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Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#2921 - 2012-06-24 05:24:58 UTC  |  Edited by: corestwo
Quote:
Mission rewards paid out in Feb: 2,470,815,985,076 ISK. Mission bonuses: 2,346,410,541,970 ISK.
Insurance payouts in Feb: 3,366,455,121,035 ISK. Paid for insurance: 1,618,888,782,680 ISK.
ISK earnt from NPC bounties in Feb: 32,083,329,999,805 ISK
8,566,015,400,900 ISK paid out in Incursion rewards in February.
Last one up; 21,847 LP store wallet transactions costing a total of 218.33bn ISK.


That last one is referring to a single day, which means something in excess of 6 billion LP a month, to say nothing of nearly 50 trillion new isk created.

You see why we're pretty confident in saying that what we did would actually have no long term effect? Blink


e: Fairly meaningless, but it is some interesting perspective. CCP Diagoras has a fun twitter feed, ya'll should check it out.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#2922 - 2012-06-24 05:33:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
Nevigrofnu Mrots wrote:


1st moment - They fill ships with their stuff, blow them up, gain LP.


That by itself pretty much screams exploit to me lol

but eh, then I guess I have that common sense trait

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Cerebral Wolf
N.A.G.A Too
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#2923 - 2012-06-24 05:44:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Cerebral Wolf
I notice the CSM has been very, very quiet on this issue. Do non of you have any input at all now mittens is not there to hold your hands?...

Also, Sreegs, Serious question...is it appropriate that you're conducting the investigation?...If this was in real life with real money HR wouldn't let you poke the issue with a ****** stick due to your previous involvement with Goonwaffeswarmfeetboot as an our CEO. You wouldn't be trusted to provide a neutral, unbiased opinion, is this being taken less seriously because its fake internetspaceship money?...is they why the conflict of interest is acceptable in CCP's eyes?
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#2924 - 2012-06-24 05:56:41 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Nevigrofnu Mrots wrote:


1st moment - They fill ships with their stuff, blow them up, gain LP.


That by itself pretty much screams exploit to me lol

but eh, then I guess I have that common sense trait


Their ships were being blown up by characters of the opposing faction. How does that scream exploit to you?

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Maestro Antollare
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2925 - 2012-06-24 06:01:31 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Nevigrofnu Mrots wrote:


1st moment - They fill ships with their stuff, blow them up, gain LP.


That by itself pretty much screams exploit to me lol

but eh, then I guess I have that common sense trait


Their ships were being blown up by characters of the opposing faction. How does that scream exploit to you?


anything that involves blowing your own **** up for profit is an exploit Cool
Cerebral Wolf
N.A.G.A Too
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#2926 - 2012-06-24 06:05:12 UTC
Maestro Antollare wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Nevigrofnu Mrots wrote:


1st moment - They fill ships with their stuff, blow them up, gain LP.


That by itself pretty much screams exploit to me lol

but eh, then I guess I have that common sense trait


Their ships were being blown up by characters of the opposing faction. How does that scream exploit to you?


anything that involves blowing your own **** up for profit is an exploit Cool



By that logic when we get bored and blow each other up in VFK knowing we'll make a profit on insurance its an exploit.
Maestro Antollare
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2927 - 2012-06-24 06:11:09 UTC
Cerebral Wolf wrote:
Maestro Antollare wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Nevigrofnu Mrots wrote:


1st moment - They fill ships with their stuff, blow them up, gain LP.


That by itself pretty much screams exploit to me lol

but eh, then I guess I have that common sense trait


Their ships were being blown up by characters of the opposing faction. How does that scream exploit to you?


anything that involves blowing your own **** up for profit is an exploit Cool



By that logic when we get bored and blow each other up in VFK knowing we'll make a profit on insurance its an exploit.


do you make 5t in profit and then make a vain, pretentious display of how clever you are?

goons rob a bank; tell the police how they robbed it and laugh at them for not seeing the hole; cries, bitches, and moans when the police take their loot away

did i miss anything?
Cerebral Wolf
N.A.G.A Too
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#2928 - 2012-06-24 06:19:44 UTC
Whats with the stupid bank analogy you all need to share? Can't you use your own special snowflake one or can you not think of your own?...

I fail to see why everyone's so pissed about the situation.
SavageBastard
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2929 - 2012-06-24 06:27:38 UTC
Maestro Antollare wrote:

do you make 5t in profit and then make a vain, pretentious display of how clever you are?

goons rob a bank; tell the police how they robbed it and laugh at them for not seeing the hole; cries, bitches, and moans when the police take their loot away

did i miss anything?



I'm sorry but I'm confused. Is it profit or is it theft? Nobody robbed anybody here. CCP made a bad system. Nobody is arguing that you SHOULD be able to make this kind of money, even Aryth (which is why he posted this here thread). But they did. Because the game worked how they coded it to work. Now CCP is mad because they know they screwed up and you're mad because someone is rubbing your nose is how much money they made while you sat around hoping your bad posting would pay off some day.
Maestro Antollare
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2930 - 2012-06-24 06:31:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Maestro Antollare
Cerebral Wolf wrote:
Whats with the stupid bank analogy you all need to share? Can't you use your own special snowflake one or can you not think of your own?...



ok, sure

let's say you read the patch notes for your favorite game and notice an interesting loophole in the patch notes

you test and confirm your discovery in game, and use it to accumulate a significant amount of wealth

the devs discover the loophole, and patch it

you find the patch didn't fully correct the loophole, and adjust your plan to compensate

after you're tired of using the loophole, you make a bombastic post on the forums telling the devs and other players what idiots they are for not seeing it sooner

tears flow in copious amounts
Ronni Zigman
It's not slavery, if they are enjoying it.
#2931 - 2012-06-24 06:40:29 UTC
Since CCPs policy is to not do anything about it until you post it on the forums, can I continue to abuse corp aggression mechanics to get people CONCORDed?
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#2932 - 2012-06-24 06:41:20 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Nevigrofnu Mrots wrote:


1st moment - They fill ships with their stuff, blow them up, gain LP.


That by itself pretty much screams exploit to me lol

but eh, then I guess I have that common sense trait


Their ships were being blown up by characters of the opposing faction. How does that scream exploit to you?


thats not what it says

"1st moment - They fill ships with their stuff, blow them up, gain LP."

THEY fill ships with THEIR stuff ten blow them up. This looks to me like its saying they fill ships with their own stuff and then purposely destroy them (IE self destruct). And get LP for it.

Not they get them destroyed by the enemy.

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#2933 - 2012-06-24 06:41:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Maestro Antollare wrote:
Cerebral Wolf wrote:
Whats with the stupid bank analogy you all need to share? Can't you use your own special snowflake one or can you not think of your own?...



ok, sure

let's say you read the patch notes for your favorite game and notice an interesting loophole in the patch notes

you test and confirm your discovery in game, and use it to accumulate a significant amount of wealth

the devs discover the loophole, and patch it

you find the patch didn't fully correct the loophole, and adjust your plan to compensate

after you're tired of using the loophole, you make a bombastic post on the forums telling the devs and other players what idiots they are for not seeing it sooner

tears flow in copious amounts

At the end of the day I feel the worst for the FW people. They wanted content iteration and got this. Ugh

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2934 - 2012-06-24 06:42:16 UTC
Maestro Antollare
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2935 - 2012-06-24 06:42:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Maestro Antollare
pretend this is any other game - i find an item i can buy from an npc that sells to that same npc for more than i originally paid to buy it, use that to max out my gold, isk, w/e, then tell the devs about it

yes, the devs should have seen it, but it was obviously not intended to do what i used it for
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#2936 - 2012-06-24 06:43:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
Cerebral Wolf wrote:



By that logic when we get bored and blow each other up in VFK knowing we'll make a profit on insurance its an exploit.


oh come on you CANT ACTUALLY be that stupid, quit pretending

you REALLY cant tell the difference? REALLY?

How did you get past the learning curve?

SavageBastard wrote:


I'm sorry but I'm confused. Is it profit or is it theft? Nobody robbed anybody here. CCP made a bad system. Nobody is arguing that you SHOULD be able to make this kind of money, even Aryth (which is why he posted this here thread). But they did. Because the game worked how they coded it to work. Now CCP is mad because they know they screwed up and you're mad because someone is rubbing your nose is how much money they made while you sat around hoping your bad posting would pay off some day.


OK Ill try:

The bank is made in such a way you can walk into te vault and make off with the money. You do this, swagger to the police station, show them the money and brag and are pissed when they take it.

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#2937 - 2012-06-24 06:44:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Nevigrofnu Mrots wrote:


1st moment - They fill ships with their stuff, blow them up, gain LP.


That by itself pretty much screams exploit to me lol

but eh, then I guess I have that common sense trait


Their ships were being blown up by characters of the opposing faction. How does that scream exploit to you?


thats not what it says

"1st moment - They fill ships with their stuff, blow them up, gain LP."

THEY fill ships with THEIR stuff ten blow them up. This looks to me like its saying they fill ships with their own stuff and then purposely destroy them (IE self destruct). And get LP for it.

Not they get them destroyed by the enemy.

I thought Malkavians were liberated from such constructs as respect of person and possession. Hell, don't you think you are the enemy half the time when you're a Malk?!?

Evil

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#2938 - 2012-06-24 06:47:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
Darth Gustav wrote:

I thought Malkavians were liberated by such construct as respect of person and possession. Hell, don't you think you are the enemy half the time when you're a Malk?!?

Evil


Depends On the individual. Im saving the universe from the evil that are oranges.
I have a whole speech prepared on how they take over your mind with the juicy (supposed) goodness that you eat/drink and it shifts your conscousness towards pro orange agendas.

The only REAL problem I have is the lack of an ability to sleep and the random voices saying stuff that distracts me from what Im attempting to do at the time. Its extremely annoying given that I KNOW they dont actually exist yet even KNOWING THAT I cant just writ them off cause they tell me important things.

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2939 - 2012-06-24 06:47:26 UTC
David Carel wrote:
Eref Ataru wrote:
A flaw is a flaw. Intentional or not. The exploitation of a flaw is against the terms of use. Which according to the sign up is a ban not an asset freeze, not a slap on the wrists it clearly states ban.

When there was that exploit on the new forum which allowed people to see areas they couldn't CCP said then, thanks for pointing it out but leave it now, sees theres showing that a flaw is there then there's using a flaw to your advantage realising that it's gone too far, informing CCP of the flaw, and hoping it all goes away.

If goons had been sensible enough to keep it private between CCP and select others then, they probably would of kept the lot, now I think they have forced their hand, and as a player of this game I expect the full punishment of banned accounts, else the only message that gets sent out is that if you get caught they take it back, the message should be you exploit you get banned. Same as bots.


TOS wrote:

You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players. You may not communicate the existence of any exploitable bug to others directly or through a public forum. Bugs should be reported through the bug reporting tool on our website.


The only problem is, it's not a bug. The individual parts are working exactly as intended.


You can build a skyscraper with perfect sub-components, perfect materials, in the best place and... bork the structural calculations so it crumbles after 2 weeks. Individual parts worked exactly as intended but now it's a pile of dirt.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#2940 - 2012-06-24 06:49:15 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Spitfire
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
David Carel wrote:
Eref Ataru wrote:
A flaw is a flaw. Intentional or not. The exploitation of a flaw is against the terms of use. Which according to the sign up is a ban not an asset freeze, not a slap on the wrists it clearly states ban.

When there was that exploit on the new forum which allowed people to see areas they couldn't CCP said then, thanks for pointing it out but leave it now, sees theres showing that a flaw is there then there's using a flaw to your advantage realising that it's gone too far, informing CCP of the flaw, and hoping it all goes away.

If goons had been sensible enough to keep it private between CCP and select others then, they probably would of kept the lot, now I think they have forced their hand, and as a player of this game I expect the full punishment of banned accounts, else the only message that gets sent out is that if you get caught they take it back, the message should be you exploit you get banned. Same as bots.


TOS wrote:

You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players. You may not communicate the existence of any exploitable bug to others directly or through a public forum. Bugs should be reported through the bug reporting tool on our website.


The only problem is, it's not a bug. The individual parts are working exactly as intended.


You can build a skyscraper with perfect sub-components, perfect materials, in the best place and... bork the structural calculations so it crumbles after 2 weeks. Individual parts worked exactly as intended but now it's a pile of dirt.

Your comparison is flawed. The "*snip*" built the economic equivalent of a warp drive with the economic equivalent of tinker toys.

That's why everybody's so mad.

Economic warp fields shouldn't be possible with Viking-made formulae. Icelandic Calculus is champion.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom