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Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

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Tallon Sylph
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2561 - 2012-06-23 16:17:38 UTC
AureoBroker wrote:
Dear goons; again.
This is an exploit, that is a completely unintented use of game mechanics.


We didn't intend for this game mechanic to work in the way that we designed it to work even though people repeatedly told us it was dumb.
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2562 - 2012-06-23 16:17:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Haquer wrote:
Tallon Sylph wrote:
Is Eve still a sandbox? I'm pretty confused right now.


It is until you hit an arbitrary limit in which it's "abuse" and then get your assets seized.


you forgot something. Its not your assets, its CCP's assets! Say so in the rights which you obviously never bothered to read!
They can take it away any time they choose to, even when they need money for cookies!
Have a cookie! My treat!
Holander Switzerland
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2563 - 2012-06-23 16:18:11 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:


I think you are sailing about as close to the wind as you can get Holander. You may want to take self enforced break, go and get some fresh air and do something else, before you say something else and get given a break.


Oh man, looking out for me. Where would I be without my wing-man, uh, er, whoever you are. I'm going to continue flying higher though and you can go back to being irrelevant.
Istyn
Freight Club
#2564 - 2012-06-23 16:19:24 UTC
Luis Graca wrote:
So many people talking about the sandbox


Quick question whats a sandbox and it's limits?

For me i always thing it was a game were everyone plays together and doesn't have limits but now i'm kinda lost


The limit is where the sand becomes a great big pile of money for you to roll around in before magicking back into sand.
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#2565 - 2012-06-23 16:19:45 UTC
Tallon Sylph wrote:
AureoBroker wrote:
Dear goons; again.
This is an exploit, that is a completely unintented use of game mechanics.


We didn't intend for this game mechanic to work in the way that we designed it to work even though people repeatedly told us it was dumb.


I can state 100% that we did not intend the mechanic to function this way.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#2566 - 2012-06-23 16:20:23 UTC
Holander Switzerland wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:


I think you are sailing about as close to the wind as you can get Holander. You may want to take self enforced break, go and get some fresh air and do something else, before you say something else and get given a break.


Oh man, looking out for me. Where would I be without my wing-man, uh, er, whoever you are. I'm going to continue flying higher though and you can go back to being irrelevant.



In a game with this many players, we are each as relevant as one another. The fact that you choose to be rude and discourteous to someone merely offering honest advice says little for your character sir.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Ryunosuke Kusanagi
#2567 - 2012-06-23 16:20:26 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Ryunosuke Kusanagi wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Ryunosuke Kusanagi wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:


I can only speak for myself but I did not ever receive any detail whatsoever regarding this until after it had been taken advantage of. From anyone.

That being said we were aware that there was problems with the design and a fix had already been written for it.



Wait, if you knew of the problem and had a fix for it already, why did you NOT hotfix it?


This takes time to take effect. Hotfixing would have had 0 impact.


no no, from what you implied, is that you had known about the flaws from around the time it was released, and that you had already been working on a fix for it, or at least before all this went down. or am I misunderstanding what you said?


I didn't imply since release. I implied prior to being notified.


ahh I see. Still there is a small discrepency in your statements, The Devs knew about the problem, but you did not? it sounds like there isnt clear communications from the devs to your team that "Hey, this might be a problem, might want to keep an eye on it." type of deal. And apparently, not confirming or denying anything in this statement, that the devs knew about this from it's introduction on Sisi, I do not have the bug reports or such to view this so cannot say one way or another.
Holander Switzerland
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2568 - 2012-06-23 16:21:31 UTC
Actually yeah this is a good point, if people were warning them about this before it left sisi, isn't that pretty much consent for whatever was in the patch.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#2569 - 2012-06-23 16:21:45 UTC  |  Edited by: corestwo
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Aryth wrote:
Popping in. Will be out of pocket rest of day. I was hoping to have seen a Dev Blog by now but no dice.

Status for me right now:
1.2T in hard assets taken at least. Possibly more. I would need to go and put a hard value on all the BPC's seized. This was mixed in with my own stuff, I didn't keep separate stacks.
1.7B in LP zeroed out. Yes, that is a B.

So even if you value LP at 1k isk each, when it's 2k if you cashed it in properly, I am out about 3T since last night. No word yet from CCP. Going to wait to see what the statement says, this is pretty surprising to me as we feel this is all legitimate gameplay and they seem to be reflecting that in their press releases. So I don't want to speculate too much right now on their thought process. It's a black box right now.



You know we won't comment on individual items on this forum and we welcome you to do the same.

Some LP was seized from people who were abusing, and I do mean abusing, this mechanic in order to prevent a crash of the FW markets. It will stay that way until Monday at the earliest.

Nothing that's been printed by any news source is in any way accurate and any numbers that have been printed were made up by these "journalists".




In other words, "assets have been impounded pending further investigation." Which is what we thought. Might have been a little cleaner if that had been announced yesterday though.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Danfen Fenix
#2570 - 2012-06-23 16:23:01 UTC
People keep throwing around the word sandbox...

The clue is in the spelling


Sand box

All sandboxes have walls, and goons simply hit them this time P Whats the big deal?

One thing I have noticed though with you goons is that, when somethings in your favour, you're all happy. Once it's against you, you whine like theres no tommorow...All the while knocking on people who whine about you, or things you agree with.

HTFU?
Tallon Sylph
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2571 - 2012-06-23 16:23:28 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Tallon Sylph wrote:
AureoBroker wrote:
Dear goons; again.
This is an exploit, that is a completely unintented use of game mechanics.


We didn't intend for this game mechanic to work in the way that we designed it to work even though people repeatedly told us it was dumb.


I can state 100% that we did not intend the mechanic to function this way.


Not working as intended?

Oh my.

Maybe you guys should make things better rather than going on asset grabbing rampages when a group of players understands the impact of your changes better than you do.
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#2572 - 2012-06-23 16:23:41 UTC
corestwo wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Aryth wrote:
Popping in. Will be out of pocket rest of day. I was hoping to have seen a Dev Blog by now but no dice.

Status for me right now:
1.2T in hard assets taken at least. Possibly more. I would need to go and put a hard value on all the BPC's seized. This was mixed in with my own stuff, I didn't keep separate stacks.
1.7B in LP zeroed out. Yes, that is a B.

So even if you value LP at 1k isk each, when it's 2k if you cashed it in properly, I am out about 3T since last night. No word yet from CCP. Going to wait to see what the statement says, this is pretty surprising to me as we feel this is all legitimate gameplay and they seem to be reflecting that in their press releases. So I don't want to speculate too much right now on their thought process. It's a black box right now.



You know we won't comment on individual items on this forum and we welcome you to do the same.

Some LP was seized from people who were abusing, and I do mean abusing, this mechanic in order to prevent a crash of the FW markets. It will stay that way until Monday at the earliest.

Nothing that's been printed by any news source is in any way accurate and any numbers that have been printed were made up by these "journalists".


In other words, "assets have been impounded pending further investigation." Which is what we thought. Might have been a little cleaner if that had been announced yesterday though.


I don't disagree. We should have notified the people we did things to.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#2573 - 2012-06-23 16:24:34 UTC
Tallon Sylph wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Tallon Sylph wrote:
AureoBroker wrote:
Dear goons; again.
This is an exploit, that is a completely unintented use of game mechanics.


We didn't intend for this game mechanic to work in the way that we designed it to work even though people repeatedly told us it was dumb.


I can state 100% that we did not intend the mechanic to function this way.


Not working as intended?

Oh my.

Maybe you guys should make things better rather than going on asset grabbing rampages when a group of players understands the impact of your changes better than you do.


If that ever happens I'll agree with you.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Doctor Benway Kado
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2574 - 2012-06-23 16:24:38 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Stensson
Please refrain from disputing moderation actions - ISD Stensson
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2575 - 2012-06-23 16:25:08 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
I don't disagree. We should have notified the people we did things to.


So, learning experience then?

GROUP HUG, EVERYONE!
Sverige Pahis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2576 - 2012-06-23 16:25:29 UTC
ok "suqq madiq" i'll try and remember that
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2577 - 2012-06-23 16:26:22 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Blawrf McTaggart wrote:
you do know that suggesting someone kills themselves is bannable nowadays?


because they couldn't possibly implying that people just need to have a shave because they look scruffy?


Wouldn't the razor blades have been worn dull by the sand? It's pretty dangerous using a dull blade.
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2578 - 2012-06-23 16:26:40 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Tallon Sylph wrote:
Maybe you guys should make things better rather than going on asset grabbing rampages when a group of players understands the impact of your changes better than you do.


If that ever happens I'll agree with you.


Ok. Please see this thread for a prime example of it happening.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#2579 - 2012-06-23 16:27:56 UTC
Tallon Sylph wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Tallon Sylph wrote:
AureoBroker wrote:
Dear goons; again.
This is an exploit, that is a completely unintented use of game mechanics.


We didn't intend for this game mechanic to work in the way that we designed it to work even though people repeatedly told us it was dumb.


I can state 100% that we did not intend the mechanic to function this way.


Not working as intended?

Oh my.

Maybe you guys should make things better rather than going on asset grabbing rampages when a group of players understands the impact of your changes better than you do.

Now now, the police will impound property while investigating a crime, and that's basically what this is, at this point anyway. The police will also usually tell you, but hey, notifications do get delayed sometime.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Imiarr Timshae
Funny Men In Funny Hats
#2580 - 2012-06-23 16:28:36 UTC
Just to save Screegs the typing:

The bottom line is you have to tolerate what we do or go make your own internet spaceship game to play.

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