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We have decent T3 Ships - How about T3 modules ?
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Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#41 - 2012-06-19 11:31:48 UTC
Jafit wrote:
T2 = specialization
T3 = flexibility

T3 is not necessarily better than T2. A T2 module is a better than its T1 counterpart insofar as it's better at the one thing that the module does... But a T3 module doesn't really make sense imo, as the fundamental purpose of a module is to make your ship do one thing better.


Agreed.

I never advocated T3 as a "win button" as some lamebrains here have stated. Flexibility is the thing. It should never be "easy" to get to use or make either.

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#42 - 2012-06-19 11:37:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Jafit wrote:
T2 = specialization
T3 = flexibility

T3 is not necessarily better than T2. A T2 module is a better than its T1 counterpart insofar as it's better at the one thing that the module does... But a T3 module doesn't really make sense imo, as the fundamental purpose of a module is to make your ship do one thing better.



Actually Meta 4 Rolled Tungsten plates are better than T2 but there are also a lot of other mods in same scenario.

But this doesn't explain why so much difference in skills commitment for much less efficiency and why the heck those mods (dead space/officer standards) can't/shouldn't be done by players

brb
Jafit
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-06-19 12:22:45 UTC
Thorn Galen wrote:
Jafit wrote:
T2 = specialization
T3 = flexibility

T3 is not necessarily better than T2. A T2 module is a better than its T1 counterpart insofar as it's better at the one thing that the module does... But a T3 module doesn't really make sense imo, as the fundamental purpose of a module is to make your ship do one thing better.


Agreed.

I never advocated T3 as a "win button" as some lamebrains here have stated. Flexibility is the thing. It should never be "easy" to get to use or make either.


Well how do you make a 'flexible' module?

The purpose of a T3 ship is to be a hull that can have a vast array of different uses depending on the subsystem and modules you put on it, as opposed to having a T2 ship with a predefined role with slots and bonuses already established. The purposes of a module is to increase one ship attribute at the expense of another while consuming fitting resources.

I don't see how that fits into the idea of T3, you can't have modules with sub-modules that define their purposes can you? The end product would be the same as a regular module, may as well just introduce more regular modules if there are gaps.
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#44 - 2012-06-19 12:39:53 UTC
As an example, I would suggest a module such as the spoken-about "microwarp-jump" module.

T1 variant of it should not even exist. If it did, it should be very limited in ability to micro-jump.

T2 would allow a micro-jump of approximately 120Km in any chosen direction, give or take 10% added to range in accordance with various navigation skills.

T3 would allow a micro-jump, same as above, but have an additional 20% added to range, if and only IF it is supplied with a set amount of fuel.

There's no "win" button here, it's just a discussion about extending the function and use of existing and future modules.

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Jafit
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-06-19 12:45:48 UTC
Thorn Galen wrote:
There's no "win" button here, it's just a discussion about extending the function and use of existing and future modules.


What you're talking about, i.e. better than T2, is already in the game in the form of faction, deadspace and officer modules.
001100110011
00110011001100
#46 - 2012-06-19 12:47:22 UTC
I need a T3 car and a T3 house first :/
Doc Mulder
Doomheim
#47 - 2012-06-19 12:50:35 UTC
001100110011 wrote:
I need a T3 car and a T3 house first :/

T3 girlfriend. You know, more "flexible"
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#48 - 2012-06-19 12:53:54 UTC
Jafit wrote:
Thorn Galen wrote:
There's no "win" button here, it's just a discussion about extending the function and use of existing and future modules.


What you're talking about, i.e. better than T2, is already in the game in the form of faction, deadspace and officer modules.


That's part of a problem. Yes, those modules are better than T2, but that's it then ? No enhanced use, no flexibility on very expensive modules ?

Industrialists with very high skills should be able to make modules, with difficulty, which match the efficacy and expense of the modules you note.

A T3 module should be standard-use T2 and enhanced T3 function by 'adding' something to it, whether it's fuel blocks or Cap boosters or paste, heck, I don't know, I'm not Indy, but something to "stretch" their useful function. Give Industrialists a fresh challenge and give players even more to look forward to.

The same rule which applies to "getting into a ship" should apply. Just because a player can "get into a battleship" does not mean the player can actually fly it well, nor utilise it to it's full potential - not until all the necessary skills and experience have come into play. The same goes for T3 modules.

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-06-19 12:57:21 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
T3 is already OP as ****, I vote delete all t3.


you know to be honest i never understood what exactly is overpowered about T3 ships, i have flown T3 for a while and i found them quite underwhelming, not to mention extremely weak against Webbing, scramming and having quite low EHP.

aside from the 100mn Tengu, but even so, all you have to do is dual web it or neut it, and it is a pretty normal ship.





now back to the original topic, i aprove of T3 modules, but more than that, i would love to see Tech 3 Ammo, specially stuff like those sleeper missiles, the praedormitan missiles and alike or their crystals.


As you say, the Tengu is the only one that is over powered in anyway. The rest are just slight better than HAC's in some regards.
Spurty
#50 - 2012-06-19 13:00:49 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:



Actually Meta 4 Rolled Tungsten plates are better than T2 but there are also a lot of other mods in same scenario.


This is sadly all of the following:
- true
- broken
- to be fixed with T2 bring 15% better one day when CCP greyscale gets given something (time, green light, patch?!?)

It's also a bit bollox

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Jafit
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-06-19 14:53:45 UTC
Thorn Galen wrote:
A T3 module should be standard-use T2 and enhanced T3 function by 'adding' something to it, whether it's fuel blocks or Cap boosters or paste, heck, I don't know, I'm not Indy, but something to "stretch" their useful function. Give Industrialists a fresh challenge and give players even more to look forward to.

The same rule which applies to "getting into a ship" should apply. Just because a player can "get into a battleship" does not mean the player can actually fly it well, nor utilise it to it's full potential - not until all the necessary skills and experience have come into play. The same goes for T3 modules.


Sounds like you just want modules that require fuel and you're using 'Tech 3' as a branding rather than sugsting a module that actually follows the T3 philosophy. I mean you say that T3 modules should use fuel blocks or cap booster charges... but the ancillary shield booster uses cap booster charges, triage and siege modules use strontium clathrates to run, yet none of them are considered T3 or even T2.

If you wanted a true T3 module it would have to be a module that has more than just an on/off state, it'd be a module that you can set to like 3 or more different modes and it would do something different depending on what mode it was in. That might be an idea worth exploring.
Deise Koraka
Caldari Investigations and Forensics
#52 - 2012-06-19 22:02:25 UTC
*looks at title of thread -> laughs -> thinks you must be a Tengu pilot*

I am a carebear, and I support High Sec ganking and PvP. Just please, don't blow up my Hulk*. **<3 **

*Mackinaw as of Inferno 1.2
Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#53 - 2012-06-19 23:18:24 UTC
Thorn Galen wrote:


I am asking for T3 modules.



So....all T2 stuff requires technetium. What will T3 modules require? Unicorn blood?
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#54 - 2012-06-20 02:28:17 UTC
true about t3 mean to be a more all around stuf while T2 is specialized...
but in that case, i find T2 ships sort of underpowered against their t1 counterparts, specially on battleship and command ship hulls.
except for sleipnir, that thing is a beast...



but if T3 = generalization, then i want T3 Explosive damage crystals lower damage than T2, higher than T1, but work against explosive targets!

and omni damage missiles, higher than t1, lower than T2 but you dont have to choose an specific resistance.
Ziranda Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2012-06-20 02:43:06 UTC
Changing the Strat cruisers would just be a pain in the ass. why not go ahead and introduce a new Tech3 Ship. like Destroyers or better yet Battleships. oh oh oh i know Tech 3 Orca type ship.

This way if you make it a larger ship you can put more skill requirements needed and making production a nightmare.
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