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Yet another inventory post that no one will read

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Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#141 - 2012-06-29 02:23:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Panhead4411
Yet another patch, (after 3 weeks of no Inventory updates) and still lacking basics...

CCP RubberBAND wrote:

Make SHIFT click a toggle: Have an option so that you can enable shift for clicking in the Inventory by default
  • Also will be raised as a very valid point. We are actually working on a feature where you will simply be able to drag out windows from the Index tree, coming soon. No shift click required. The problem with making double click or single click open a new window, is that when is the system supposed to know you want to simply select a tree view line to view its contents (possibly a reverse shift click in this case?)


    • Ummm, ppl don't usually double click the line on the tree just to select it, just go with the double click, it was simple, and different enough to allow users to 'select' something, and 'open' something...without the keyboard....

    CCP RubberBAND wrote:

    Even on TQ my personal experience is looting is instant, both to open windows, clicking loot and the window closing. Changing ships at a POS or otherwise waiting for the tree view load should take no more than a few seconds.

    Well, that jet-can mining Rokh pilot i was trying to steal ore from thanks you for your "working as intended" system...i tried for 10 minutes before i just gave up. I have never had such a hard time stealing ore out of a transfer can...ever. Except maybe the time i had no mouse...okay, its a tie with the hardest time i've had stealing ore.

    *IMPORTANT*
    Separate the "space" window from the "station" window, PLEASE! Why for the love of all that is good can i not close my 'space' window w/o effecting the state of my 'station' window? CCP, please tell me what is your thinking behind this? Because it has been 2 months since this was first asked by those of us lucky enough to Alpha Test on SiSi, and the question has been entirely ignored.


    After the new patch i still have a broken tree view that will not remember its new status when i try to correct it. Currently it ALWAYS opens exactly 3 characters wide...just enough to see there might be something there, but enough to do anything without either finding the thin edge and dragging it wider, or hitting the 'minimize/maximize' button. This first occurred in the previous build after you guys first said the windows would remember their state..but they ended up not.

    The "ship" and "item" windows are now stacked nice and easy like they were before this mess, but the now broken tree on the main window is insanely annoying.

    Also..just some questions about your testing methods...

    How were you guys testing this for those two weeks when there was no replies on any feedback (while this was on SiSi) before you came back and said it was 100% ready to go, if you are looking at these things and agreeing now? (you even came back after those 2 weeks and stated yall had done '2 weeks of in-house tests')

    CCP RubberBAND wrote:

    Persistence: the issue of persistence is complicated and confusing. I agree. The Secondary and Primary window do not behave consistently in ways the user might expect. The primary window being usurped is particularly confusing.
    We (Game of Drones) will discuss this, I agree there is work left to be done here

    At what point did you guys test this and say, hey, that window keeps doing things i didn't want, BRILLIANT, lets keep that feature!
    CCP RubberBAND wrote:

    Tree view is not practical: There are situations where it becomes so long it is unusable or takes too long to use.
    This is really difficult to solve, but we will also discuss this. I will do my best to wrangle the team together to see if we can decide on a course of action. That being said I would again like to just point out that Summer vacation is close and some of the team will be dropping out for a few weeks here and there. We understand though that people need quick easy alternatives to the tree view, shortcut key bindings, buttons, right click options, etc.

    Again, in what part of the testing did you guys go to a POS that had a bagillion modules/arrays and say, "i can't find anything, this is awesome!" Seriously?

    http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
    Needa3
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #142 - 2012-06-29 19:02:37 UTC

    CCP RubberBAND wrote:

    An analogy is that we placed some bricks in a wall, other programmers have now placed their bricks on top of ours. We cannot just remove our bricks and try and shove old ones in.




    The way you guys did it ...

    replace bricks in the wall

    next guy to put a brick on dies cause the wall came tumbling down.

    I wonder if you are indeed reading what you are writing cause basically you wrote:

    - CCP knew the UI was crap
    - CPP still pushed the issue
    - we want to know what you guys really want
    - we are now adding the things you had in the old version but we are doing it in the most idiot way possible.

    BTW, we are still waiting for the answer on WHY this crappy tool was integrated.

    Your post so far have a very dodgy argumentation, all of which has been countered numerous times


    I congratulate you CCP, you are going to need DUST if you manage to survive 'cause the way i see it: your numbers keep going down and the only one to blame is yourself
    Ta-Dam
    #143 - 2012-07-02 09:43:20 UTC
    Needa3 wrote:

    CCP RubberBAND wrote:

    An analogy is that we placed some bricks in a wall, other programmers have now placed their bricks on top of ours. We cannot just remove our bricks and try and shove old ones in.



    BTW, we are still waiting for the answer on WHY this crappy tool was integrated.

    Your post so far have a very dodgy argumentation, all of which has been countered numerous times


    I congratulate you CCP, you are going to need DUST if you manage to survive 'cause the way i see it: your numbers keep going down and the only one to blame is yourself





    They just want to create an userfriendly gaming console crap UI system.
    Dennie Fleetfoot
    DUST University
    #144 - 2012-07-02 10:33:53 UTC
    I've not played much or tested on Sisi because of a combination of RL, too much fun on the Dust beta and to be brutally honest with you CCP folks, the Unifubared has sucked all the joy out of playing Eve at the moment.

    And I was talking to Unifex about it in Newcastle last week. So I know a bit more about the work that's being done on UI. He also knows its far from perfect (EVERYONE at the meet was complaining about it) and that's he's taking a personal interest in UI getting made right. But he encouraged me to try out the latest build on Sisi because he thought progress has been made.

    And he was right, progress has been made. It's still a mess but it's now predicable and getting dangerously close to being usable for the basic stuff.

    Wrecks are still a problem, not disappearing after looting. But they now open in a smaller window rather than the main inventory which is better.

    Unifex admitted that this wasn't ready for release and apologised to those at the meet and nearly all including me accepted it.

    So you're getting there. I'm still not happy about all our feedback on sisi being ignored when we tested it but I'll get over it.

    More work needs to be done to get it to a level paying customers deserve but I'm now more confident you guys finally get what our concerns were about.

    Oh and one thing I learnt at the meet. Unsubbing works. It got their attention.

    CEO Dust University

    CPM 1&2 Member

    www.twitter.com/DennieFleetfoot
    CCP Goliath
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #145 - 2012-07-02 11:27:04 UTC
    Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:
    Unsubbing works. It got their attention.



    To be totally honest, our attention was claimed before the first unsub thread went up. Believe it or not, as you like, but it's the truth.

    CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
    Dennie Fleetfoot
    DUST University
    #146 - 2012-07-02 11:32:18 UTC
    CCP Goliath wrote:
    Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:
    Unsubbing works. It got their attention.



    To be totally honest, our attention was claimed before the first unsub thread went up. Believe it or not, as you like, but it's the truth.


    You know what, after chatting to Jon, I actually do believe you.

    No hard feelings I hope Goliath. I know you guys are on top of this now. Your boss is a cool dude too. Cool

    CEO Dust University

    CPM 1&2 Member

    www.twitter.com/DennieFleetfoot
    Immortalmyth
    Noble Guardians
    #147 - 2012-07-02 23:05:46 UTC
    6 out of 7 accounts are now unsubbed.


    when this one runs out its bye bye goodbye

    congrats ccp u killed eve


    ui wasnt ready you knew this

    we didnt want the ui you knew this

    you wont fix the ui we know this

    so im off to play diablo 3, its been over 5 years i havnt missed a month being subbed. hope your happy ccp
    Vegare
    Bitslix
    Lolsec Fockel
    #148 - 2012-07-03 14:08:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Vegare
    First of all thanks a lot for all the fixes Game of Drones. I've been wrapping my head around the inventory a lot lately and I'm pretty comfortable with it by now thanks to all the improvements. However there are a bunch of remaining issues which I'd like to put emphasis on:


    Quick Access

    1. There is no auto-scrolling in tree view. If you want to drag and drop an item but the destination is not visible on the tree you need to put the item back into the hangar (carefully) and scroll the tree manually. CTR+X is not a solution, drag with left mouse button and use scroll wheel isn't too.

    2. Dropping ships into item hangar doesn't work, and dropping items into ship hangar doesn't work. Dropping items on the Neocom icon doesn't work. Basically if you just want to drop something from a secondary window (your ship's bay probably) into your hangar you need extra steps if there is no primary window open or the tree view doesn't show the right entry for the item you want to move.

    3. If I want to open a specific bay of my carrier and it is not my active ship I cannot do so without using the tree view of any means. I have to find it by its name and expand the respective entry in the tree view. Depending on if I can remember the name of my carrier and the number of ships in my hangar this can be quite frustrating. Read: please bring back context menu entries for specialized bays. This also ties in with the issue mentioned above.

    4. There should be a special case for secondary windows showing ship bays. They need to close and open automatically when switching ships. E.g. if ship bay of active ship is open and active ship is being switched then: close old ship bay and open new one. This would be almost in line with old functionality.


    Consistency

    1. There should be a consistent and easy distinguishable icon for secondary windows on Neocom. The current one doesn't cut it.

    2. Using 'Right click' -> 'Open' on an entry in the tree view should open a secondary window by default. No one ever uses the right click menu to access functionality which is accessible through a single click. This should be consistent for every 'open' context entry in my opinion! If you want to use 'the browser' you use it, if you want to have instant access to a window you use the context menu entries.

    3. 'My Filters' options are static when switching inventory locations. Quick filter entries aren't. Please make it consistent, preferably (imo) make the quick filter behave like the primary filters, which would help a lot when searching for specific items in different locations.

    4. We cannot drag and drop ships from the tree view (into a ship maintenace bay for example). You can do so with containers though which is inconsistent and should be possible.

    5. When switching the active ship using a secondary window the tree view entry 'Ship hangar' in the primary window expands on its own. You have to manually collapse it again.

    6. Secondary windows don't remember the state of their tree views, which would be very useful for carrier/Orca pilots and other use cases.



    On the long term

    • Please give us more item related functionality for items which are stored in containers or ship bays. Contract, repair, repackage, sell, move to hangar and refine. Now this would be a real usability tweak. Ah, and plastic wrap would be awesome!

    • Every browser desperately needs a 'back' button.

    Rommiee
    Mercury Inc.
    #149 - 2012-07-04 12:01:11 UTC
    Its all gone quiet from the Devs recently, not that they ever said a lot tbh.

    Just hope they haven't gone into "we have done a few updates, so now lets keep quiet and hope it all goes away" mode.

    Wouldn't be surprised though
    Copine Callmeknau
    Callmeknau Holdings
    #150 - 2012-07-04 20:14:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Copine Callmeknau
    Wondering if CCP devs realise what an ungodly mess their tree turns into when dealing with a hanger of 30 odd ships, a few capitals, corp hangers, and then multiple station containers as well.

    It's pretty goddamn ugly


    Further points: Ships should be sorted alphabetically by SHIP MODEL not my custom ship name. Utterly ridiculous, takes me an age to find ships in the tree

    Fuel bay/ship maint bay should be put back on the right click menu. idc if it's the same number of clicks now as it was before, it's definitely slower as the procedure is unfamiliar and I need to race the mouse back and forth across the screen where I didn't before.

    Dragging an item to the ship hanger should AUTOMATICALLY place it in my item hanger instead. This is probably the most annoying thing for me. Stop removing functionality

    Selecting modules in my cargohold, realising tree isn't open, clicking expand tree, and having ALL the fracking items I've selected decide to unselect themselves was the stupidest feature in the history of evar.
    So frustrating.


    Immortalmyth wrote:
    6 out of 7 accounts are now unsubbed.


    when this one runs out its bye bye goodbye

    congrats ccp u killed eve


    ui wasnt ready you knew this

    we didnt want the ui you knew this

    you wont fix the ui we know this

    so im off to play diablo 3, its been over 5 years i havnt missed a month being subbed. hope your happy ccp



    I also ragequit multiple imaginary accounts over minor inconveniences

    There should be a rather awesome pic here
    Callidus Dux
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #151 - 2012-07-05 16:24:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Callidus Dux
    To CCP RubberBAND:

    Can you please explain, why do you NOT want to rebuild the old UI with this new code? As it is; I want only the old UI to play EVE. I will not further play AND PAY!!! if I am forced to use this terrible idea of unified inventory. I want the copy of the old UI back. Recreate it and make the behavior the same behavior of the old UI. Nothing less is acceptable for me. Sorry. But thats my point.

    After more than 4 years I do not intent to adapt to this crap Idea of unified windows. NEVER! Because I never wanted a change!!!

    Furthermore I will not longer wait till your Devs are back from holiday. You have to learn to NOT BRING OUT new and absolute not requested or wanted sh!t at a point when all Devs leave the headquarter some days later! Cancel their holidays! It is about your company CCP and your game EVE. You really want to wait till all Devs are back after their undeserved holiday?

    Yeah wait! But after your Dev's holiday a lot of other players might be gone!

    Why do you not bring out your Devs crap ideas AFTER their holidays? When they are back and stay the next few month in company?
    You change things in a way no one ever wants and go to holiday? Thats not intelligent.
    Callidus Dux
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #152 - 2012-07-05 17:04:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Callidus Dux
    CCP RubberBAND wrote:
    Hi all,

    Let me take the time to reply to some of these points specifically

    Makalu Zarya wrote:
    I don't know why i'm posting this since no one important will read it...

    a few quick things i'd like to see brought back.

    1. An altogether option of using the old system. no fixes no anything, just the exact way it used to be.

    seeing how that won't happen here are some ideas.


    That is correct, the old system will not come back. We also cannot support two separately coded Inventory systems. The Unified Inventory is here to stay, but we will continue to work on it so that it is something everyone can be happy with.


    Really? You want to change the UI so that every one is happy again but absolute decline to solve the problem itself? The Problem Ms. RubberBAND is, that WE DO NOT WANT THE WHOLE IDEA OF YOUR CRAP UNIFIED UI!
    You can try to change or improve as much as you want. But I will never accept this crap of UI now! Make the behavior of the new UI like the exact behavior of the old!

    Improving the UI to a point that everyone is happy - without changing? You can spare this work! This wont work!
    Recreate the old UI. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY!
    Myriad Blaze
    Common Sense Ltd
    Nulli Secunda
    #153 - 2012-07-06 19:41:54 UTC
    CCP RubberBAND wrote:
    Hopefully I have not missed anything.

    Actually you missed something ZaBob mentioned and that is one of the main issues (at least for me as a relatively new player):

    ZaBob wrote:
    When you loot a container in space, instead of closing the container, you switch the window to the cargohold. That's always an extra, unwanted window. THAT one, you newly introduced. THAT one, get rid of.

    PLEASE ... if I want to access my cargo while undocked I just click on the cargo button. When I'm clearing after a mission and loot 30+ containers I neither want to have my cargo open all the time nor do I want to see it pop open again and again and again and again ... this is beyond annoying and something that could make me consider giving feedback through account management.


    CCP RubberBAND wrote:
    An analogy is that we placed some bricks in a wall, other programmers have now placed their bricks on top of ours. We cannot just remove our bricks and try and shove old ones in.

    I think I know exactly where you're coming from. Including the reasons you didn't mention. However, to stay in your analogy, sometimes, when the bricks in the lower section of the wall are severely flawed, the whole building will come down if it's solidity is tested under stress.


    Btw, I appreciate, that you came to talk to the people here. Thanks.
    Furian Warrior
    GASFREAKS
    #154 - 2012-07-09 15:48:52 UTC
    crap, crap, crap
    I want my old inventory back.....
    MotherMoon
    Tribal Liberation Force
    Minmatar Republic
    #155 - 2012-07-09 19:11:18 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
    Quote:
    We are discussing being able to open up separate windows with unique tree views, so a corporation window might only have the divisions in the tree view. Please elaborate if I missed the point here somehow.


    YES

    but can I add something to that? Right now if you open a new window, you can then drag that window into a tab by bring it over another window.

    so...

    why not just let me create a new item window tab by dragging an icon from the tree view itself onto the tab area for an item window? I love setting up tabs, and if each tab could have different or filtered tree views that would be badass.



    also on to the bad

    The new UI STILL needs to have neocom shortcuts we can make to bypass the tree view alltogether. Making the tree view the ONLY way in the whole game to open up your ships window or such is kinda silly.

    The tree view is great, in windows becuase it doesn't have 10000 things in it. I have like 30 active ships, what am suppose to do with your mess of a tree view that I can't even use the mouse wheel to scroll up and down in? Please make collapsible sections of ships, and then ship classes.

    The reason I say this is becuase the new UI looks a lot like the market UI. And what made that useful? that everything is tucked away into a folder of some kind. Maybe let us create custom folders in the tree view?


    hmmm while posting I got a new idea.

    1st off remove having a ton of ships populate the tree view. Just have the icon for the ship hanger, active ship, items. That's three easy to see icons that fit.

    Now being able to quickly move items between cargo bays is great.... for some ships, not all 30, so here is my suggestion. Draging a ship to the tree view should add that ship to the tree view. That way the tree only has important stuff you actully want to deal with. Like the favorite folder feature in windows 7.

    Add even more custom shortcuts possibilities to the tree view. When working on a pos maybe I only want a 3 or so icons open. So add a collapsible favorites icon? Whenever your docked or near a pos or whatever it populates the favorites sections with whatever you have assigned.

    Also have a little x next to each icon so it can be removed manually, then add a way to put them back.


    Ok, that's enough for now I'll think about it some more :P

    http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
    MotherMoon
    Tribal Liberation Force
    Minmatar Republic
    #156 - 2012-07-09 19:14:53 UTC
    Callidus Dux wrote:
    To CCP RubberBAND:

    Can you please explain, why do you NOT want to rebuild the old UI with this new code? As it is; I want only the old UI to play EVE. I will not further play AND PAY!!! if I am forced to use this terrible idea of unified inventory. I want the copy of the old UI back. Recreate it and make the behavior the same behavior of the old UI. Nothing less is acceptable for me. Sorry. But thats my point.

    After more than 4 years I do not intent to adapt to this crap Idea of unified windows. NEVER! Because I never wanted a change!!!

    Furthermore I will not longer wait till your Devs are back from holiday. You have to learn to NOT BRING OUT new and absolute not requested or wanted sh!t at a point when all Devs leave the headquarter some days later! Cancel their holidays! It is about your company CCP and your game EVE. You really want to wait till all Devs are back after their undeserved holiday?

    Yeah wait! But after your Dev's holiday a lot of other players might be gone!

    Why do you not bring out your Devs crap ideas AFTER their holidays? When they are back and stay the next few month in company?
    You change things in a way no one ever wants and go to holiday? Thats not intelligent.


    just get lost already, you weren't going to stick around long anyways, eve is always changing. Nothing will stop that, some people left over the neo neocom, go join them. In the last month eve has gained overall 15,000 subs. The new UI is not the terrible piece of junk you say "we" don't want.

    I don't remember who made you a CSM member so you could speak for the whole community.

    But i speak for myself when I say, just leave eve already. your posts are not constructive and are just wasting the poor devs time who had to read your post. It literally is just a rant. congratz.

    http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
    CCP Goliath
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #157 - 2012-07-10 00:02:15 UTC
    As has been mentioned above, things are quiet right now as July is holiday time in Iceland. Pretty much all of the GoD team are on vacation for the moment, but they are going into planning mode on their return and I'm sure they'll be back with updates as soon as there are some to be made.

    CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
    Bubanni
    Primal Instinct Inc.
    The Initiative.
    #158 - 2012-07-10 02:34:09 UTC
    CCP Goliath wrote:
    As has been mentioned above, things are quiet right now as July is holiday time in Iceland. Pretty much all of the GoD team are on vacation for the moment, but they are going into planning mode on their return and I'm sure they'll be back with updates as soon as there are some to be made.


    Can you tell them when they get back, that we are all very disapoint' and that they should put back 'right click' shortcut to the different bays, like fuel, drones, ship maintainance bay and so on... I find myself frustratede everyday when I want to access those bays... when I right click my ship and can't find them anymore... it actually takes longer to open them now unless you already have the inventory window up... ALL THE GOD DAMN TIME! :) sorry for my rage, but the unified inventory was the worste mistake since the Jita uprise... it's not as bad as... but in the annoyance factor... it's extremly high! removeing features, just because added another feature isn't always the best idea and as a minimum, they should proberly have asked us all what we thought about it... besides that, theres some minor tweaks that can make the new inventory fine... it does look neat'er than the old one...


    but what about the ability add shortcuts in the neocom to different inventory areas... like ship hangar? and if you added these shortcuts in the neocom, they would always open in a new window... you know... like before they broke the inventory system to our dislike?

    I also noticed that when I am flying towards a wreck really fast that I want to loot... and I am desperately clicking it... when I fly past the wreck because im too fast... it opens my cargo bay instead of the wreck (because I went out of range I assume...) this is also extremely annoying

    Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
    Salpun
    Global Telstar Federation Offices
    Masters of Flying Objects
    #159 - 2012-07-10 05:20:25 UTC
    CCP Goliath wrote:
    As has been mentioned above, things are quiet right now as July is holiday time in Iceland. Pretty much all of the GoD team are on vacation for the moment, but they are going into planning mode on their return and I'm sure they'll be back with updates as soon as there are some to be made.

    Came expecting a Soundwave post got a Goliath post instead. What?Lol
    Hi GoliathBlink

    The bad thing about having AT this time of year is that most answers given by the studio crew are just repeats of the above.

    If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

    See you around the universe.
    Tony Two Bullet
    Monocle Madness
    #160 - 2012-07-10 12:38:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tony Two Bullet
    CCP Goliath wrote:
    Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:
    Unsubbing works. It got their attention.



    To be totally honest, our attention was claimed before the first unsub thread went up. Believe it or not, as you like, but it's the truth.



    What I want from new inventory system is the Column View that Apple has with the info window at the end:

    http://flylib.com/books/3/324/1/html/2/images/0672327066/graphics/01inf19.jpg;423381

    With a 3D Preview of items right there on the right with tabbed information underneath. I know CCP alluded to something like this, but that would be really awesome :)


    Most of the issues with Unified Inventory are just small annoying things that inhibit productivity and workflow. I want to see some more awesome from it!

    CEO  Monocle Madness ~ Mega-Insane Lotteries for the Mentally Unstable http://www.monoclemadness.com