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@CCP : Do not cave in to Goons on Inferno 1.1

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Freezehunter
#221 - 2012-06-18 16:47:07 UTC
It's amazing how out of touch with nullsec living practices high sec players are, isn't it?

When I used to live in 0.0, every time we had a war dec, no one gave half a **** because no one ever actually bothered us, and no one was actually in high sec from our side except the market and hauling neutral alts.

We did have the occasional ****** T1 fleet attacking our 0.0 space from empire, but they learned what bubbles are for the hard way.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#222 - 2012-06-18 16:50:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
if anyone's curious my npc hauler alt was osakran vosbosgernt (or something like that it's hard as hell to spell) for a long time, until i needed him in 0.0 (so now he has a GSF char history if anyone thinks to check and wants to try to suicide me, so I don't use him for actual npc hauiling)

i now have another one and use osakran every so often as a cloaked npc warpin on hulks

that's just one of my personal ones all people who do anything in empire have one

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#223 - 2012-06-18 16:50:52 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Haquer wrote:
I like the part where he denies none of this

He's denied it repeatedly before, but keeps forgetting about the webarchive link. Once that comes out he stops denying it for a while and getting all quiet-like but in about a month he'll start denying it again.

10 Like his "it's GOONS!" -- "No, Jade, it's not"
20 "Well I never said that"
30 *link*
40 *silence*
50 (some time passed)
GO TO 10

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#224 - 2012-06-18 16:53:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Enaris Kerle wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
most null sec corps do use Jita and other trade hubs... both to supply their efforts and sell products for good profits to a wider market. This does put them at risk during a wardec. war decs are just one tool against a null sec alliance.

let me introduce you to this radical concept called "market alt"


let me introduce you to another radical concept called recon scout - and market alt identification.


It wasn't market scouts that "burnt" jita.. I figure burning of jita 2 comes along and BOB oops I mean goon could get decced which would be more interesting than what we had last time.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#225 - 2012-06-18 16:55:43 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
if anyone's curious my npc hauler alt was osakran vosbosgernt (or something like that it's hard as hell to spell) for a long time, until i needed him in 0.0 (so now he has a GSF char history if anyone thinks to check and wants to try to suicide me, so I don't use him for actual npc hauiling)

i now have another one and use osakran every so often as a cloaked npc warpin on hulks

that's just one of my personal ones all people who do anything in empire have one

Every little ibis or even just a pod.

Be careful ~~~

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#226 - 2012-06-18 16:55:48 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Enaris Kerle wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
most null sec corps do use Jita and other trade hubs... both to supply their efforts and sell products for good profits to a wider market. This does put them at risk during a wardec. war decs are just one tool against a null sec alliance.

let me introduce you to this radical concept called "market alt"


let me introduce you to another radical concept called recon scout - and market alt identification.


Yeah cause most of you put forth the effort to do that.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#227 - 2012-06-18 16:56:55 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Enaris Kerle wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
most null sec corps do use Jita and other trade hubs... both to supply their efforts and sell products for good profits to a wider market. This does put them at risk during a wardec. war decs are just one tool against a null sec alliance.

let me introduce you to this radical concept called "market alt"


let me introduce you to another radical concept called recon scout - and market alt identification.

my market alt is in GSF and never undocks from 4-4. He then trades stuff to my npc alt, or if I am actually worried about getting stuff from there out (or lazy, usually lazy), I merely use pubbie courier contracts with excess collateral. At no point will I ever have a gsf character exposed to being ganked due to wardecs in empire. If you want to try to suicide my npc hauler, well you can do that, but that's irrelevant to wardecs.

Every so often a wardec will catch someone stupid, but all of our logistics as an alliance and as any major industrialist are designed around the assumption that GSF is always wardecced.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#228 - 2012-06-18 16:57:36 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
if anyone's curious my npc hauler alt was osakran vosbosgernt (or something like that it's hard as hell to spell) for a long time, until i needed him in 0.0 (so now he has a GSF char history if anyone thinks to check and wants to try to suicide me, so I don't use him for actual npc hauiling)

i now have another one and use osakran every so often as a cloaked npc warpin on hulks

that's just one of my personal ones all people who do anything in empire have one

Every little ibis or even just a pod.

Be careful ~~~

miners started getting wise to pods and ibises but nobody's ever gotten wise to a blockade runner that doesn't decloak

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Nastrado
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#229 - 2012-06-18 16:57:42 UTC
All this anger Jade. It can't be good for you. This obsession you have isn't healthy at all. Will you ever get over being kicked off the CSM?
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#230 - 2012-06-18 16:57:48 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:

Without radical improvement in the actual wardec mechanics (ie win conditions, attacker consequences, ways of tracking the result) there is no point to having mercenaries in a defensive war because they can only involve themselves in 2 week random stints and can do nothing to make the attacker actually lose. If the defender does actually pay a large amount of money to a merc for a defensive war the the attacker can score a "victory" simply by docking up or logging off or waiting out the 2 week period then continuing again.


Killboards, kill reports. Attacker loses when they have to surrender, or lose so many of their assets that they dissolve. Docking up is not a victory and can easily be resolved by re-deccing that person again.

Jade Constantine wrote:

Point is there is nothing a merc can really do to oppose the incoming wardec. This is why in eve as a whole over the last five years the merc profession has become something that does specialized short order contract work rather than joining in on hisec wars. You hire mercs to blow up or defend a POS, you hire mercs to give you security for a big logistics move perhaps, you hire mercs to clear a system of enemy Customs offices. These are discrete jobs that can be judged on succeed/fail terms and can be paid for (usually wardec fee + bonus) if they are accomplished.


I think you don't understand what Merc's are actually for. Most of the descriptions you provide here are jobs that should be performed by different sections of an alliance, which is what CCP would like to see more of in high sec, Merc's would be hired for the dirty work. Or perhaps think of them as a stiletto blade for quick, accurate guerilla strikes.

Jade Constantine wrote:

This 1.1 change assumption that people are suddenly going to start hiring professional mercs for billions into defensive wardecs to try to "win" wars is just nonsense and vapour. There aren't more than a handful of professional merc corp/alliances in the game at this point and none of them are capable of doing enough damage to a large alliance that said alliiance would remove a "griefing dec" from a particular target. It just isn't going to happen.


Supply and demand Jade, one of the most basic tenets of business. The more demand there is for Merc's, the more Merc corps will spring up to fill that need.


Jade Constantine wrote:

GIANT WALL OF TEXT.


Meh. You win when your enemy admits defeat.


"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#231 - 2012-06-18 16:59:32 UTC
Also if you start thinking "well what about jump freighters!!": that's easy, you just use npc haulers to the lowsec midpoint and then trade over there.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#232 - 2012-06-18 16:59:48 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
my market alt is in GSF and never undocks from 4-4.

The joys of never undocking Big smile

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#233 - 2012-06-18 17:01:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Weaselior wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Enaris Kerle wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
most null sec corps do use Jita and other trade hubs... both to supply their efforts and sell products for good profits to a wider market. This does put them at risk during a wardec. war decs are just one tool against a null sec alliance.

let me introduce you to this radical concept called "market alt"


let me introduce you to another radical concept called recon scout - and market alt identification.

my market alt is in GSF and never undocks from 4-4. He then trades stuff to my npc alt, or if I am actually worried about getting stuff from there out (or lazy, usually lazy), I merely use pubbie courier contracts with excess collateral. At no point will I ever have a gsf character exposed to being ganked due to wardecs in empire. If you want to try to suicide my npc hauler, well you can do that, but that's irrelevant to wardecs.

Every so often a wardec will catch someone stupid, but all of our logistics as an alliance and as any major industrialist are designed around the assumption that GSF is always wardecced.


as I said it's one tool in the box. How well do you thing the "Burning of Jita" would have went with wardeccs from a dozen corps against goon... I didn't see market alts sitting in stations blowing up ships.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
dontbanmebro
Doomheim
#234 - 2012-06-18 17:05:16 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
let me introduce you to another radical concept called recon scout - and market alt identification.


hahaha

why do you insist on posting about subjects you clearly know nothing about? do you think you're going to trick people who actually do understand the topic?

so ridiculous
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#235 - 2012-06-18 17:06:31 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:

as I said it's one tool in the box. How well do you thing the "Burning of Jita" would have went with wardeccs from a dozen corps against goon... I didn't see martek alts sitting in stations blowing up ships.

It would have went precisely as it did, we had plenty of wardecs and to cover them had a drakefleet murderizing wardecs. Nobody in highsec can come close to standing up to an actual goon fleet, the only things that were remotely annoying were fleets from other 0.0 alliances (who had us wardecced).

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#236 - 2012-06-18 17:07:02 UTC
dontbanmebro wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
let me introduce you to another radical concept called recon scout - and market alt identification.


hahaha

why do you insist on posting about subjects you clearly know nothing about? do you think you're going to trick people who actually do understand the topic?

so ridiculous


are you stupid? or are you just trying to intimidate.. intel is what I do.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#237 - 2012-06-18 17:07:37 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:

are you stupid? or are you just trying to intimidate.. intel is what I do.

Then you don't do it well, at all.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#238 - 2012-06-18 17:08:18 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:

as I said it's one tool in the box. How well do you thing the "Burning of Jita" would have went with wardeccs from a dozen corps against goon... I didn't see martek alts sitting in stations blowing up ships.

It would have went precisely as it did,.


we disagree wildly on that point.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
dontbanmebro
Doomheim
#239 - 2012-06-18 17:08:35 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
as I said it's one tool in the box. How well do you thing the "Burning of Jita" would have went with wardeccs from a dozen corps against goon... I didn't see market alts sitting in stations blowing up ships.


There were...that's why goons had an entire combat fleet dedicated to securing the system for the gank fleets.

Again, opining on subjects you know nothing about.

If there's something you don't know or understand, then ask. Don't just make stuff up because people are just going to call you on it every time.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#240 - 2012-06-18 17:08:53 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:

are you stupid? or are you just trying to intimidate.. intel is what I do.

Then you don't do it well, at all.



really?

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]