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Question to the pve community
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Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#81 - 2012-06-19 15:43:39 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Squrriel Insurgent wrote:
..........

So please help me understand, in short you came to a strictly pvp driven game and ask to make it safe for you to pve mine with no worries of any negative repercussions?


Please state your source for Eve being a strictly pvp game.


My source.


Just like to point out......

PI has no PvP..

Manufacturing..

Researching..

Skilling..

Spinning Barbie with Nex outfits...

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#82 - 2012-06-19 15:43:48 UTC
THE L0CK wrote:
Zyress wrote:


rabble rabble rabble


rabble rabble rabble


And the whole time you're busy setting traps and not guarding them lies the opportunity for someone else to come along and take your stuff. There are many things you can do in life without actually being there, the problem is if you'r not there, bad things can and often do happen. Kinda why large autonomous plants always have plant supervisors.

So close...
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#83 - 2012-06-19 15:48:29 UTC
THE L0CK wrote:
Zyress wrote:


And once the hunter aims and pulls the trigger the riffle's firing pin strikes the bullet which ignites the gunpowder which propels the bullet down the barrel and through the air till it hits the animal Once the bullet leaves the barrel if the hunter were very quick he could go home and watch the price is right, the function of killing is moved to the bullet, the hunter's fuction is now watching TV. The amount of time that passes between the action that instigates the kill or trap is inmaterial. If a gangster throws someone in a car cruncher and hits a button then drives home, did he murder the person or was that the funtion of the car cruncher while his function was driving his car? You have to take responsibility for the consequences of your actions.



Grasping at air are we? Lol

A bullet leaves the chamber of a rifle at an average of about 1200 m/s. If the target is a kilometer downrange the hunter would have less than one second to switch actions.

Also, contrary to what movies show you, car crushers come equip with safety features that require an operator to stand present while the car is being crushed to prevent any action like the operator leaving the booth and accidentally falling in.

Surely you can do better than this can't you? The concept of the action keeps eluding you so I'll give 2 prime example that are in this thread.

Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor wrote:
When mining, I'm using "2 Hulks and an Orca". Every possible skill is on 5, so things happen rather rapidly. Between dealing with the ore (I don't use Cargohold Exp's so one cycle is all it takes to fill up), keeping an eye on Local and looking for anything nearby to suddenly warp in or decloak, and dealing with warping the Orca to and fro, and changing rocks as they are eaten so quickly, I honestly don't stop moving while mining. Hours at a time.

Squrriel Insurgent referencing another player wrote:

mining in high sec is the easiest way for me to play while doing homework


One of these people are mining and one is doing homework. Can you guess which is which?


They both are, one is just doing it more actively, If I put my supper in the oven and set the timer for 45 mins then go watch TV then I am cooking my dinner and watching tv, heck I may even be doing laundry at the very same time, I can multitask that way.
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#84 - 2012-06-19 15:57:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Zyress
Ituhata Saken wrote:
THE L0CK wrote:
Zyress wrote:


rabble rabble rabble


rabble rabble rabble


And the whole time you're busy setting traps and not guarding them lies the opportunity for someone else to come along and take your stuff. There are many things you can do in life without actually being there, the problem is if you'r not there, bad things can and often do happen. Kinda why large autonomous plants always have plant supervisors.


Inmaterial to the debate, yes bad things can happen but the trapper is still trapping. The trap is a tool he does it with. Or as the old NRA comercial says, Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#85 - 2012-06-19 16:01:02 UTC
Zyress wrote:
THE L0CK wrote:
Zyress wrote:


And once the hunter aims and pulls the trigger the riffle's firing pin strikes the bullet which ignites the gunpowder which propels the bullet down the barrel and through the air till it hits the animal Once the bullet leaves the barrel if the hunter were very quick he could go home and watch the price is right, the function of killing is moved to the bullet, the hunter's fuction is now watching TV. The amount of time that passes between the action that instigates the kill or trap is inmaterial. If a gangster throws someone in a car cruncher and hits a button then drives home, did he murder the person or was that the funtion of the car cruncher while his function was driving his car? You have to take responsibility for the consequences of your actions.



Grasping at air are we? Lol

A bullet leaves the chamber of a rifle at an average of about 1200 m/s. If the target is a kilometer downrange the hunter would have less than one second to switch actions.

Also, contrary to what movies show you, car crushers come equip with safety features that require an operator to stand present while the car is being crushed to prevent any action like the operator leaving the booth and accidentally falling in.

Surely you can do better than this can't you? The concept of the action keeps eluding you so I'll give 2 prime example that are in this thread.

Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor wrote:
When mining, I'm using "2 Hulks and an Orca". Every possible skill is on 5, so things happen rather rapidly. Between dealing with the ore (I don't use Cargohold Exp's so one cycle is all it takes to fill up), keeping an eye on Local and looking for anything nearby to suddenly warp in or decloak, and dealing with warping the Orca to and fro, and changing rocks as they are eaten so quickly, I honestly don't stop moving while mining. Hours at a time.

Squrriel Insurgent referencing another player wrote:

mining in high sec is the easiest way for me to play while doing homework


One of these people are mining and one is doing homework. Can you guess which is which?


They both are, one is just doing it more actively, If I put my supper in the oven and set the timer for 45 mins then go watch TV then I am cooking my dinner and watching tv, heck I may even be doing laundry at the very same time, I can multitask that way.


Unless you have gained some supernatural ability to heat things with your hands the oven is and always will be cooking your dinner. You may prep and arrange the ingredients before hand or add them during the process of cooking.

Now laundry and the tv is the first decent analogy that you have had. TV doesn't not require your hands unless you are a channel surfer so yes you can perform another action such as folding laundry. However, it still does not compare with afk mining. AFK is a general term meaning away from keyboard, also known as not present. If you are away from keyboard or not present, you would find it rather hard to perform the action don't you think? You are present in front of the tv and the laundry, and so you can do both. If you leave the room to go check on your dinner, then your actions change from watching tv and doing laundry (unless you brought your underwear with you) to checking on dinner.

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#86 - 2012-06-19 16:08:24 UTC
THE L0CK wrote:

Unless you have gained some supernatural ability to heat things with your hands the oven is and always will be cooking your dinner. You may prep and arrange the ingredients before hand or add them during the process of cooking.

Now laundry and the tv is the first decent analogy that you have had. TV doesn't not require your hands unless you are a channel surfer so yes you can perform another action such as folding laundry. However, it still does not compare with afk mining. AFK is a general term meaning away from keyboard, also known as not present. If you are away from keyboard or not present, you would find it rather hard to perform the action don't you think? You are present in front of the tv and the laundry, and so you can do both. If you leave the room to go check on your dinner, then your actions change from watching tv and doing laundry (unless you brought your underwear with you) to checking on dinner.



By that argument cooks never cook anything. You're not much for tools are you? And I suppose knives do the slicing and spoons do the laddling. By your definition if you don't do it with your hands then the tool you used did it not you.
Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#87 - 2012-06-19 16:11:56 UTC
Zyress wrote:
Ituhata Saken wrote:
THE L0CK wrote:
Zyress wrote:


rabble rabble rabble


rabble rabble rabble


And the whole time you're busy setting traps and not guarding them lies the opportunity for someone else to come along and take your stuff. There are many things you can do in life without actually being there, the problem is if you'r not there, bad things can and often do happen. Kinda why large autonomous plants always have plant supervisors.


Inmaterial to the debate, yes bad things can happen but the trapper is still trapping. The trap is a tool he does it with. Or as the old NRA comercial says, Guns don't kill people, people kill people.


I've always had an issue with that statement, because the gun is clearly an enabler. It's kinda like saying cars, planes & trains don't make people travel, people do. I guarantee if these modes of transportation weren't around alot less people would decide to travel.

So close...
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#88 - 2012-06-19 16:12:46 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Squrriel Insurgent wrote:
..........

So please help me understand, in short you came to a strictly pvp driven game and ask to make it safe for you to pve mine with no worries of any negative repercussions?


Please state your source for Eve being a strictly pvp game.


My source.


Just like to point out......

PI has no PvP..

Manufacturing..

Researching..

Skilling..

Spinning Barbie with Nex outfits...


Competition over Resource depletion

Slot/Moon competition (also, sales, or stopping someone from selling to you)

Slot/Moon competition

True (except why are you skilling if you're not going to do anything with the skills?)

True

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#89 - 2012-06-19 16:15:31 UTC
Zyress wrote:
THE L0CK wrote:

Unless you have gained some supernatural ability to heat things with your hands the oven is and always will be cooking your dinner. You may prep and arrange the ingredients before hand or add them during the process of cooking.

Now laundry and the tv is the first decent analogy that you have had. TV doesn't not require your hands unless you are a channel surfer so yes you can perform another action such as folding laundry. However, it still does not compare with afk mining. AFK is a general term meaning away from keyboard, also known as not present. If you are away from keyboard or not present, you would find it rather hard to perform the action don't you think? You are present in front of the tv and the laundry, and so you can do both. If you leave the room to go check on your dinner, then your actions change from watching tv and doing laundry (unless you brought your underwear with you) to checking on dinner.



By that argument cooks never cook anything. You're not much for tools are you? And I suppose knives do the slicing and spoons do the laddling. By your definition if you don't do it with your hands then the tool you used did it not you.



Did you forget the actions of the gun already? The knife and the ladle must be held by a person. I use a knife to slice the beef. I use the ladle to stir and check the sauce. When I place the food in the oven, the action of cooking is moved on to the oven and I move on to preparing the next meal. When the oven has completed the cooking, I remove the food, put the finishing touches on it, and send it out to the floor.

I create meals for a living. And yes that is exactly what I have been trying to tell you from the start but so far all that we have accomplished is that you are the king of bad analogies.

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#90 - 2012-06-19 16:16:38 UTC
Ituhata Saken wrote:
Zyress wrote:
Ituhata Saken wrote:
THE L0CK wrote:
Zyress wrote:


rabble rabble rabble


rabble rabble rabble


And the whole time you're busy setting traps and not guarding them lies the opportunity for someone else to come along and take your stuff. There are many things you can do in life without actually being there, the problem is if you'r not there, bad things can and often do happen. Kinda why large autonomous plants always have plant supervisors.


Inmaterial to the debate, yes bad things can happen but the trapper is still trapping. The trap is a tool he does it with. Or as the old NRA comercial says, Guns don't kill people, people kill people.


I've always had an issue with that statement, because the gun is clearly an enabler. It's kinda like saying cars, planes & trains don't make people travel, people do. I guarantee if these modes of transportation weren't around alot less people would decide to travel.


They are tools, aside from accidents, the gun does not fire unless someone pulls the trigger, the car goes no where unless someone drives it, the airplane does not fly unless someone flies it.
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#91 - 2012-06-19 16:19:45 UTC
Zyress wrote:


They are tools, aside from accidents, the gun does not fire unless someone pulls the trigger, the car goes no where unless someone drives it, the airplane does not fly unless someone flies it.



Exactly. A game is not played unless a person is playing it. Now you are catching on.

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?
Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#92 - 2012-06-19 16:20:01 UTC
Zyress wrote:

They are tools, aside from accidents, the gun does not fire unless someone pulls the trigger, the car goes no where unless someone drives it, the airplane does not fly unless someone flies it.


And without those tools people wouldn't do it very often if at all, only the most determined. It's a two way street.

So close...
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#93 - 2012-06-19 16:22:29 UTC
THE L0CK wrote:
Zyress wrote:
THE L0CK wrote:

Unless you have gained some supernatural ability to heat things with your hands the oven is and always will be cooking your dinner. You may prep and arrange the ingredients before hand or add them during the process of cooking.

Now laundry and the tv is the first decent analogy that you have had. TV doesn't not require your hands unless you are a channel surfer so yes you can perform another action such as folding laundry. However, it still does not compare with afk mining. AFK is a general term meaning away from keyboard, also known as not present. If you are away from keyboard or not present, you would find it rather hard to perform the action don't you think? You are present in front of the tv and the laundry, and so you can do both. If you leave the room to go check on your dinner, then your actions change from watching tv and doing laundry (unless you brought your underwear with you) to checking on dinner.



By that argument cooks never cook anything. You're not much for tools are you? And I suppose knives do the slicing and spoons do the laddling. By your definition if you don't do it with your hands then the tool you used did it not you.



Did you forget the actions of the gun already? The knife and the ladle must be held by a person. I use a knife to slice the beef. I use the ladle to stir and check the sauce. When I place the food in the oven, the action of cooking is moved on to the oven and I move on to preparing the next meal. When the oven has completed the cooking, I remove the food, put the finishing touches on it, and send it out to the floor.

I create meals for a living. And yes that is exactly what I have been trying to tell you from the start but so far all that we have accomplished is that you are the king of bad analogies.


But no part of you scoops the sauce and no part of you severs the meat, you took an action, with your hand, using a tool which resulted in the meat being sliced and the sauce being ladled, just as the trapper used a tool which he set with his hands to trap the animal.
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#94 - 2012-06-19 16:27:13 UTC
Ituhata Saken wrote:
Zyress wrote:

They are tools, aside from accidents, the gun does not fire unless someone pulls the trigger, the car goes no where unless someone drives it, the airplane does not fly unless someone flies it.


And without those tools people wouldn't do it very often if at all, only the most determined. It's a two way street.

The point is the tool takes no action without human direction given to it. It is inert, unintelligent. My automatic sprinkler system does not water my lawn, I do using my automatic sprinkler system, because 2 months ago I set it to go off on a schedule. I am the responsible party, not the tool.
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#95 - 2012-06-19 16:27:24 UTC
Zyress wrote:
THE L0CK wrote:
Zyress wrote:
THE L0CK wrote:

Unless you have gained some supernatural ability to heat things with your hands the oven is and always will be cooking your dinner. You may prep and arrange the ingredients before hand or add them during the process of cooking.

Now laundry and the tv is the first decent analogy that you have had. TV doesn't not require your hands unless you are a channel surfer so yes you can perform another action such as folding laundry. However, it still does not compare with afk mining. AFK is a general term meaning away from keyboard, also known as not present. If you are away from keyboard or not present, you would find it rather hard to perform the action don't you think? You are present in front of the tv and the laundry, and so you can do both. If you leave the room to go check on your dinner, then your actions change from watching tv and doing laundry (unless you brought your underwear with you) to checking on dinner.



By that argument cooks never cook anything. You're not much for tools are you? And I suppose knives do the slicing and spoons do the laddling. By your definition if you don't do it with your hands then the tool you used did it not you.



Did you forget the actions of the gun already? The knife and the ladle must be held by a person. I use a knife to slice the beef. I use the ladle to stir and check the sauce. When I place the food in the oven, the action of cooking is moved on to the oven and I move on to preparing the next meal. When the oven has completed the cooking, I remove the food, put the finishing touches on it, and send it out to the floor.

I create meals for a living. And yes that is exactly what I have been trying to tell you from the start but so far all that we have accomplished is that you are the king of bad analogies.


But no part of you scoops the sauce and no part of you severs the meat, you took an action, with your hand, using a tool which resulted in the meat being sliced and the sauce being ladled, just as the trapper used a tool which he set with his hands to trap the animal.



I use one hand to slightly pinch the meat. My other hand holds the blade while my arm move slightly back and forth. I am performing an action. When the trap sets the trap, he is performing the action. Afterward, when my food is in the oven and the trapper is at home the action is transferred to either the oven or the trap.

Thank you and please try again.

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?
Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#96 - 2012-06-19 16:32:25 UTC
Zyress wrote:
Ituhata Saken wrote:
Zyress wrote:

They are tools, aside from accidents, the gun does not fire unless someone pulls the trigger, the car goes no where unless someone drives it, the airplane does not fly unless someone flies it.


And without those tools people wouldn't do it very often if at all, only the most determined. It's a two way street.

The point is the tool takes no action without human direction given to it. It is inert, unintelligent. My automatic sprinkler system does not water my lawn, I do using my automatic sprinkler system, because 2 months ago I set it to go off on a schedule. I am the responsible party, not the tool.


But if you had no automatic sprinkler, only a hose or worse a bucket of water, would you water your lawn? P

So close...
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#97 - 2012-06-19 16:33:50 UTC
THE L0CK wrote:
Zyress wrote:
THE L0CK wrote:
Zyress wrote:
THE L0CK wrote:

Unless you have gained some supernatural ability to heat things with your hands the oven is and always will be cooking your dinner. You may prep and arrange the ingredients before hand or add them during the process of cooking.

Now laundry and the tv is the first decent analogy that you have had. TV doesn't not require your hands unless you are a channel surfer so yes you can perform another action such as folding laundry. However, it still does not compare with afk mining. AFK is a general term meaning away from keyboard, also known as not present. If you are away from keyboard or not present, you would find it rather hard to perform the action don't you think? You are present in front of the tv and the laundry, and so you can do both. If you leave the room to go check on your dinner, then your actions change from watching tv and doing laundry (unless you brought your underwear with you) to checking on dinner.



By that argument cooks never cook anything. You're not much for tools are you? And I suppose knives do the slicing and spoons do the laddling. By your definition if you don't do it with your hands then the tool you used did it not you.



Did you forget the actions of the gun already? The knife and the ladle must be held by a person. I use a knife to slice the beef. I use the ladle to stir and check the sauce. When I place the food in the oven, the action of cooking is moved on to the oven and I move on to preparing the next meal. When the oven has completed the cooking, I remove the food, put the finishing touches on it, and send it out to the floor.

I create meals for a living. And yes that is exactly what I have been trying to tell you from the start but so far all that we have accomplished is that you are the king of bad analogies.


But no part of you scoops the sauce and no part of you severs the meat, you took an action, with your hand, using a tool which resulted in the meat being sliced and the sauce being ladled, just as the trapper used a tool which he set with his hands to trap the animal.



I use one hand to slightly pinch the meat. My other hand holds the blade while my arm move slightly back and forth. I am performing an action. When the trap sets the trap, he is performing the action. Afterward, when my food is in the oven and the trapper is at home the action is transferred to either the oven or the trap.

Thank you and please try again.


Ok apparently not all humans use tools, your tools operate autonomously
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#98 - 2012-06-19 16:34:59 UTC
Ituhata Saken wrote:
Zyress wrote:
Ituhata Saken wrote:
Zyress wrote:

They are tools, aside from accidents, the gun does not fire unless someone pulls the trigger, the car goes no where unless someone drives it, the airplane does not fly unless someone flies it.


And without those tools people wouldn't do it very often if at all, only the most determined. It's a two way street.

The point is the tool takes no action without human direction given to it. It is inert, unintelligent. My automatic sprinkler system does not water my lawn, I do using my automatic sprinkler system, because 2 months ago I set it to go off on a schedule. I am the responsible party, not the tool.


But if you had no automatic sprinkler, only a hose or worse a bucket of water, would you water your lawn? P



I'm not arguing that tools don't make life easier.
Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#99 - 2012-06-19 16:35:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ituhata Saken
Zyress wrote:

Ok apparently not all humans use tools, your tools operate autonomously


They do once you walk away. Lol

Zyress wrote:


I'm not arguing that tools don't make life easier.


I know, but that was my point of my issue with that particular statement from the NRA. We can let that die now since its not really relevant to the argument.

So close...
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#100 - 2012-06-19 16:38:31 UTC
Zyress wrote:


Ok apparently not all humans use tools, your tools operate autonomously


Not all tools are autonomous but I don't see what this has to do with transference of action.

With like your 15th analogy of this thread, with your automatic water sprinkler you set a timer and relegate the action of watering your lawn on to your sprinkler system. You are no longer watering the lawn, a machine is. This gives you the ability to do something else.

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?