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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Faction Warfare: or How I learned to AFK in a frigate

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zero9300
Broski Bad End
#41 - 2012-06-21 15:02:29 UTC
Meditril wrote:

Here are some reasons why I would do this:

  1. I am not playing this game for earning ISK, I am playing it for fun. ISK earning = job, and job is something I have in RL.
  2. If he is really AFK then it takes me one minute max to kill him... so not much time lost.
  3. If he is not AFK and starts playing cat & mouse with me then hey, great! At least I have some fun hunting him which is also a valid form of PVP.

If I were playing this game for earning ISK, I would join the cfc. Shooting down a 500k plexing rifter is one of the least rewarding things I could do in eve. It isn't fun. I don't get some delusion that I am an amazing pvper having tons of pvp fun killing t1 frigate alts, or simply chasing them off their pve sites.

If playing cat & mouse with a worthless farming ship that is literally impossible to catch is fun to you, I don't really know what to say to you. You've beaten me. I am beaten.
zero9300
Broski Bad End
#42 - 2012-06-21 15:06:54 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Shadow Adanza wrote:
zero9300 wrote:

I could probably get more fights sitting at belt 1 at 0 in any of these systems.

QFFT
Reason #5 why Shadow despises plexing.

FW plexes offer ship limited combat away from tackle/blob with bigger ships/hot drop model of 'pvp' provided at belts. That is the good thing about them.




Yes, indeed, it is one thing I like, however, its just one little instance for like minded people to find one another. The goal of taking a site or any faction related objective in totally tangential to the guy who wants to go into a site and fight you knowing he, too, won't be hotdropped/blobbed with ease. The majority of the time you sit in these sites, no one comes around to actually take the site from you.
Shadow Adanza
Gold Crest Salvage
#43 - 2012-06-21 16:28:48 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Shadow Adanza wrote:
zero9300 wrote:

I could probably get more fights sitting at belt 1 at 0 in any of these systems.

QFFT
Reason #5 why Shadow despises plexing.

FW plexes offer ship limited combat away from tackle/blob with bigger ships/hot drop model of 'pvp' provided at belts. That is the good thing about them.




Agreed. But the other person has to want the fight as well. A good number of them, they even get a sniff of you out they go.
It's more effective to sit in an offensive plex and wait for someone to come to you.

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Kyle Ward
Doomheim
#44 - 2012-06-21 16:58:26 UTC
The situation is quite dire. Last night I fitted up a vigil with nary a gun and headed to the closest contested system. I found it empty and quickly made my way to a minor plex. As I was settling in to a nice orbit my cat jumped onto my lap, giving me quite a startle as she usually just keeps to herself. It would seem that lately shes had a lot on her mind, since her step-mother is coming down to visit on the holiday weekend, and she's never approved of my cats choice in men. Having recently become engaged to poor canary from the wrong side of Detroit, shes concerned that her step mother will not approve as they are 'of noble blood'. It would be such a shame as I've seen them together and they seem truly happy. I tried to reassure her that everything would work out for the best, but I dunno. I saw something in her eye last night - like when someone stands on a really tall building and gets the urge to jump.

And then my journal flashed, and I got like, 10k lp.

The Sandbox, you're playing it wrong!
Axl Borlara
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2012-06-21 17:18:38 UTC
sYnc Vir wrote:

CCP heard people bitching about plexes being unrewarding and meaningless, so changed them in Inferno. Now plexes are rewarding, but remain mostly meaningless. Systems are flipping back from one militia to another because people dont care about defending anything other then the system they live it. Its pointless to defend anything else.

Now if CCP made Miltia Faction Standing requirement 2.0 and gave anyone leaving FW an instantly -4.0 Faction standing hit. Then **** would have some meaning. As losing your home system and dropping FW to move would be a huge hit on your ability to simply rejoin a day later.


I agree completely.
FW needs meaning and reward for being loyal to your faction.

Reducing the faction standing requirement was a disaster when mixed with the speed tanking.
Everyone can join with no risk whatsoever.

Require some (small but not too small) amount of faction standing to join the militia.
Require faction standing to stay in militia at pilot, corp and alliance levels.
Add ways to lose faction standing.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#46 - 2012-06-21 17:37:00 UTC
zero9300 wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Shadow Adanza wrote:
zero9300 wrote:

I could probably get more fights sitting at belt 1 at 0 in any of these systems.

QFFT
Reason #5 why Shadow despises plexing.

FW plexes offer ship limited combat away from tackle/blob with bigger ships/hot drop model of 'pvp' provided at belts. That is the good thing about them.




Yes, indeed, it is one thing I like, however, its just one little instance for like minded people to find one another. The goal of taking a site or any faction related objective in totally tangential to the guy who wants to go into a site and fight you knowing he, too, won't be hotdropped/blobbed with ease. The majority of the time you sit in these sites, no one comes around to actually take the site from you.



This is true. Most of the enemy militia almost certainly does not even know you are there.

That is why a system where militia players are notified where and when a plex is attacked has been advocated pretty much since faction war started.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Theronth Valarax
V0LTA
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#47 - 2012-06-21 17:52:46 UTC
Back in the old days plexes were being run only by RP-ers. Now they are run by RP-ers and spacejews. How do you think, which group is bigger? (Hint: try counting minmatar Vigils in Black Rise)
If CCP wanted FW to become a real stepping stone to 0.0, imo they succeded.

Check out my Youtube channel
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#48 - 2012-06-21 17:58:26 UTC
I lol'd

Theronth Valarax wrote:
Now they are run by RP-ers and spacejews. .



Personally I get a ton of fights in plexes. If we get blue balled too much we just camp gates with insta locking thrashers and wtfpwn all the silly carebears trying to get to their plexes. Baller fit drams, billion isk pods, getting more LP and lols from that anyways :)

nom nom
Duke Dantez
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2012-06-21 18:01:44 UTC
zero9300 wrote:
Duke Dantez wrote:

Wrong. I force fights all the time in and around plexes. If you can only get a fight when someone else lets you then that says more about your pvp skills than it does about game mechanics.

I logged on for only 30 minutes today and was able to get not one but two kills from plexers that did not want to engage me. The thing is I had to do some chasing to do it. Not everything in this game is supposed to be easy.

And don’t talk to me about the LP farmers who go deep behind enemy lines and contest systems that are hovering around 7%. We all know if you want to get a fight you go to the front lines and hit a plex in a system that is 50% or more.

You are also flat out wrong about the new FW mechanics reducing the amount of PVP. Have a look at any FW KB and you will see an increase in kills/losses ten-fold ever since the patch hit. You can't argue against those numbers I'm sorry. I'm not saying the patch is perfect but increasing the Ewar on NPC's will not only decrease PVP but it will do nothing to stop the "afk plexers."

Uhh, it is more telling of the skills of the people you "force" to fight. What exactly did you kill? How did he not see you come into system? Or see you coming on long scan? Or see you coming on short scan? Why didn't he warp off when you were 60km from the capture point? Against an aware, competent pilot, you cannot force a fight in those plexes.
If I wanted to force someone to fight I would go back to killing TEST ratters in fountain. Oops, I waved my epeen around, I will stop that ad hominem garbage if you agree to.
edit: if I only got 2 kills in 30 minutes of chasing around idiots my bloodlust would be quite unsated.

I understand you TRIAD and wolfsbrigade guys have a lot to gain by keeping the status quo abusing the current system. I am by no means saying the mechanics are worse than the old ones, but they are still pretty garbage.

To answer your question, I killed two slicers, one was tech 2 fit and both where pvp fit. Neither one of them wanted to engage. I was in a slicer and supported by a friendly in a thrasher. I won’t go into the details of how I forced them to engage but slicers are a bit harder to catch than AB fit Rifters.

I was simply pointing out how you are wrong in assuming that you can only engage people who are willing to fight. Suggesting that I was showing off my epeen when I was offering up an example to counter your misconception just makes you look like a child.

I don’t know what you mean by saying Wolfsbrigade and TRIAD are abusing the current system. No one in Triad is running plexes for LP. There are far more efficient ways to make LP then sitting on a timer. To be honest I have no clue why someone would run a plex for the sole purpose of making LP because missions still pay out way more LP per hour. I would assume they are plexing to get the standings to do level 4 missions, where the real LP gains are.

Anyone who has half a brain in FW runs plexes for only two reasons, occupancy and PVP. The fact we get a little bit of LP is just icing on the cake. I feel bad for the morons who think plexing is where the LP gold mine is.
Theronth Valarax
V0LTA
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#50 - 2012-06-21 18:03:46 UTC
Princess Nexxala wrote:
I lol'd

Theronth Valarax wrote:
Now they are run by RP-ers and spacejews. .



Personally I get a ton of fights in plexes. If we get blue balled too much we just camp gates with insta locking thrashers and wtfpwn all the silly carebears trying to get to their plexes. Baller fit drams, billion isk pods, getting more LP and lols from that anyways :)

You seem to not see the difference in capturing and camping a plex.

Check out my Youtube channel
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#51 - 2012-06-21 18:10:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Nexxala
Not at all, and I wasn't referring to camping a plex. That would be silly when I can camp a system gate and get everything passing through. Whether they want to fight or not. My point being this thread is stupid, HTFU and learn to make them fight you. PvP without a bit of work is boring anywaysBig smile

Theronth Valarax wrote:

You seem to not see the difference in capturing and camping a plex.


If you want big fleet fights **** off to null with the rest of the noobs

nom nom
zero9300
Broski Bad End
#52 - 2012-06-21 18:14:45 UTC  |  Edited by: zero9300
Duke Dantez wrote:

To answer your question, I killed two slicers, one was tech 2 fit and both where pvp fit. Neither one of them wanted to engage. I was in a slicer and supported by a friendly in a thrasher. I won’t go into the details of how I forced them to engage but slicers are a bit harder to catch than AB fit Rifters.

I was simply pointing out how you are wrong in assuming that you can only engage people who are willing to fight. Suggesting that I was showing off my epeen when I was offering up an example to counter your misconception just makes you look like a child.

I don’t know what you mean by saying Wolfsbrigade and TRIAD are abusing the current system. No one in Triad is running plexes for LP. There are far more efficient ways to make LP then sitting on a timer. To be honest I have no clue why someone would run a plex for the sole purpose of making LP because missions still pay out way more LP per hour. I would assume they are plexing to get the standings to do level 4 missions, where the real LP gains are.

Anyone who has half a brain in FW runs plexes for only two reasons, occupancy and PVP. The fact we get a little bit of LP is just icing on the cake. I feel bad for the morons who think plexing is where the LP gold mine is.

I guarantee those slicers were either looking away from their monitors or really did intend to fight you, or they had some other deficiency in awareness.

I want you to go into the details because it is literally impossible to force commit someone in low sec who can see you coming a mile away, starts at his dictated range, and can warp out before you can get lock if he refuses to commit himself to a fight.

edit: you said it must be my error in not being able to "force" fights, which is ad hominem garbage, and I suggest that anyone you manage to catch is a statement of their error, not any skill in "the chaser"
Duke Dantez
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2012-06-21 18:15:47 UTC
Theronth Valarax wrote:
Back in the old days plexes were being run only by RP-ers. Now they are run by RP-ers and spacejews. How do you think, which group is bigger? (Hint: try counting minmatar Vigils in Black Rise)
If CCP wanted FW to become a real stepping stone to 0.0, imo they succeded.

Only the dumb ones who still haven't figured out the best way to make LP.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#54 - 2012-06-21 18:17:38 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
zero9300 wrote:
because it is literally impossible to force commit someone in low sec who can see you coming a mile away, starts at his dictated range, and can warp out before you can get lock if he refuses to commit himself to a fight.


You can still commit most non-cloakies to a fight on a gate if you set up right.
Theronth Valarax
V0LTA
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#55 - 2012-06-21 18:19:04 UTC
Duke Dantez wrote:
Theronth Valarax wrote:
Back in the old days plexes were being run only by RP-ers. Now they are run by RP-ers and spacejews. How do you think, which group is bigger? (Hint: try counting minmatar Vigils in Black Rise)
If CCP wanted FW to become a real stepping stone to 0.0, imo they succeded.

Only the dumb ones who still haven't figured out the best way to make LP.

Sadly yes.

Btw Nexx, you can't force a plexjew to figh you. He will just go to different system/ site.

I agree though, that this thread is terrible just like majority of FW ones.

Check out my Youtube channel
Duke Dantez
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2012-06-21 18:21:32 UTC
Cearain wrote:
zero9300 wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Shadow Adanza wrote:
zero9300 wrote:

I could probably get more fights sitting at belt 1 at 0 in any of these systems.

QFFT
Reason #5 why Shadow despises plexing.

FW plexes offer ship limited combat away from tackle/blob with bigger ships/hot drop model of 'pvp' provided at belts. That is the good thing about them.




Yes, indeed, it is one thing I like, however, its just one little instance for like minded people to find one another. The goal of taking a site or any faction related objective in totally tangential to the guy who wants to go into a site and fight you knowing he, too, won't be hotdropped/blobbed with ease. The majority of the time you sit in these sites, no one comes around to actually take the site from you.



This is true. Most of the enemy militia almost certainly does not even know you are there.

That is why a system where militia players are notified where and when a plex is attacked has been advocated pretty much since faction war started.

This is a great idea.

But some people (not you) chose to ignore the fact that when you change a game mechanic to squash a particular behavior (“afk” plexers) you might inadvertently destroy the mechanic that encourages fights (like adding more intense Ewar to NPCs).

With a notification system you can easily travel to the system with the “afk” rifter and kill him.

I think your idea would fix the afk rifter problem without interfering with pvp.
zero9300
Broski Bad End
#57 - 2012-06-21 18:23:58 UTC
chatgris wrote:
zero9300 wrote:
because it is literally impossible to force commit someone in low sec who can see you coming a mile away, starts at his dictated range, and can warp out before you can get lock if he refuses to commit himself to a fight.


You talk as if this is a bad thing...

It alone isn't a bad thing, but someone who just wants to do pve sites (L4s, plexes, etc.) are doing so at very little risk, with no incetive provided by the FW mechanics to commit, any committal from an enemy is solely based in their desire to shoot your ship, not fueled at all by any faction warfare objective (in fact it can only be hindered).

Too many pilots view FW as this isk cash cow, which has been wholly exploited.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#58 - 2012-06-21 18:26:17 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Duke Dantez wrote:


But some people (not you) chose to ignore the fact that when you change a game mechanic to squash a particular behavior (“afk” plexers) you might inadvertently destroy the mechanic that encourages fights (like adding more intense Ewar to NPCs).

With a notification system you can easily travel to the system with the “afk” rifter and kill him.

I think your idea would fix the afk rifter problem without interfering with pvp.


Even with a notification system, those that just want to afk plex will run and run until the pvpers get bored, and they will still be making progress on the plexes as you chase them around (they hit the button for 20s here and there etc). The best solution I've heard is a combination of changes

1) Notifications when someone is in a plex

2) Kill all rats - at least then a t1 frigate without guns can't be as effective. Farmers need to choose between higher dps/range ships (which are generally larger and easier to catch) or small ships with close range dps that will not farm as effectively. EDIT: The rats do not replace the timer, they are in addition to it.

3) Timers count backwards to starting state (NOT capture) when no-one is on a plex button. For example, say farmer starts running a plex, and 4 minutes later I get to his system (after being notified) and chase him out. He runs away. While I am chasing him around, his work is undone which means that he can't just return to his plex with his previous work still there and resume farming, while he runs he loses his work without forcing the pvper to sit on the button and cry himself to sleep out of boredom.
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#59 - 2012-06-21 18:26:44 UTC
Sometimes yes, but these space jews are pretty terrible and predictable on how they will behave after running from said plex. I suppose if you don't have the desire to chase them around I can understand that. Personally I get great satisfaction from killing them. I cherish their canned response to my "gf" in local which is typically "**** you" or "wtf just happened?"

Theronth Valarax wrote:


Btw Nexx, you can't force a plexjew to figh you. He will just go to different system/ site.


nom nom
Theronth Valarax
V0LTA
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#60 - 2012-06-21 18:30:07 UTC
Princess Nexxala wrote:
Sometimes yes, but these space jews are pretty terrible and predictable on how they will behave after running from said plex. I suppose if you don't have the desire to chase them around I can understand that. Personally I get great satisfaction from killing them. I cherish their canned response to my "gf" in local which is typically "**** you" or "wtf just happened?"

Theronth Valarax wrote:


Btw Nexx, you can't force a plexjew to figh you. He will just go to different system/ site.



Some people like apples, others like oranges.

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