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Making nullsec vibrant again

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#61 - 2012-06-20 09:53:21 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
nuke hisec incursions, make it exclusive to lowsec

done, more people leave hisec, even if it's just daytrips to lowsec


Won't happen. Not even if hell froze to Anctartica levels.


so you're saying that hisec incursion runners are irrationally risk averse


I am saying that:

1) as you well know they were in for the ISK. Remove pimpmobile efficiency so ISK / hour plummets and they stop doing incursions at all. Oh wait, they already stopped doing them even in hi sec that allows those pimpmobiles, once the ISK / hour stopped being so insane. So imagine how many you'll get in low / null.

2) Incursions are to come extract empire people off their planets. Quite odd to move them away from the place where they were set up to go hit.

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Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2012-06-20 10:02:10 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
1) as you well know they were in for the ISK. Remove pimpmobile efficiency so ISK / hour plummets and they stop doing incursions at all. Oh wait, they already stopped doing them even in hi sec that allows those pimpmobiles, once the ISK / hour stopped being so insane. So imagine how many you'll get in low / null.

2) Incursions are to come extract empire people off their planets. Quite odd to move them away from the place where they were set up to go hit.


1) You don't need pimped out faction battleships to run incursions. CFC incursion runners did just fine (120m/hr) with Zealot/Guardian fleets.

2) Lowsec is empire space

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2012-06-20 10:04:31 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Because you REALLY were after industrialists only, eh?

If nullsec was made much better for industry, we would be.

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Oh wait I have been there multiple times in multiple corps and alliances (I have a good number of accounts) and the thing all had in common was a general despise for industrialists, seen as "alt worthy, and we already have our industry and research alts and no way we'll let you use the corp POS, else you steal".

I guess the corps and alliances you've been in have been more on the "we're hardcore PVPers" side than the well-rounded side, then. Sucks to be you.

As for the "use the corp POS" ... you know that's a direct result of game mechanics, yes? Put a lot of resources in a public place, and allow many people access to it, someone will steal it. Now, if CCP made POSes which could be setup by individuals, for their personal use (or with the possibility of granting access to specific people (no, not through standings, an actual access list)), you'd see less of this protectionism, because it wouldn't be needed.

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Also, 0.0 is paradise for subsidized / reimbursed PvPers, they really find their thing (in my case it was small roam, for others it's blobs, each his taste). But if you are not one of them, there's really little in for you. I mean, even the few infrastructures that could be put up, aren't. So if you are not a ship PvPer you indeed find only the hardship and little of the rewards. Only stuff I found to be as good as hi sec was trading in NPC nulll.

What sort of infrastructure are you talking about? Because we've got JBs, we've got tons of stations we've added all over the place, we've got system upgrades everywhere etc for military indexes and such.

Again, if your alliance didn't have this, then you either didn't have time to setup shop properly, the leadership sucked ass or ... well, I guess if the military and industry upgrades don't do it for you, then I guess nullsec just never will live up to your cushy standards, since you've been comforted too much by hisec.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#64 - 2012-06-20 10:14:49 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
1) as you well know they were in for the ISK. Remove pimpmobile efficiency so ISK / hour plummets and they stop doing incursions at all. Oh wait, they already stopped doing them even in hi sec that allows those pimpmobiles, once the ISK / hour stopped being so insane. So imagine how many you'll get in low / null.

2) Incursions are to come extract empire people off their planets. Quite odd to move them away from the place where they were set up to go hit.


1) You don't need pimped out faction battleships to run incursions. CFC incursion runners did just fine (120m/hr) with Zealot/Guardian fleets.

2) Lowsec is empire space


1) I know you don't NEED pimpboats but YOU want to bring incursions out of hi sec, which as I said will not entice them to move there at all. They are not even enticed to do incursions in hi sec as is, figures outside it.

2) Where shall a zerg overlord go take people and spread his propaganda: in the densely inhabitated systems full of people and communication media, or in a desert with 4 cats that don't give a crap?

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2012-06-20 10:17:22 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
1) I know you don't NEED pimpboats but YOU want to bring incursions out of hi sec, which as I said will not entice them to move there at all. They are not even enticed to do incursions in hi sec as is, figures outside it.

Not to worry, they've more or less stopped being run in its entirety because they weren't frothing forth ISK anymore. So much for their initial "YOU SHALL NOT NERF INCURSIONS THEY ARE SO SOCIAL WE LOVE HOW SOCIAL WE ARE WHILE MAKING ISK" defense.

Oh well so sad. vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2012-06-20 10:20:03 UTC
Anchorable cyno jammers and interdiction nullifiers. Allow new corps to set up without being curbstomped by supercaps. This way, new corps/alliances can create chokepoints on gates that they can keep a hold of while they get permanent cyno jammers, stations etc. in place.

Dodixie > Hek
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#67 - 2012-06-20 10:20:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Lord Zim wrote:

If nullsec was made much better for industry, we would be.

As for the "use the corp POS" ... you know that's a direct result of game mechanics, yes? Put a lot of resources in a public place, and allow many people access to it, someone will steal it. Now, if CCP made POSes which could be setup by individuals, for their personal use (or with the possibility of granting access to specific people (no, not through standings, an actual access list)), you'd see less of this protectionism, because it wouldn't be needed.


Then put all those fresh forces you got to work. Instead of breaking the balls to hi seccers or others who don't care about the far west, break the CCP balls so that they put in a minimum of living standards. And not just for the NAPsters but for every 0.0 citizens.



Lord Zim wrote:

What sort of infrastructure are you talking about? Because we've got JBs, we've got tons of stations we've added all over the place, we've got system upgrades everywhere etc for military indexes and such.


Again, if your alliance didn't have this, then you either didn't have time to setup shop properly, the leadership sucked ass or ... well, I guess if the military and industry upgrades don't do it for you, then I guess nullsec just never will live up to your cushy standards, since you've been comforted too much by hisec.


Sorry, not everybody are in for the lame ass blobbers with all the comfortabilities. Smaller alliances or corps have an hard time to get all the stuff you pull out without thinking. Better to join a low sec corp and use the facilities in there than to be a blobber.

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2012-06-20 10:26:37 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Then put all those fresh forces you got to work. Instead of breaking the balls to hi seccers or others who don't care about the far west, break the CCP balls so that they put in a minimum of living standards. And not just for the NAPsters but for every 0.0 citizens.

I'm going to go with "nah, I'll do both".

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Sorry, not everybody are in for the lame ass blobbers with all the comfortabilities. Smaller alliances or corps have an hard time to get all the stuff you pull out without thinking. Better to join a low sec corp and use the facilities in there than to be a blobber.

So uh, you've just been in lowsec corps/alliances, and you're making comments about how it is to live in nullsec?

I see.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Russell Casey
Doomheim
#69 - 2012-06-20 10:27:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Russell Casey
Lord Zim wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
1) I know you don't NEED pimpboats but YOU want to bring incursions out of hi sec, which as I said will not entice them to move there at all. They are not even enticed to do incursions in hi sec as is, figures outside it.

Not to worry, they've more or less stopped being run in its entirety because they weren't frothing forth ISK anymore. So much for their initial "YOU SHALL NOT NERF INCURSIONS THEY ARE SO SOCIAL WE LOVE HOW SOCIAL WE ARE WHILE MAKING ISK" defense.

Oh well so sad. vOv


When was EVE ever not social?

Also, Incursions left a bad taste in my mouth, too similar to the themepark MMOs I came here to get away from.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2012-06-20 10:28:21 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Anchorable cyno jammers and interdiction nullifiers. Allow new corps to set up without being curbstomped by supercaps. This way, new corps/alliances can create chokepoints on gates that they can keep a hold of while they get permanent cyno jammers, stations etc. in place.

Pretty certain "supercaps" isn't the major problem of "new corps".

And there are anchorable cyno jammers in the game already. They just require SOV first.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-06-20 10:49:11 UTC
Nuke everything in null and start over.

It's the only way to be sure.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#72 - 2012-06-20 11:17:45 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I have this great news for you: null sec is the apex of player generated, emergent content.

Make your player generated content less sh!tty and maybe you'll convince someone to go there.


This is a huge part of the puzzle, but there is also the poor state of industry locking out an entire class of players.

To make null sec more attractive, here are some ideas:

  • Move mining to grav sites
  • Improve the performance of POS refineries
  • Nerf NPC/station refineries
  • Reshuffle distribution of ore: tighter banding to hi/low/null
  • Remove the sheer volume of structure bashing required for sov (I would remove sov altogether)
  • Make logistics harder: ammo should be ammo sized, not wafer biscuit sized, modules should be bigger than the sum of the volumes of the minerals that make them


The changes to POS refineries and station refineries would ensure that the player-driven economy becomes more player-driven. If station refining takes an hour to reprocess a Raven,

The changes to module and item size would ensure that having production close to consumption is important: if it takes forty times as many freighter loads of junk to build your super capitals, you want the source to be very close by! No more mass buying of 425mm rail guns in Jita to reprocess them in Branch. Instead it will make more economic sense to get more miners into Branch and actually defend them, or move the manufacturing base to low sec where you build carriers which you fly to null sec to break down for parts to make the supercapitals.

Just the rabid intellectual onanism of a hisec care bear.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-06-20 11:22:40 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
  • Improve the performance of POS refineries
    • They can't just "improve the performance of POS refineries", they would have to drastically revamp them from the cockstabby state they're in now. Have you tried using one with, say, 10-15 hulks?

    Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

    RIP Vile Rat
    pussnheels
    Viziam
    #74 - 2012-06-20 11:33:38 UTC
    If you want to revive null sec you need a reason to compete and fight over resources that is the solution
    In my opinion there are 2 things that need change

    First moongoo , make it depletable after x months so alliances need to protect their income , sure t2 ships and items will go up in price but they mostly overrated anyway and too specilzed to be very common and make moongoo extraction more pi like it will givethe dust bunnies something to fight over
    Sure all you nullsecdwellers will flame this idea but just you FO with your whines it is about time you lazy do no gooders learn that ittakes time and effort to keep their sandcastles intact

    Second thing that needs to look at is. Industry in null sec
    Even a slight buff in production research and refining and a counter to afk cloaking will go along way to help alliances to a second major source of income

    I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
    Lord Zim
    Gallente Federation
    #75 - 2012-06-20 11:42:45 UTC
    pussnheels wrote:
    First moongoo , make it depletable after x months so alliances need to protect their income

    1) Have you ever scanned a whole region? Even once?
    2) I hope you like high prices on your T2 stuff.

    pussnheels wrote:
    sure t2 ships and items will go up in price but they mostly overrated anyway and too specilzed to be very common

    Which eve are you playing? Because where I'm at, T2 is pretty much the only way to roll

    pussnheels wrote:
    Sure all you nullsecdwellers will flame this idea but just you FO with your whines it is about time you lazy do no gooders learn that ittakes time and effort to keep their sandcastles intact

    Heh. Implying living in nullsec is a dance on a bed of no effort. That's precious.

    Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

    RIP Vile Rat
    Weaselior
    GoonWaffe
    Goonswarm Federation
    #76 - 2012-06-20 11:53:28 UTC
    As a highsec publord with no friends and no actual idea about living in null, here are my solutions to fixing null:

    1)make it more like highsec
    2)make it so that people aren't allowed to be friends

    that is all thanks

    Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
    Kimmi Chan
    Tastes Like Purple
    #77 - 2012-06-20 11:53:46 UTC
    Forgive my ignorance of null sec and jump freighters and feel free to correct me but as I understand the current mechanics a jump freighter jumps from Null Sec to Low Sec and then gate jumps the rest of the way to a market hub to sell commodities like Technetium. My idea is based on this assumption. Again, if it is incorrect please let me know.

    Why not allow a jump freighter to only jump within Null and then gate jump through several systems in Low Sec before getting to High Sec and the market hub?

    It could potentially increase the population in Low Sec by giving PvP enthusiasts and pirates nice targets to shoot at. It could give Null Sec residents something to do by forcing them to put together escort fleets (likely Drakes and Logistics) for their Freighter Convoys - Small gang PvP in Low Sec - Fun for Null Sec residents.

    Just theorycrafting out loud here.

    "Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

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    Weaselior
    GoonWaffe
    Goonswarm Federation
    #78 - 2012-06-20 11:54:28 UTC
    i also enjoy that morons keep thinking "moon moving" would nerf goonswarm

    i have news for you guys, guess who the only alliance is that has enough bodies to throw at the problem

    Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
    Arrgthepirate
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #79 - 2012-06-20 12:24:37 UTC
    All I got from this is "I'm too bad of a player to join even a terrible 0.0 renter corp"
    masternerdguy
    Doomheim
    #80 - 2012-06-20 12:29:37 UTC
    Kimmi Chan wrote:
    Forgive my ignorance of null sec and jump freighters and feel free to correct me but as I understand the current mechanics a jump freighter jumps from Null Sec to Low Sec and then gate jumps the rest of the way to a market hub to sell commodities like Technetium. My idea is based on this assumption. Again, if it is incorrect please let me know.

    Why not allow a jump freighter to only jump within Null and then gate jump through several systems in Low Sec before getting to High Sec and the market hub?

    It could potentially increase the population in Low Sec by giving PvP enthusiasts and pirates nice targets to shoot at. It could give Null Sec residents something to do by forcing them to put together escort fleets (likely Drakes and Logistics) for their Freighter Convoys - Small gang PvP in Low Sec - Fun for Null Sec residents.

    Just theorycrafting out loud here.


    I personally would love to see a JF nerf. In fact, jump logistics needs to get out of my EVE.

    Jump drives have done more to ruin lo/nullsec industrialists than anything else.

    Things are only impossible until they are not.