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Making nullsec vibrant again

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Mascen Carew
Ordo Carnifex
#1161 - 2012-06-27 06:18:41 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Mascen Carew wrote:
Anhenka wrote:



And how would you try and do that?

You say "hey lets add a 30% tax on all things sold in highsec!" "That will drive them to a lowsec hub!"

You know whats happens?
Things become 30% more expensive, and Jita stays Jita.

What sort of mechanic could induce people to move an active highsec tradehub to lowsec?


Access, Jita wasn't the first Super Hub, look up the Yulai system. CCP nerfed it, Jita and the other hubs need not go just be downgraded a tad, they are only the way they are while CCP allows them to be.


There's a difference between changing access levels within highsec to prevent a single superhub for the entire universe and somehow changing access so that a hub naturally moves into lowsec of all places.

As long as there is a continuous highsec, the trade hubs will be located there. and people propositions to add lowsec belts between empires opens up a whole nother can of nasty worms, but even with that, the hubs would be in highsec, just more isolated from each other.


My question to that is, why should they be? I've just put forward a thought, a glimmer of an idea based on human development and the expansion/migration of humanity. It would indeed open a can of worms, but I think it would be an interesting can of worms,reduce the manufacturing costs in low, the best prices/returns could be in low, people could still sell or manufacture in Hi with out restrictions but they would not get the same value for their goods, similarly they could buy in Hi Sec but at increased cost

"Life wasn't meant to be easy"
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#1162 - 2012-06-27 06:29:41 UTC
My memory is not good, because I drink a lot, but did I come in here before and make any mention of how removing dependency on gates and letting ships warp around like in Star Trek would really stir things up?

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Goremageddon Box
Guerrilla Flotilla
#1163 - 2012-06-27 06:39:39 UTC
can we just throw some fluorescent pink in low sec and call it "vibrant" ?
James Arget
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
#1164 - 2012-06-27 06:44:06 UTC
Small groups of dedicated players who were formerly drawn to nullsec for the idea of being able to fight as a group, claim space, hold it, and make it pay for their PVP, are now going to w-space instead.

Why? W-space means putting up your tent on an island. Nullsec means putting up a tent on a football field. Sure, it's empty most of the time, but they don't usually give the the game schedule either.

CSM 8 Representative

http://csm8.org
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1165 - 2012-06-27 09:46:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimmi Chan
Marconus Orion wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Marconus Orion wrote:
Could you give an example please.


I will try. Big smile

Remember I am ignorant of Null Sec politics and power blocs - bear in mind as you read.

A Null Sec alliance in 6NJ8-V (0.0) does not have enough slots to efficiently refine their ABC so they decide to outsource the work to a high sec station in Saisio. They use a jump freighter/bridge to move the ore quickly to M-OEE8 (0.0) and warp to 0 on the gate to Taisy (0.3). They jump a scout into Taisy and the gate appears to be clear. Local and D-Scan only show one other person in system. Freighter is given the go ahead to jump into Taisy and warp to 0 on the gate to Nalvula (0.4). Again, scout goes through and sees a large group of negative sec status pirates sitting on the gate.

Alliance has the choice of jumping through a combat fleet to clear a path for the freighter or finding an alternate route. If the freighter and its escort fleet emerge victorious, the fleet then warps to 0 on the Vuorrassi (0.5) gate and jumps in and then finishes their run to Saisio to refine the ABC there. Then has to make the trip back with the refined goods and essentially run the gauntlet again.

Thus creating small gang PvP in lowsec and more pew pew for null sec PvP enthusiasts that may want to do something other than 1000+ member fleet battles just as a change of pace.

Bear in mind, none of this can be deployed successfully unless the industry in Null is improved. Otherwise, Null Sec alliances would have to take EVERYTHING through lowsec and they have enough risk as it is just living in Null (or at least they should considering the intent of design). It should be more efficient to do this stuff in Null but not enough to completely eliminate the occasional desire to take the stuff to High Sec to improve efficiency.

This is just a rough idea and obviously not a finished product but at least a baseline for discussion.

Does this make the idea clearer? What are your thoughts? What from your experience could be changed here to make it better or more vibrant?

Unless you are barring all cynos in low sec, the work around would be carriers, like before the jump freighters showed up in the game. Also titans could bridge freighters directly to the last low sec, thus avoiding the 'escort' part. Then a step further would be trading the goods to a NPC alt for further risk aversion. End result would be the same untouchable freighters transporting mass goods to and from Jita. Ugh

I'm not a big fan of being the one to shoot holes in an idea, had it done to me too many times. Apologies, but what I wrote make sense?


No apologies needed. I get it. There is no panacea to address this problem. I think the discussion, at least when it is constructive and realistic, is helpful.

It seems, based on your response, that the current mechanics are the deterrent for this kind of example. What mechanics would need to be changed to make this kind of occurrence viable AND fun for both sides? What would be the downside of changing those mechanics?

E: Also - when was the last Great War? Why haven't I heard of any ****storms in Null? Null Sec is what CCP has been using to sell this game but if it is, as many say, a bunch of blues in Non-Aggression Pact agreements then I think steps should be taken, NOT by CCP. but by the Null Sec player base, to remove this and give CCP more of what they can use for marketing. I think if Null residents could do this kind of thing, they'd be in a better position to leverage that marketing for the improvements that they seek. They might even be able to negotiate terms before a war. "We'll kick the crap out of each other for a little while if you will fix industry in Null Sec and make our bounties not suck, Deal?"

Just thinking out loud.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Better Than You
Doomheim
#1166 - 2012-06-28 15:50:00 UTC
Marconus Orion wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Marconus Orion wrote:
I still don't understand how giving null manufacturing slots and whatever for industry is going to pop the Jita nipple out of null's mouth. Yes, of course, they still need to be done, but I am just curious what the 'big' change will be? Jita is by far, the one stop shopping hot spot for all your needs. With current projection mechanics (being able to transverse the galaxy in minutes), why would anyone stop going to Jita? It is one huge hole in the ground that all the water flows to. There needs to be far more changes and some even huge, to fill that hole up to allow the opportunity for many different oasis markets to form across the galaxy.

Suggestions/ideas?
Remove NPC corps, make people wardeccable as individuals. Add a spool up timer to activating a cyno and highsec wardec corps can start cargo scanning freighters and immediately start deccing the unescorted supply convoys.


I am curious about what I bolded. Pulling that off would be a major game changer, to a degree in my opinion. CCP said, I promise they did but I can't find the blue post, that they like NPC corp chat channels due to how helpful they are for new players. Yes, I know some have said in this very thread they detest the NPC corp chat because of all the noob like questions and stuff, but why should all those new players be punished because some bitter vet spent a couple days in one recently?

War decing individuals (I am assuming you are referring to players even if they are in NPC corps) sounds very interesting. If removing NPC corps turns out to be completely impossible, what if there was some sort of hybrid war dec available? Like sanctions. Someone said earlier to make it where NPC corps can not board capital ships, which I found interesting.

There is indeed several spaceship command skill books that can not be trained on trial accounts. Now assuming (saying this a lot, but I give zero fucks) the other parts of null are addressed properly; what if you could levy a sanction on a specific player. First level would be capital ships. The cheapest sanction to do and if the player is caught in that class ship or larger, Concord turns a blind eye and they are fair game to be blown up by those who issued the sanction. Next level would be battleships and larger, etc, etc... you get the idea. Each level becoming more and more expensive to sanction. Now I don't want to get into pricing and balance or any of that, but the idea is there. I do however think there should be a limit on how far you can go, like you can't put sanctions against anything smaller than a battlecruiser. That way you don't make it impossible for the player to actually play the game if they choose to remain in high sec and lead to simply quitting the game.

It is kind of hard to run those level four missions solo in a cruiser or move freighter loads of goods with a lone hauler.



Meh, just another shoot from the hip idea from a high sec pubbie who actually doesn't live in high sec who will most likely have their post torn apart by trolls who can't read past the author of the post without their head exploding with unfocused rage. Nicolo, I think your heart is in the right place, even if I disagree with what method to use to reach the 'goal', which is a much more exciting and vibrant internet spaceships game.


so you want to be able to decide what i can and can not fly with the press of a button and a few isk?! how is that even remotely balanced in your brain?

if i want to solo a lvl 4 mission then by god i should be allowed to solo that lvl 4 mission. you may not like people using the autopilot feature, but by telling people they cant fly haulers removes this feature practically. good job on taking sand out of the sandbox!
Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1167 - 2012-06-28 16:30:15 UTC
Better Than You wrote:
so you want to be able to decide what i can and can not fly with the press of a button and a few isk?! how is that even remotely balanced in your brain?

if i want to solo a lvl 4 mission then by god i should be allowed to solo that lvl 4 mission. you may not like people using the autopilot feature, but by telling people they cant fly haulers removes this feature practically. good job on taking sand out of the sandbox!

You could still do all of that.

I am glad this thread made it back to the top again. Last few days have been terrible on GD with all the random topics and stuff, threads like these vanishing. Are there people still interested in a constructive discussion in here? Seems like it just kind of ran out of steam and people are done with it. Sad

...


*cricket*


...


Hello?...

*echo*... *echo*
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1168 - 2012-06-28 17:03:02 UTC
Marconus Orion wrote:
Better Than You wrote:
so you want to be able to decide what i can and can not fly with the press of a button and a few isk?! how is that even remotely balanced in your brain?

if i want to solo a lvl 4 mission then by god i should be allowed to solo that lvl 4 mission. you may not like people using the autopilot feature, but by telling people they cant fly haulers removes this feature practically. good job on taking sand out of the sandbox!

You could still do all of that.

I am glad this thread made it back to the top again. Last few days have been terrible on GD with all the random topics and stuff, threads like these vanishing. Are there people still interested in a constructive discussion in here? Seems like it just kind of ran out of steam and people are done with it. Sad

...


*cricket*


...


Hello?...

*echo*... *echo*


I'm still paying attention to it but typically don't reply too often to newer posts that have already been addressed but are posted again because the thread in it's entirety was not read. Also I am at work and have little time to respond to a lot of it. Agreed that the deluge of spammy posts from those upset about moderation kind of buried this one and others.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Rats
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1169 - 2012-06-28 17:05:08 UTC
So much stuff has been posted it tends to start going around in circles ...


Tal

I Fought the Law, and the Law Won... Talon Silverhawk
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1170 - 2012-06-28 17:07:35 UTC
Rats wrote:
So much stuff has been posted it tends to start going around in circles ...


Tal



There does seem to be some truth to this. While I tend to dislike multiple threads on the same issue, I would not mind creating a digest of the main points in this one sans the grade school rubbish posts.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Adelphie
The Lone Wolves.
#1171 - 2012-06-28 17:36:04 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Rats wrote:
So much stuff has been posted it tends to start going around in circles ...


Tal



There does seem to be some truth to this. While I tend to dislike multiple threads on the same issue, I would not mind creating a digest of the main points in this one sans the grade school rubbish posts.


I haven't had time to digest all the different stands, but if someone would like to post or mail me the most interesting posts then ill add a digest when I'm not on the train.
Adelphie
The Lone Wolves.
#1172 - 2012-06-29 21:39:57 UTC
Op has been updated with a summary of the posts so far.

Thanks to Kimmi Chan for the help with this
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#1173 - 2012-06-29 21:45:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rer Eirikr
Honestly starting a new thread with a strong first page of information is not necessarily a bad idea. On other EVE forums we do this all the time to prevent the exact issues you guys are noticing (posts going in circles, people not reading the thread to be informed, etc.)

Edit: Lol, people not "threading the thread", work day is loooong. Lol
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1174 - 2012-06-29 22:17:10 UTC
Woah people, completely ruining Highsec won't make Nullsec more fun for you.
The only thing it'll accomplish is driving new players away from EVE.

If Nullsec is boring for you, look no further then at your nullsec corporation and alliance leaders and their priorities.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Adelphie
The Lone Wolves.
#1175 - 2012-06-29 22:20:47 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Woah people, completely ruining Highsec won't make Nullsec more fun for you.
The only thing it'll accomplish is driving new players away from EVE.

If Nullsec is boring for you, look no further then at your nullsec corporation and alliance leaders and their priorities.


I know it's a long thread, but did you read it?

I think the majority of players don't want to ruin highsec, they just want to differentiate it.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1176 - 2012-06-29 22:23:04 UTC
Rer Eirikr wrote:
Honestly starting a new thread with a strong first page of information is not necessarily a bad idea. On other EVE forums we do this all the time to prevent the exact issues you guys are noticing (posts going in circles, people not reading the thread to be informed, etc.)

Edit: Lol, people not "threading the thread", work day is loooong. Lol


I will send a petition to make sure this is an acceptable option from a forum moderation view.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Rellik B00n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1177 - 2012-06-29 22:28:45 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:


I think it folly to require a single individual to defend against 9000 (in the case of the largest alliance). It sets a dangerous precedent.


I am at war with test and goons, i pod several a day. wheres the problem?
[Of a request for change ask: Who Benefits?](https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=199765)
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1178 - 2012-06-29 22:48:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyprus Black
Delete.

These crappy forums goofed again.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33
Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1179 - 2012-06-30 00:12:21 UTC
Would be nice to have some solid live debates on some of these issues. We need a strong moderator and a real structure to it. I feel like some o this is lost in translation on the forums, if that makes any sense. I know we have the CSM, but no offense, there are a lot more players with strong discussions on topics I would like to hear more from.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1180 - 2012-06-30 00:17:06 UTC
Adelphie wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
Woah people, completely ruining Highsec won't make Nullsec more fun for you.
The only thing it'll accomplish is driving new players away from EVE.

If Nullsec is boring for you, look no further then at your nullsec corporation and alliance leaders and their priorities.


I know it's a long thread, but did you read it?

I think the majority of players don't want to ruin highsec, they just want to differentiate it.


Oh yes I read it just fine ... differentiate? Lol, you should run for government office.

Don't ruin Highsec boring Nullbears.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~