here.