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I fixed ECM, thank me after.

First post
Author
Important Alt
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-06-17 15:10:55 UTC
This gets pretty heavy as we go on, please try to take the time to absorb it all.

All ECM modules can be changed to a % of diminishing returns over time format. Each time a ECM module is used the jamming strength of each subsequent cycle is reduced until eventually it becomes useless.

All ECM modules will slowly recharge back to full strength but this will take a considerable amount of time. Selecting a recharge mode on the ECM module (similar to a repair) will render it disabled while it recharges at the accelerated rate. Of course docking and undocking will produce a full recharge as well. This also has the benefit of resetting the session.

If a falcon is attempting to jam one target, and is concentrating all available ECM modules on that single target then the diminishing effect is greatly accelerated. However, the first cycle of a module, of the session, always activates at 100% strength regardless of any other factors:

1st cycle of session excluded, all ECM modules activate at 100% strength.

2nd cycle on 1 target, on all of your ECM modules regardless of how many you use, re-activates at 80% strength.

3rd cycle on 1 target, on all of your ECM modules regardless of how many you use, re-activates at 60% strength.

Etc..


Even if you only activate one of your 5 ECM modules on a single target and try to conserve the strength of the others the use of
the first still provides a damaging effect to the other ECM modules, similar to heat damage but instead of heat, it is effectiveness damage. So if you are only jamming a single target then it makes sense to use all of your ECM modules from the outset to acheive maximum benefit as they will be all be diminishing in strength regardless of use very quickly.

However, this diminishing effect can be reduced considerably. The specific amount of damage to a single ECM module will be determined by how many other ECM modules are being activated on other targets by the time that ECM's module cycle ends.

For instance, you have just warped your falcon in and de-cloaked, you lock 5 targets of the 10 available and attempt to jam them with one module each. Remember, the first cycle is excluded so you could put all your modules on a single target for one cycle. As long as, by the time the second cycle ends on the ECM module in question, and you are currently activating the other ECM modules on seperate targets then the diminishing strength effect on that ECM module is massively reduced:

1st cycle of session excluded, all ECM modules activate at 100% strength.

2nd cycle on 5 targets, 1 ECM module on each, each ECM module re-activates at 95% strength.

3rd cycle on 5 targets, 1 ECM module on each, each ECM module re-activates at 90% strength.

Etc..


The more spread you have, the less damage is received to the ECM modules. Here are a few scenarios to illustrate my point:

A drake is ratting in a .4, a pirate gang blobs him. The single falcon in the gang throws everything at him and for the short time the drake remains alive he is jammed up the Kazoo just as he would be today, little has changed.

A drake is ratting in a .4, a pirate gang blobs him. The single falcon in the gang throws everything at him. This time however it is a bait drake for an anti-pirate gang that is sitting next door, the super tanked drake survives long enough for his friends to arrive and the real fight begins. However, this time, as silly falcon man has already blown his load and is down to 40% strength on all of his ECM modules his effectiveness in the fight is massively reduced.

He could start at this point putting a single ECM module on each target but his starting point is now at 40% and his following activation, in the best case scenario, will be activating at 35%. If the falcon pilot had waited to decloak as backup for some kind of larger fight, or HAD de-cloaked, but ONLY FIRED on the target instead just to get on the mail then his ECM modules would be at full strength ready for the gang that is about to land.

But even if had done this, and he was at 100% and he applied a spread of modules on each target the amount of damage receieved to each module is kept to a minimum only as long as each of those 5 targets dutifully remains locked and on the grid.

Things start getting tricky when for instance, 1 of those people you are attempting to jam suddenly decide to warp out. The ECM module that was activated on him suddenly ends causing additional damage to that module in question. The formula for reducing the damage to ECM modules is tied to the amount of the other available active ECM modules that are currently active on seperate ships.

If 1 ship left the grid, and the other 4 jammers were still active on 4 seperate ships then the increased damage to the deactivating jammer would only be slight. However, if 2 ships leave the grid, resulting in just 3 jammers remaining active as the cycles on the 2 jammers get ended then damage to the 2 deactivating jammers would increase, and so on.

This escalates to a worse case scenario, an opposing falcon de-cloaks and gets a cycle on your falcon. At the time, you was jamming 5 seperate targets with 5 seperate jammers to keep strength damage to a minimum but because they all suddenly deactivate simutaneously it causes a massive amount of extra strength damage as a result. Because the new opposing falcon is using his first excluded cycle he can throw EVERYTHING at the other falcon for full strength with no consequence for 1 CYCLE. The consequence for the falcon being jammed is devastating to his cycle strength, this could decide the entire fight.

The longer you use ECM, in a single fight, the less effective it becomes. It also encourages you to use less modules on a single target. In other words, it encourages ECM to be used strategically, and mostly as a last resort, NOT as a first line of fire & forget attack as it is today.

Now would be the time to thank me.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#2 - 2012-06-17 15:12:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Morganta
got permajammed again didn't ya?
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-06-17 15:13:37 UTC
He got permajammed

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Fix Lag
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-06-17 15:16:40 UTC
BECAUSE OF FALCON

CCP mostly sucks at their job, but Veritas is a pretty cool dude.

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#5 - 2012-06-17 15:22:03 UTC
pyjamas?

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Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#6 - 2012-06-17 15:22:19 UTC
I think this is a good thread. Good information to know. Might be better in the Ships and Fittings forum but still glad I read it.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#7 - 2012-06-17 15:23:47 UTC
Hey guize, I think he got permajammed.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#8 - 2012-06-17 15:28:48 UTC
What problem are you trying to solve? Note that "I got jammed and forgot that after 60 seconds I could have jumped my Drake through that gate due to dropping the aggression timer" is not a problem you solve by "fixing" ECM Blink


Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#9 - 2012-06-17 15:30:04 UTC
Curator IIs make short work of a Falcon.

No need to change mechanics.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#10 - 2012-06-17 15:31:01 UTC
thats a lot of words to say "diminishing returns on jammers".

Is this you?
stoicfaux
#11 - 2012-06-17 15:33:21 UTC
Meh, too complicated and "unrealistic" (i.e. what's the pseudo-science behind the sessions?)

IMHO, if really want to turn ECM away from its "all-or-nothing" damage reduction ability, then make it act like a reverse target painter. Meaning, if you're under the effects of ECM, all of your targets' sig radii are decreased noticeably, thus reducing the damage you do, increasing your lock times, etc.. You can still shoot, but at noticeably reduced effectiveness.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#12 - 2012-06-17 15:38:29 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Meh, too complicated and "unrealistic" (i.e. what's the pseudo-science behind the sessions?)

IMHO, if really want to turn ECM away from its "all-or-nothing" damage reduction ability, then make it act like a reverse target painter. Meaning, if you're under the effects of ECM, all of your targets' sig radii are decreased noticeably, thus reducing the damage you do, increasing your lock times, etc.. You can still shoot, but at noticeably reduced effectiveness.



so like a sensor dampener?
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#13 - 2012-06-17 15:40:35 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Meh, too complicated and "unrealistic" (i.e. what's the pseudo-science behind the sessions?)

IMHO, if really want to turn ECM away from its "all-or-nothing" damage reduction ability, then make it act like a reverse target painter. Meaning, if you're under the effects of ECM, all of your targets' sig radii are decreased noticeably, thus reducing the damage you do, increasing your lock times, etc.. You can still shoot, but at noticeably reduced effectiveness.



so like a sensor dampener?

Wow, I was thinking that too! Are you psychic?!?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-06-17 15:41:52 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Meh, too complicated and "unrealistic" (i.e. what's the pseudo-science behind the sessions?)

IMHO, if really want to turn ECM away from its "all-or-nothing" damage reduction ability, then make it act like a reverse target painter. Meaning, if you're under the effects of ECM, all of your targets' sig radii are decreased noticeably, thus reducing the damage you do, increasing your lock times, etc.. You can still shoot, but at noticeably reduced effectiveness.



so like a sensor dampener?


No, like a sensor dampener/weapon disrutor/ECM/doomsday Big smile

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#15 - 2012-06-17 15:43:03 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Meh, too complicated and "unrealistic" (i.e. what's the pseudo-science behind the sessions?)

IMHO, if really want to turn ECM away from its "all-or-nothing" damage reduction ability, then make it act like a reverse target painter. Meaning, if you're under the effects of ECM, all of your targets' sig radii are decreased noticeably, thus reducing the damage you do, increasing your lock times, etc.. You can still shoot, but at noticeably reduced effectiveness.



so like a sensor dampener?

Wow, I was thinking that too! Are you psychic?!?


My secret.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#16 - 2012-06-17 15:43:44 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Meh, too complicated and "unrealistic" (i.e. what's the pseudo-science behind the sessions?)

IMHO, if really want to turn ECM away from its "all-or-nothing" damage reduction ability, then make it act like a reverse target painter. Meaning, if you're under the effects of ECM, all of your targets' sig radii are decreased noticeably, thus reducing the damage you do, increasing your lock times, etc.. You can still shoot, but at noticeably reduced effectiveness.



so like a sensor dampener?

Wow, I was thinking that too! Are you psychic?!?


My secret.

Spirit Fingers!?!

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#17 - 2012-06-17 15:50:39 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Meh, too complicated and "unrealistic" (i.e. what's the pseudo-science behind the sessions?)

IMHO, if really want to turn ECM away from its "all-or-nothing" damage reduction ability, then make it act like a reverse target painter. Meaning, if you're under the effects of ECM, all of your targets' sig radii are decreased noticeably, thus reducing the damage you do, increasing your lock times, etc.. You can still shoot, but at noticeably reduced effectiveness.



so like a sensor dampener?


And a tracking disruptor?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-06-17 15:50:50 UTC
I think it's a cool idea. Whether ECM needs changing is debatable, but supposing it did need changing, this post is worth considering.
stoicfaux
#19 - 2012-06-17 16:11:29 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Meh, too complicated and "unrealistic" (i.e. what's the pseudo-science behind the sessions?)

IMHO, if really want to turn ECM away from its "all-or-nothing" damage reduction ability, then make it act like a reverse target painter. Meaning, if you're under the effects of ECM, all of your targets' sig radii are decreased noticeably, thus reducing the damage you do, increasing your lock times, etc.. You can still shoot, but at noticeably reduced effectiveness.



so like a sensor dampener?


And a tracking disruptor?


Correct. Tracking disruptor is the closest similar module in performance/effect, and will probably be identical once/if TD's affect missiles. Sensor dampers do a bit more than increase lock times, i.e. they reduce targeting range.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#20 - 2012-06-17 16:13:31 UTC
In other news, I discovered ECCM does in fact work against jamming NPC's. Not a 100% guarantee, but jams will land alot less frequently.

So close...

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