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Making nullsec vibrant again

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Author
Enkill Eridos
Draconian Enforcers Available To Hire
ORPHANS OF EVE 2
#821 - 2012-06-22 00:16:07 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
i'm glad that a member of eve university who is learning how to play in hisec is here to set us straight

Aren't they also messing around in fountain with TEST?



They also mess around in other regions as well. It is really funny because on comms it is usually a joke in most alliances I have been in that an Eve Uni fleet is around. We better get in our frigate popping canes.

Are you a miner/mission runner that is tired of being ganked? Do you want to play EVE and never PVP, but you have a list of players that is stopping you from doing that? Don't QQ pay someone to do your PEW PEW for you. Now offering reasonable rates. EVE mail me for more details.

Incindir Mauser
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#822 - 2012-06-22 00:20:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Incindir Mauser
Enkill Eridos wrote:


Luckily for all you people that want to move to null sec there are people out there that know how to travel in null sec and ways they can avoid gate camps without a local channel. These players are willing to teach you the bare minimum basics you need to know for living in null sec. None of us that live in null sec was given all the tricks, we learned them from our own experiences. But the players willing to teach are willing to show what they were shown. You can't be spoon fed everything eventually you are going to have to learn new tactics and tricks on your own.



Not going to re-quote all that. But I do want to continue this thread of discussion.

Being a newbish scrub at less than a year in this game I'll expound a bit on where I was going with "Kill local, and nerf gate camps." For all I know I probably have my head screwed into my arse.


Here's how I'd change it if I had the powers of Mittens the Man-God-Child.

For a person flying solo from system to system the gate should hurl your metal encrusted goo-bag in the general direction of the next one and you should pop up somewhere in the vicinity of the edge of your destination system. Goodbye lame gate cloak. Goodbye pirate blat camps F1'ing their way to buckets of tears. Warping to a gate should still be a risk necessitating discriminating use of d-scan/probes. Fleets would be massive enough to be flung from gate to gate pretty much in cohesion as they are now. Oh yeah while I'm at it, Warp to Zero and Jump needs to go.

Local needs to die. Always knowing who is in the system with you is such a lame-duck. Unless you are a mental defective and start talking in local your mugshot should never pop up automatically. I say let the miners squirm and the pirates work a bit to find hulls to perforate. In the vastness of outer space one would think that you could move about somewhat anonymously without a chat channel ratting you out where ever you go. Wanna know who and what is around you? D-scan. Use it.

CCP pretty much needs to put in cheap micro-POS's that someone can pack in a badger and set up pretty much anywhere, stick two or three ships in, hold a few hundred thousand m3 in item storage and if it get's flattened you're not out much ISK. None of this POS shield and fuel cubes, stront nonsense. Go green and make'em solar powered. Log off inside them and they cloak. Log on and they decloak. Leave it parked outside and dock up at an NPC station for long enough... and it's finders keepers. Get some buddies together and make your own little complex out in some frozen armpit of Low or Null. If we're playing in a sandbox I don't see why I takes 100 people to build a sandcastle. NPC pirates don't seem to have problems setting up bordellos and opium dens out in the middle of deadspace which are then riddled with bullets and laser beams. I want to be able to do the same, and then go wreck someone else's space ant-farm should I feel like it.

Point is there's lots of ways CCP could make Null more attractive to players in general, without taking an ugly stick to Hi-sec. They've just got too much institutionalized inertia and they keep thinking the same way. When all you have is a hammer every problem looks like a nail.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#823 - 2012-06-22 00:25:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Incindir Mauser wrote:

Point is there's lots of ways CCP could make Null more attractive to players in genera
How does setting null to easy mode for incompetent/inexperienced gankers make 0.0 more appealing to actually live in?

lol @ fuelless structure spamming
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#824 - 2012-06-22 00:28:43 UTC
Enkill Eridos wrote:
Because honestly solo play was never made in eve to be able to beat group play. It's the way it is and the way I think null should be. We are playing an mmo and one about space battles. I haven't read or seen a sci fi series that one single person was able to beat everything. Even Ellen Ripley had help.

If I was that naive and thought a FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE in null sec was possible with no possibility of being bashed..Well I would be a very big fracking moron now wouldn't I?

My post wasn't addressed at you, unless that Uni guy is your alt?

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#825 - 2012-06-22 00:30:31 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Incindir Mauser wrote:

Point is there's lots of ways CCP could make Null more attractive to players in genera
How does setting null to easy mode for incompetent/inexperienced gankers make 0.0 more appealing to actually live in?

lol @ fuelless structure spamming


Nic, I like to think that I came up with at least a few ideas such as the un****ing of Null Sec Industry and a tax in CONCORD protected systems but failed to get any feedback from you or anyone else on your side of this issue. I would like to read that feedback. Can you throw me a bone over here? P

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#826 - 2012-06-22 00:36:04 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Incindir Mauser wrote:

Point is there's lots of ways CCP could make Null more attractive to players in genera
How does setting null to easy mode for incompetent/inexperienced gankers make 0.0 more appealing to actually live in?

lol @ fuelless structure spamming


Nic, I like to think that I came up with at least a few ideas such as the un****ing of Null Sec Industry and a tax in CONCORD protected systems but failed to get any feedback from you or anyone else on your side of this issue. I would like to read that feedback. Can you throw me a bone over here? P

Is this a market tax or something like increasing of manufacturing fees?
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#827 - 2012-06-22 00:39:07 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Is this a market tax or something like increasing of manufacturing fees?


It's a tax on the combined estimated market value generated by the UI. No more hoarding and stockpiling. It is also optional but if you don't pay it, CONCORD will take no action on you behalf until your back taxes are paid.

Its just an idea I was thinking about and the economy can always use more sinks.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Incindir Mauser
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#828 - 2012-06-22 00:45:28 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Incindir Mauser wrote:

Point is there's lots of ways CCP could make Null more attractive to players in genera
How does setting null to easy mode for incompetent/inexperienced gankers make 0.0 more appealing to actually live in?

lol @ fuelless structure spamming


Because, sir.

Then you in your infinite wisdom can come and school them proper.

Yes. Fuel-less micro-POSes are funny. Funny when you make them explode. And because they're accessible enough to newer lower SP players and smaller groups of players just think of all the barrels of tears you'll be able to extract when you come and deliver some gunpoint diplomacy.

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#829 - 2012-06-22 00:53:39 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Is this a market tax or something like increasing of manufacturing fees?


It's a tax on the combined estimated market value generated by the UI. No more hoarding and stockpiling. It is also optional but if you don't pay it, CONCORD will take no action on you behalf until your back taxes are paid.

Its just an idea I was thinking about and the economy can always use more sinks.

A nerf to collectors? Basically anyone with highsec assets amounting to any decent value would find it hard to dwell in highsec when "paying customers" have essentially free reign to engage them.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#830 - 2012-06-22 01:03:46 UTC
The story of this thread is everyone wants all of Eve to be like where they live.

Also, i am so happy to be in wh space now, as it seems to be the least messed up part of Eve.

Lastly, I have mudbutt right now and i am miserable Sad

No trolling please

Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#831 - 2012-06-22 01:08:07 UTC
Adelphie wrote:
From a purely selfish point of view I would like to see this trend reverse and see null becoming as vibrant as it has been in days gone by so I've got stuff to shoot.


There are a few reasons that I can see for a reduction of traffic, mainly caused by a lack of migration of players into null:

- High barriers to entry for newer players/corps/alliances to move to null
- Not enough of a carrot to entice players away from highsec
- A lack of differentiated content in null vs. other areas of space.
- Current alliances entrenched in their space.
- Not enough reason for industrialists to be in null



My main reasons for not moving to null are that people like you try to shoot at me, if you manage to destroy my ship you then try to pod me, losing implants is no good for the trainingz, replacing implants is expensive. Too expensive. Stop the podding, maybe I'll come visit.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#832 - 2012-06-22 01:14:34 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Is this a market tax or something like increasing of manufacturing fees?


It's a tax on the combined estimated market value generated by the UI. No more hoarding and stockpiling. It is also optional but if you don't pay it, CONCORD will take no action on you behalf until your back taxes are paid.

Its just an idea I was thinking about and the economy can always use more sinks.

A nerf to collectors? Basically anyone with highsec assets amounting to any decent value would find it hard to dwell in highsec when "paying customers" have essentially free reign to engage them.


Not at all. You don't need to keep your collection of Faction Frigates in High Sec. You can of course but are assessed a tax based on the market value of the items - the percentage could be as little as 1-10% or less. That is a detail that I would leave to the Economics Gurus, Additionally, you don't have to pay the tax but then you are not afforded the protection that others have paid for. It could include some kind of flag to indicate that you are not protected or it could be done without any flags. That way others can either see or not see (depending on implementation) who is fair game and who is not.

This allows an increase to bounties in Null Sec so that instead of having to alt in High Sec Level 4s, they can continue to live in Null Sec which, from what I can tell, is all they really want. The two biggest obstacles that I have seen to this, at least to the extent I have been able to ascertain from this particular thread, is that Industry in Null is ****ed and that is something that really surprised me but you bet your ass it needs to be addressed. The other is a lack of income from the things that high sec is able to take for granted,; specifically PvE rewards in Null. Granted the rewards are higher but in the same time that it takes them to run 1 PvE engagement (and apologize that I do not know what form this takes) they could have completed 4-5 Level 4 missions with little to any risk of being jumped, ganked, blobbed, or some other way separated from the life support system of their ship. At which point they need to dock up, reship, refit, wait for jumper, ganker, blob, to leave system so they can finish what they were doing.

I don't think you can make Null Sec more vibrant if the people that live there are unable to live there.

Additionally, I am a high sec mission runner and much of what most of us take for granted is a logistical nightmare for null sec residents. I do not think an additional tax is unreasonable if it means we can all enjoy this great game.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#833 - 2012-06-22 01:32:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Kimmi Chan wrote:

Not at all. You don't need to keep your collection of Faction Frigates in High Sec. You can of course but are assessed a tax based on the market value of the items - the percentage could be as little as 1-10% or less. That is a detail that I would leave to the Economics Gurus, Additionally, you don't have to pay the tax but then you are not afforded the protection that others have paid for. It could include some kind of flag to indicate that you are not protected or it could be done without any flags. That way others can either see or not see (depending on implementation) who is fair game and who is not.

This kind of tax seems like it would do little to dissuade nullsec people from making their isk in highsec. Loading up valuable assets on mains that live outside of high and keeping poor alt characters in highsec for running missions would simply become common practice.
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#834 - 2012-06-22 01:36:41 UTC
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:
My main reasons for not moving to null are that people like you try to shoot at me, if you manage to destroy my ship you then try to pod me, losing implants is no good for the trainingz, replacing implants is expensive. Too expensive. Stop the podding, maybe I'll come visit.


Do you visit lowsec, where there's much less of a threat to your implants?
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#835 - 2012-06-22 01:37:16 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:

Not at all. You don't need to keep your collection of Faction Frigates in High Sec. You can of course but are assessed a tax based on the market value of the items - the percentage could be as little as 1-10% or less. That is a detail that I would leave to the Economics Gurus, Additionally, you don't have to pay the tax but then you are not afforded the protection that others have paid for. It could include some kind of flag to indicate that you are not protected or it could be done without any flags. That way others can either see or not see (depending on implementation) who is fair game and who is not.

This kind of tax seems like it would do little to dissuade nullsec people from making their isk in highsec. Loading up valuable assets on mains that live outside of high and keeping poor alt characters in highsec for running missions would simply become common practice.


If it is only the tax being assessed you are correct. But the tax is used as an ISK sink to fund an increase in the ISK faucet of Null-Sec bounties.

There is no panacea for the problems that the OP is trying to address. It will require a combination of ideas - not just one. Again this is an idea only, something that was bouncing around in my head like a kid with a sugar high.

What other circumstances would need to exist to make this work? Or what other ideas do others have to help Null Sec residents to live in Null Sec and at the same time attract others to join them?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#836 - 2012-06-22 01:40:18 UTC
Incindir Mauser wrote:
[Local needs to die. Always knowing who is in the system with you is such a lame-duck. Unless you are a mental defective and start talking in local your mugshot should never pop up automatically. I say let the miners squirm and the pirates work a bit to find hulls to perforate. In the vastness of outer space one would think that you could move about somewhat anonymously without a chat channel ratting you out where ever you go. Wanna know who and what is around you? D-scan. Use it.


can we also have the ability to close down gates at will?

i mean if you want delayed local, go to a wormhole

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Incindir Mauser
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#837 - 2012-06-22 01:41:53 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Incindir Mauser wrote:
[Local needs to die. Always knowing who is in the system with you is such a lame-duck. Unless you are a mental defective and start talking in local your mugshot should never pop up automatically. I say let the miners squirm and the pirates work a bit to find hulls to perforate. In the vastness of outer space one would think that you could move about somewhat anonymously without a chat channel ratting you out where ever you go. Wanna know who and what is around you? D-scan. Use it.


can we also have the ability to close down gates at will?

i mean if you want delayed local, go to a wormhole


Entertaining possibility.

Care to expound on the idea?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#838 - 2012-06-22 01:46:49 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:

Not at all. You don't need to keep your collection of Faction Frigates in High Sec. You can of course but are assessed a tax based on the market value of the items - the percentage could be as little as 1-10% or less. That is a detail that I would leave to the Economics Gurus, Additionally, you don't have to pay the tax but then you are not afforded the protection that others have paid for. It could include some kind of flag to indicate that you are not protected or it could be done without any flags. That way others can either see or not see (depending on implementation) who is fair game and who is not.

This kind of tax seems like it would do little to dissuade nullsec people from making their isk in highsec. Loading up valuable assets on mains that live outside of high and keeping poor alt characters in highsec for running missions would simply become common practice.


If it is only the tax being assessed you are correct. But the tax is used as an ISK sink to fund an increase in the ISK faucet of Null-Sec bounties.

There is no panacea for the problems that the OP is trying to address. It will require a combination of ideas - not just one. Again this is an idea only, something that was bouncing around in my head like a kid with a sugar high.

What other circumstances would need to exist to make this work? Or what other ideas do others have to help Null Sec residents to live in Null Sec and at the same time attract others to join them?

It again comes to the point of people parking characters outside of highsec to hold assets while continuing to to make isk in highsec. This isn't just nullsec residents, but also highsec residents to avoid paying taxes for themselves. If this is the isk you are funneling to null directly then I see it being minimized greatly.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#839 - 2012-06-22 01:49:21 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:

Not at all. You don't need to keep your collection of Faction Frigates in High Sec. You can of course but are assessed a tax based on the market value of the items - the percentage could be as little as 1-10% or less. That is a detail that I would leave to the Economics Gurus, Additionally, you don't have to pay the tax but then you are not afforded the protection that others have paid for. It could include some kind of flag to indicate that you are not protected or it could be done without any flags. That way others can either see or not see (depending on implementation) who is fair game and who is not.

This kind of tax seems like it would do little to dissuade nullsec people from making their isk in highsec. Loading up valuable assets on mains that live outside of high and keeping poor alt characters in highsec for running missions would simply become common practice.


If it is only the tax being assessed you are correct. But the tax is used as an ISK sink to fund an increase in the ISK faucet of Null-Sec bounties.

There is no panacea for the problems that the OP is trying to address. It will require a combination of ideas - not just one. Again this is an idea only, something that was bouncing around in my head like a kid with a sugar high.

What other circumstances would need to exist to make this work? Or what other ideas do others have to help Null Sec residents to live in Null Sec and at the same time attract others to join them?

It again comes to the point of people parking characters outside of highsec to hold assets while continuing to to make isk in highsec. This isn't just nullsec residents, but also highsec residents to avoid paying taxes for themselves. If this is the isk you are funneling to null directly then I see it being minimized greatly.


That may be true but there are others who are so risk averse that they would not set foot in low-sec or null for any reason whatsoever. Not even if there was a savings to be had by doing so. From my own point of view, I would just pay the tax and go about my merry way.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#840 - 2012-06-22 01:50:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Incindir Mauser wrote:
Entertaining possibility.

Care to expound on the idea?


in w-space you can collapse wormholes that have Bad People on the other side, somebody can't light a cyno on top of you and drop supercaps and you generally have to probe targets down rather than simply ping-ponging between anoms until you find something to kill

oh and you can't simply find a w-space system with NPC kills by clicking on the map

so taking away local in nullsec to "make it more like wormholes" is goddamn dumb idea

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration