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Making nullsec vibrant again

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Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1001 - 2012-06-25 00:06:25 UTC
Dalts wrote:

6) provide ability to hoover up low ends in 0.0 more efficiently, by previously mentioned Rorqual capital strip miner that has a siege cycle or something.



Add heavy mining drones with similar volume/bandwidth stats of heavy/sentry drones. Both T1 and T2 versions. Have siege mode double the bandwidth and allow for double the drones in space, and apply the Rorq's existing drone bonuses.

Might get the Rorq's out of the pos shields and make mining low-ends worth it by giving them a legal kind of mining bot fleet.
Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1002 - 2012-06-25 00:39:49 UTC
Alaya Carrier wrote:
Only thing the above would accomplish is to raise prices.
Those who will risk their neck with all those oh-so-fun logistics will be the same who need to carry the stuff to 0.0.
Those in hi sec will just see Jita stop being the only big hub and will just do their same stuff each in their empire.
25% tax? Who cares, the only ones who will be really affected by it are end users of the goods.


I am all for various market prices depending on location in the galaxy. Who knows what that kind of market geography could do. That said I highly doubt it would happen given the way the jump mechanics and range work. It is a nice thought that a product could be made and the builder has to decide how to sell it. Sell it closer for a faster sale, but lower profit. Or go on a trip to take their goods to the far reaches of space to sell for a truck load of profit.

Without diving into travel mechanics, would you guys be interested at all in that kind of market?
Tarku Huhtsu
Doomheim
#1003 - 2012-06-25 03:52:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarku Huhtsu
My perception rightly or wrongly is that sections of the Nul Sec community simply can not be trusted, to keep an understanding or business agreement. The Goons in particular and Test as an aside whinge and whine about not having a vibrant nul community, but when Industrialists or Miners look to rent space of them or collocate they inevitably end up being scammed, ganked or both and ridiculed in the forums to boot. There was a thread posted by a Ship Building Corp about a year ago who rented space in nul from the Goons, the Goons had a fleet waiting for them when they warped in, the Corp lost almost every thing, then the Goon responsible for the scam ran it through the forums, that is just one instance there have been many in the past. Really these are the people crying about nul not being vibrant, if Nul is a dead carcase then the Goons and Test are the maggots infesting it and the primary cause that it is under utilised and under developed as a game option.

"All cruelty springs from weakness."
(Seneca, 4BC-AD65)
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1004 - 2012-06-25 04:11:38 UTC
jesus christ
Tarku Huhtsu
Doomheim
#1005 - 2012-06-25 04:16:21 UTC
He has nothing to do with it
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1006 - 2012-06-25 04:31:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Shepard Wong Ogeko
There are plenty of sov holders besides GSF. You can go looking for a better rental agreement from some one else.


Besides, our complaints aren't that we need industrialists. What we need is infrastructure for them, so they actually hang around and build stuff. We already have industrialists, they just go into supercap production or use alts in highsec.
Tarku Huhtsu
Doomheim
#1007 - 2012-06-25 04:41:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarku Huhtsu
Sadly in a lot of situations they seem to be the vocal face of nul, if you want people in nul you first need people to trust the people that they deal with and have reasonably safe access to markets. GSF really does not inspire trust or confidence, if you want nul to work you need to establish neutral turf and trade routes where people can trade [ possibly for a price]. Your big enough and organised enough it should be possible in Eve, most civilisations and even the recent itteration of the old feudal system RL Bikie Gangs have managed it, your corp owns a pan galactic empire the only thing stopping you is ....
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1008 - 2012-06-25 05:09:27 UTC
Yah, people take us seriously because we are awesome and stuff.
Ryoken McKeon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1009 - 2012-06-25 05:22:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryoken McKeon
Alaya Carrier wrote:
Only thing the above would accomplish is to raise prices.
Those who will risk their neck with all those oh-so-fun logistics will be the same who need to carry the stuff to 0.0.

If nullsec organizations had to escort convoys through several systems of cynojammed territory in order to get **** to market, they'd have to guard them very heavily every time they wanted to do something. Moving **** too and from would become more complicated and high sec/low sec organizations would have more of a chance to destroy those convoys. (and take their lucrative cargo.)

Quote:

Those in hi sec will just see Jita stop being the only big hub and will just do their same stuff each in their empire.
25% tax? Who cares, the only ones who will be really affected by it are end users of the goods.



They would be competing with low sec and nullsec industrialists who would exploit the comparative advantage gained from no taxation.
Mrr Woodcock
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1010 - 2012-06-25 06:26:51 UTC
From what I can see, there are a lot of good suggestions. I think we can all agree that low and null both need some love from CCP. In my opinion these are the type of discussions that actually could get a little traction with the Dev's. I just think it cool were kinda all working together for an actual improvement, all sides I mean.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1011 - 2012-06-25 06:44:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Ryoken McKeon wrote:
Alaya Carrier wrote:
Only thing the above would accomplish is to raise prices.
Those who will risk their neck with all those oh-so-fun logistics will be the same who need to carry the stuff to 0.0.

If nullsec organizations had to escort convoys through several systems of cynojammed territory in order to get **** to market, they'd have to guard them very heavily every time they wanted to do something. Moving **** too and from would become more complicated and high sec/low sec organizations would have more of a chance to destroy those convoys. (and take their lucrative cargo.)

Ah, delete jump freighters, right? Or do you mean to make all of lowsec cynojammed? Or NPC null?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1012 - 2012-06-25 06:49:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Ryoken McKeon wrote:
Alaya Carrier wrote:
Only thing the above would accomplish is to raise prices.
Those who will risk their neck with all those oh-so-fun logistics will be the same who need to carry the stuff to 0.0.

If nullsec organizations had to escort convoys through several systems of cynojammed territory in order to get **** to market, they'd have to guard them very heavily every time they wanted to do something. Moving **** too and from would become more complicated and high sec/low sec organizations would have more of a chance to destroy those convoys. (and take their lucrative cargo.)

Why wouldn't they just continue to use NPC corp freighter alts like they do now?
Then just scout out an empty lowsec system and then have the jump freighter instajump the second he jumps into lowsec?

The only real way to stop 0.0 supply convoys from highsec from being the best option for supplying alliances with goods is to simply do away with making PVP optional via decshields and NPC corps. Anything less and the most powerful entities in the game will continue to protect their most valuable assets using mechanics allegedly intended to help the weakest.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1013 - 2012-06-25 06:52:13 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Ryoken McKeon wrote:
Alaya Carrier wrote:
Only thing the above would accomplish is to raise prices.
Those who will risk their neck with all those oh-so-fun logistics will be the same who need to carry the stuff to 0.0.

If nullsec organizations had to escort convoys through several systems of cynojammed territory in order to get **** to market, they'd have to guard them very heavily every time they wanted to do something. Moving **** too and from would become more complicated and high sec/low sec organizations would have more of a chance to destroy those convoys. (and take their lucrative cargo.)

Why wouldn't they just continue to use NPC corp freighter alts like they do now?

I think they mean NPC null/lowsec is cynojammed... and the market system in low/null is as well.

It's that crazy CCP dream of escort the freighter missions, except it'll just be stage in Torrinos or something instead.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
ReiAnn
Nova-Tek
#1014 - 2012-06-25 07:04:34 UTC  |  Edited by: ReiAnn
Nerfing high sec is only going to force people out of game. You can't make people who don't want to deal with the petty bullshit deal with the petty buillshit. They are just going to quit the game. No people, no money for ccp, ccp culls its staff yet again. Not enough staff, no new content.

Null sec is entrneched with corps/alliances with more players than any new corp can even recruit and more isk than anyone can spend. If you want to make null sec more interesting, you have to break up those mega alliances. Maybe even give high sec a way to provide new corps with the ability to build up enough to start taking minor sov.

~~last minute thought~~

its silly that I can only 'mine' a certain number of planets via a skill, while you can anchor as many poses as you want. limit the number of poses, then you have more territory breakups. More groups to fight. More flexing in hte market. More reasons for traders to pay attention to null sec. Without guarentee ways to keep indy stuff safe, i highly doubt anyone is going to put a lot of effort into increasing indy in null sec.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1015 - 2012-06-25 07:23:29 UTC
ReiAnn wrote:
Nerfing high sec is only going to force people out of game.

An assertion made by many but backed up by zero evidence. I on the other hand propose removing something that actually has an effect of forcing people out of game (NPC corps) according to CCP.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1016 - 2012-06-25 07:42:04 UTC
ReiAnn wrote:
its silly that I can only 'mine' a certain number of planets via a skill, while you can anchor as many poses as you want. limit the number of poses, then you have more territory breakups. More groups to fight. More flexing in hte market. More reasons for traders to pay attention to null sec. Without guarentee ways to keep indy stuff safe, i highly doubt anyone is going to put a lot of effort into increasing indy in null sec.

More alt/holding corps? Sounds like fun.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1017 - 2012-06-25 07:44:12 UTC
ReiAnn wrote:
its silly that I can only 'mine' a certain number of planets via a skill, while you can anchor as many poses as you want. limit the number of poses, then you have more territory breakups. More groups to fight. More flexing in hte market. More reasons for traders to pay attention to null sec. Without guarentee ways to keep indy stuff safe, i highly doubt anyone is going to put a lot of effort into increasing indy in null sec.

"Hm. We need another research POS, but we're all out of POS slots. I guess we'll have to make bat country 2: the pos edition!"

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1018 - 2012-06-25 07:47:04 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
ReiAnn wrote:
its silly that I can only 'mine' a certain number of planets via a skill, while you can anchor as many poses as you want. limit the number of poses, then you have more territory breakups. More groups to fight. More flexing in hte market. More reasons for traders to pay attention to null sec. Without guarentee ways to keep indy stuff safe, i highly doubt anyone is going to put a lot of effort into increasing indy in null sec.

"Hm. We need another research POS, but we're all out of POS slots. I guess we'll have to make bat country 2: the pos edition!"

Bat Country: The Third

Why do people never think these through?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1019 - 2012-06-25 07:58:54 UTC
They don't think like people who are out to utilize the system to its fullest potential. It's sometimes a bit :shobon: to watch them make an idea and get all hopeful and :unsmith:, only to get shot down and go all :smith: about it. :shobon:

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1020 - 2012-06-25 09:01:41 UTC
ReiAnn wrote:
Nerfing high sec is only going to force people out of game. You can't make people who don't want to deal with the petty bullshit deal with the petty buillshit. They are just going to quit the game. No people, no money for ccp, ccp culls its staff yet again. Not enough staff, no new content.

Null sec is entrneched with corps/alliances with more players than any new corp can even recruit and more isk than anyone can spend. If you want to make null sec more interesting, you have to break up those mega alliances. Maybe even give high sec a way to provide new corps with the ability to build up enough to start taking minor sov.

~~last minute thought~~

its silly that I can only 'mine' a certain number of planets via a skill, while you can anchor as many poses as you want. limit the number of poses, then you have more territory breakups. More groups to fight. More flexing in hte market. More reasons for traders to pay attention to null sec. Without guarentee ways to keep indy stuff safe, i highly doubt anyone is going to put a lot of effort into increasing indy in null sec.



Could have sworn they said that about PoCos.......