EVE General Discussion

~null-sec zealots~

~propagandists~

what i don't understand is why hiseccers, who have substantially lower individual overhead than anybody in nullsec, feel entitled to nullsec levels of personal income

citation needed

Go for it.

Obliterate High Sec. Smash that nerf bat down on everything.

Send Level 4's
Send Level 3's
Send Level 2's to Low sec.

Remove all Ore except 1 unit Veldspar.
Plex can only be redeemed in a player outpost you are a member of.
Noob corp players can't fly anything bigger than a T1 frigate.


Then find the Dev in SA that wants your Sub counts.

Why do you hive mind geniuses of the goonies care? Let everyone play the damned game as they see fit.

I just started regularly logging in to the game after four or five months. I think the price spikes are fecking brilliant and a half tbh. All of us, myself included, coasted on easy resources for too long. Years too long. I hope tier 1 battleships go up to two hundred million each. I want the whole tactical scheme of Eve to be subject to a fundamental redesign.

You know why?

First of all because that's how it originated, and was arguably meant to be played. Second because you children are all spoiled. Bring it on, CCP. And when you're done, remove PLEXs. Let's kick this ***** off to a grand new start, eh?

Dirk embraces the future! :D

You can pry my level 4s from my COLD DEAD HANDS!

Apples and oranges.

The needs of null, notably sov but also jump fuel, are quite different from highsec.

While superficially, they seem the same, they are not. And that changes the game people play.

Highsec is a well developed capitalism with state protection, were stuff matters more than territory.

Market pvp is the dominant way to make money. People mostly mission for standings, not cash. There are no long term carebears, only a continuous string of new players that either leave when missions and mining prove boring, or end up in nullsec as grunts mooching free ships.

Nullsec is a well developed feudalism, where territory matters more than stuff.

Mining and plexing are the dominant form of money making. People mostly fight for the killboards and territory. There are no players that only do null, they all have "casual" accounts to play when they dont feel being on comms. A continous stream of players arrive mostly directly into null, either alts or new players lured by marketing. They all sooner or later end up back in hisec either ******* up as spies (and hence blacklisted) or bored of being grunts.

You see what happens? An endless cycle of renewal. Only those on top of the food chain are static.

I highly doubt people fund null play with highsec play. I think it is the other way around, in particular ganking and pirating, but also marauder missioning.

As with your previous assertions, however, we both speak anecdotally. What we need is a player base API or CCP provided charts that quantify actual player behavior.

Otherwise, we are both speaking out of our asses.

Of course, you can always drop the pretense and admit the truth: you want nullsec to be the game. Fair enough.

I think the game is more interesting with the empire/null divide. As I showed, Null is feudalism and Hisec is capitalism. They are different games. What harm does it do if people want to play one, the other, or both?

did you make this up?

don't answer that (you did)



yeah uh Goonswarm is kinda based on new players effectively starting in nullsec and we have a pretty solid rate of retention - I kinda know this because I'd be the one who answers to Mittens if we weren't retaining our newbies.



and how did you reach that conclusion? there are tons of nullseccers who use hisec alts to fund their PvP.

A lot of what you just posted is, imo, fairly accurate. But I'd like to add to it by reposting something else I wrote in the other thread, because it's directly applicable,


In economics null is what's known as being a "primary industry" - ie: it extracts raw resources from the environment for sale like how logging and oil companies to in real life (there are lone exceptions, like supercaps but overall it stands), 0.0 exports raw moon goo, raw isk, officer modules, high-end ore, etc. to secondary (manufacturing) and tertiary (retail, market) industries (as well as primary production of low-end mins), whose roles are filled by high-security space. Things are manufactured in highsec not only because it's far, far safer, but because game mechanics make it literally impossible to make a section of 0.0 as efficient and useful as an equivalent piece of highsec. What I at least am trying to propose is making it so that game mechanics at least make it possible for 0.0 to develop secondary and tertiary industries of it own. No 'handouts', but just at least the tools to make it possible. Then there'd be an incentive to 0.0 alliances to actually bring in lots of miners and industrialists to fuel their own internal economies instead of just a raw source of rent income.



To add your thoughts in, "feudalism" was the default form of governance before the Industrial Age occurred and the majority of the population was centered in (agrarian) resource extraction- workers were tied to a plot of land and contributed a part of what they extracted from the ground to their lords. Null however cannot 'industrialize' from this state because the game mechanics don't allow it to be possible. You consider this state of affairs good, however most players judging by the 0.0 population evidently do not.



You can "highly doubt" null players earning ISK in highsec all you want. I can tell you first hand Cascade Imminent was officially high-sec Incursion only as far as ISK goes before the vanguard nerf. While I was writing this post I had to take a break so I could slowboat my shiny PvE ship back from a 9/10 plex in an unclaimed system after coming out with a total of 50M isk in combined drops and bounties (I have the worst luck imaginable with drops). After getting ready to fight a neut alone in a marauder over 50 mil I can see why some guys might choose to grind ISK in L4s instead.

Fortunately it turned out he was in a vigil and logged off at the sight of my mighty nullbear machine.


Every null player I've talked to, every null CSM delegate that's been elected that put out a platform, has wanted a revamp of 0.0 industry to make substantial development possible. Goons, who use supply convoys more then anyone in the game, would happily give it up if it meant their competition had to as well. And it's not just 0.0 people that dislike it, most industrialists stay far away from null with the refrain that 0.0 lacks opportunity in industry, and it's hard to disagree. Or that 'builders' are treated as burdens (which, frankly, they are when they've been obsoleted by supply convoys). You might like it for some aesthetic reason, but don't be surprised when the majority of players don't.