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NPC corps should not be safe havens for players

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Donte
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2012-06-18 16:28:58 UTC
i have to say this again.

Its not about forcing people to fight, that is simply impossible.

its about removing unnecessary immunities.

There is no good reason that non-noobcorp NPC corporations should be immune to incoming wardecs.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#22 - 2012-06-18 16:29:29 UTC
Donte wrote:
Morganta wrote:
really this is about 1 player or corp who wants to stalk another player or corp and make their lives miserable

here's a news flash, NPC corps are not safe
please feel free to gank them on the undock if you feel their crimes towards you merit their destruction

but no, nobody is going to give you license to follow some noob indy corp around new eden while you remain 100% safe in a much more powerful war gank fleet.

I'm sure you'd love decs on NPC corps since they can't request allies or set standings or form alliances
win for you eh?


you're right about them not being safe. but they are, without a doubt, the safest. which says a lot. What do they sacrifice for that added safety?

Nothing!


no sacrifice?
so you're saying there's no benefit to being in a player run corp and alliance?
highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2012-06-18 16:33:24 UTC
Instead of letting player corps wardec NPC corps, CCP should add in some storyline with NPc corps vs NPC corps (not FW) and let NPC guys have at it in high sec Lol

FC, what do?
stoicfaux
#24 - 2012-06-18 16:59:06 UTC
Donte wrote:
I think you should be able to wardec NPC corps.

Excellent plan! Plus, anyone who war-decs an NPC corp loses access to that corp's stations (i.e. no med labs, market, fitting, etc.) and since the NPC corps are closely tied to the faction, such war-deccers should lose access to all stations of the corp's parent faction and should be shoot on sight by the Faction's navy and sentry guns.

Additionally, any personal items in such space should be immediately impounded by the NPC faction/corp. Anyone providing assistance to aggressiveness would reactive a standings loss towards the faction and its corps.

Finally, such people would be flashy red to everyone in the faction's NPC corps.


tl;dr If you want to shoot people in NPC corps, then join Faction Warfare. It's what it was designed for.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#25 - 2012-06-18 16:59:27 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Alexa Coates wrote:
Jesus christ, stop trying to MAKE people fight you. Go shoot some other miners you freaks.


This is not a question of making people fight, this is a question of fariness.

Newbies should be protected to a point yes, but players who can affect the game in any way AFTER a newbie period (as in my other post, I suggest 6 months) should be liable to experiance the negative aspects of the game in full. One of those negative aspects is being invovled in a war.

Rookie Corps are not the same as Bittervet NPC Corps.

Make NPC corps dec-vulnerable.

Leave Rookie corps alone.

All semblance of ill-intent vanishes, because a rookie cannot be in an NPC corp without having first joined a player corp to get out of the Rookie corp.

Clear as mud, right?


I can go for that, with the exception that once a player passes a certain point even in the rookie corp (say, 5 or 6 mil SP), they too should become deccable.

If you don't do that, people just stay in rookie corps forever, suffering no real consequence in game other than a few high fees for things (which, after you get to the point where you can do lvl 4 missions, become moot).
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#26 - 2012-06-18 17:03:48 UTC
Donte wrote:
i have to say this again.

Its not about forcing people to fight, that is simply impossible.

its about removing unnecessary immunities.

There is no good reason that non-noobcorp NPC corporations should be immune to incoming wardecs.

But all the NPC corp freighters out of Jita ...

How much does it cost to make a new corp ?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-06-18 17:05:54 UTC
NPC corps have no leadership structure, and therefore will be unable to do what a player corps can do about wardecs.

Also, there are negative consequences to being in an NPC corp, as the normal aggression mechanics do not work the same as they do with a player corp. So in one way the NPC corp makes a player safer, and in another more vulnerable.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#28 - 2012-06-18 17:06:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Jenn aSide wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Alexa Coates wrote:
Jesus christ, stop trying to MAKE people fight you. Go shoot some other miners you freaks.


This is not a question of making people fight, this is a question of fariness.

Newbies should be protected to a point yes, but players who can affect the game in any way AFTER a newbie period (as in my other post, I suggest 6 months) should be liable to experiance the negative aspects of the game in full. One of those negative aspects is being invovled in a war.

Rookie Corps are not the same as Bittervet NPC Corps.

Make NPC corps dec-vulnerable.

Leave Rookie corps alone.

All semblance of ill-intent vanishes, because a rookie cannot be in an NPC corp without having first joined a player corp to get out of the Rookie corp.

Clear as mud, right?


I can go for that, with the exception that once a player passes a certain point even in the rookie corp (say, 5 or 6 mil SP), they too should become deccable.

If you don't do that, people just stay in rookie corps forever, suffering no real consequence in game other than a few high fees for things (which, after you get to the point where you can do lvl 4 missions, become moot).

I agree that those players (above a certain SP limit) don't really belong in rookie corps. But, ostensibly, they could be self-appointed "teachers" who "help" newbies by "indoctrinating them" into Eve.

While I feel the overwhelming majority of such players actually provide misinformation (knowingly or otherwise), I think it would be a disservice to CCP to not allow players an opportunity to interact almost solely with Newbies.

For this reason, I think players should be allowed to stay indefinitely in rookie corps and thus be protected from war declarations.

However, once any player sheds the umbrella protection of a rookie corp for any reason, that player should be subject to war declaration from that point forward.

Barring this, all non-rookie NPC corps should be automatically enrolled in FW, like it or not.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Donte
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2012-06-18 17:06:52 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Donte wrote:
i have to say this again.

Its not about forcing people to fight, that is simply impossible.

its about removing unnecessary immunities.

There is no good reason that non-noobcorp NPC corporations should be immune to incoming wardecs.

But all the NPC corp freighters out of Jita ...

How much does it cost to make a new corp ?


a hell of alot less than a frieghter
Mia Restolo
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2012-06-18 17:15:56 UTC
Donte wrote:

you're right about them not being safe. but they are, without a doubt, the safest. which says a lot. What do they sacrifice for that added safety?



11% tax, being forced to share a corp with lots of random idiots, difficulty finding a group of trustworthy players to tackle challenging or boring content or to pvp with. No ship replacement policies, organized corp activities, or anything else that comes from being in a good corp. Not being able to run a POS, POCO, etc...

If they were wardeccable people would simply make tons of 1 person or alt only corps to avoid people like you who are too chicken to engage a competent opponent. If you really want to shoot them, go ahead and gank them and deal with the consequences.
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
#31 - 2012-06-18 17:16:49 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Alexa Coates wrote:
Jesus christ, stop trying to MAKE people fight you. Go shoot some other miners you freaks.


This is not a question of making people fight, this is a question of fariness.

Newbies should be protected to a point yes, but players who can affect the game in any way AFTER a newbie period (as in my other post, I suggest 6 months) should be liable to experiance the negative aspects of the game in full. One of those negative aspects is being invovled in a war.


You shouldn' t have to be forced to be involved in a War if you don't want to. Players already face the negative prospects the minute they undock. If hisec ganking did not exist I would say yes to Wardecing NPC corps. but as there is a mechanic in game already that allows for blowing greenhorns out of the sky already its a bit OTT.

Remember jut because the galaxy is at war not everyone needs to be in it. Switzerland managed to avoid a pretty big war afterall and they were snadwiched in the middle of it as the **** unflded and somehow managed to avoid engaging in it..............

Yes eve is harsh and so is real life, but hey in real life you can avoid war even when its on your front door step so as to speak
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#32 - 2012-06-18 17:19:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Mia Restolo wrote:
Donte wrote:

you're right about them not being safe. but they are, without a doubt, the safest. which says a lot. What do they sacrifice for that added safety?



11% tax, being forced to share a corp with lots of random idiots, difficulty finding a group of trustworthy players to tackle challenging or boring content or to pvp with. No ship replacement policies, organized corp activities, or anything else that comes from being in a good corp. Not being able to run a POS, POCO, etc...

If they were wardeccable people would simply make tons of 1 person or alt only corps to avoid people like you who are too chicken to engage a competent opponent. If you really want to shoot them, go ahead and gank them and deal with the consequences.

You say that NPC corp members suffer from a lack of organized activities. Why is that? I'm in a corp with a bunch of idiots, in an alliance with a bunch of idiots, in a coalition with a bunch of idiots. That doesn't keep us from organizing. Far from it! If anything, we're overorganized.

One wonders what might motivate the worst corps in Eve to organize themselves better than them being subject to war.

Doesn't one wonder?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#33 - 2012-06-18 17:21:11 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Alexa Coates wrote:
Jesus christ, stop trying to MAKE people fight you. Go shoot some other miners you freaks.


This is not a question of making people fight, this is a question of fariness.

Newbies should be protected to a point yes, but players who can affect the game in any way AFTER a newbie period (as in my other post, I suggest 6 months) should be liable to experiance the negative aspects of the game in full. One of those negative aspects is being invovled in a war.

Rookie Corps are not the same as Bittervet NPC Corps.

Make NPC corps dec-vulnerable.

Leave Rookie corps alone.

All semblance of ill-intent vanishes, because a rookie cannot be in an NPC corp without having first joined a player corp to get out of the Rookie corp.

Clear as mud, right?


I can go for that, with the exception that once a player passes a certain point even in the rookie corp (say, 5 or 6 mil SP), they too should become deccable.

If you don't do that, people just stay in rookie corps forever, suffering no real consequence in game other than a few high fees for things (which, after you get to the point where you can do lvl 4 missions, become moot).

I agree that those players (above a certain SP limit) don't really belong in rookie corps. But, ostensibly, they could be self-appointed "teachers" who "help" newbies by "indoctrinating them" into Eve.

While I feel the overwhelming majority of such players actually provide misinformation (knowingly or otherwise), I think it would be a disservice to CCP to not allow players an opportunity to interact almost solely with Newbies.

For this reason, I think players should be allowed to stay indefinitely in rookie corps and thus be protected from war declarations.

However, once any player sheds the umbrella protection of a rookie corp for any reason, that player should be subject to war declaration from that point forward.

Barring this, all non-rookie NPC corps should be automatically enrolled in FW, like it or not.


That a few people might be doing some form of in-game service is simply not a good reason to allow what amounts to a truck size loop hole.

people in npc corps or anywhere else could help new players along, you don't need corp chat for that.

And saying that people who leave the rookie corp for any reason can be war-dec'd simply means people will NEVER leave the rookie corp is all. So instead of npc corp freighters in jita, it would just be rookie corp frieghters.

Now, one work around to that is extending the trial account training prohibition. If you want to stay in a rookie corp forever, that's fine, but you can't train lots of things like freighters or cynos, nor could you (for example) accept anything higher than a lvl 3 mission.
BearJews
Order of Extrodinary Gentlemen
#34 - 2012-06-18 17:22:56 UTC
Leave it alone? Find other targets? Seriously some people just complain to complain.

The eve universe is HUGe yet you have to complain about NPC corps. lol.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-06-18 17:24:03 UTC
ban npc corps

Replace them with a shared chat channel and make individuals wardecable as 'freelancers'.

good thread by good poster
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2012-06-18 17:25:51 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
One wonders what might motivate the worst corps in Eve to organize themselves better than them being subject to war.

Doesn't one wonder?

Darth,you're the only one that's made good posts throughout this thread. +1

The only thing I'm not for is subjecting new players who are hardly hours old to a wardec. Rest seems alright really.

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2012-06-18 17:26:04 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Donte wrote:
i have to say this again.

Its not about forcing people to fight, that is simply impossible.

its about removing unnecessary immunities.

There is no good reason that non-noobcorp NPC corporations should be immune to incoming wardecs.

But all the NPC corp freighters out of Jita ...

How much does it cost to make a new corp ?

not much but the new wardec system has helped alleviate the decshield problem

all that remains is the npc corp problem
Upde
Upde Harris Industries
#38 - 2012-06-18 17:29:23 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


Now, one work around to that is extending the trial account training prohibition. If you want to stay in a rookie corp forever, that's fine, but you can't train lots of things like freighters or cynos, nor could you (for example) accept anything higher than a lvl 3 mission.



untill you start paying those players monthly subs thatidea is unworkable. providing they are paying their monthly's they can do what ever the **** they choose. If they choose to be in an NPC corp thats their business and they shouldn't be limited from doing and training what ever they want. They acept all the risks as soon as they undock, so if they want to undock in nullsec in a 2 billion ship and get ass raped by an organised nullsec deathsquad then so be it. But saying they should be restricted as to what they can train and what they can do in game when they are fully paid is bullshit
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2012-06-18 17:30:47 UTC
How is NPC corp exactly a problem? And what would you suggest?

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#40 - 2012-06-18 17:31:41 UTC
Upde wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


Now, one work around to that is extending the trial account training prohibition. If you want to stay in a rookie corp forever, that's fine, but you can't train lots of things like freighters or cynos, nor could you (for example) accept anything higher than a lvl 3 mission.



untill you start paying those players monthly subs thatidea is unworkable. providing they are paying their monthly's they can do what ever the **** they choose. If they choose to be in an NPC corp thats their business and they shouldn't be limited from doing and training what ever they want. They acept all the risks as soon as they undock, so if they want to undock in nullsec in a 2 billion ship and get ass raped by an organised nullsec deathsquad then so be it. But saying they should be restricted as to what they can train and what they can do in game when they are fully paid is bullshit

I agree. NPC corp players should not be limited from experiencing the joys of the war declaration content of Eve Online.

I believe that's a /thread.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom