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CCP Soundwave: If EvE isn't fair...

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InternetSpaceship
State War Academy
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-06-16 16:15:21 UTC  |  Edited by: InternetSpaceship
SetrakDark wrote:
Alia Gon'die wrote:
Do you have any evidence of number 5 there? Anything whose veracity can be verified? TIA


I would like to see this too. The whole tinfoil conspiracy theory rests on the suggestion that somehow hisec wardecs suddenly, after years of being utterly and unambiguously meaningless to nullsec organizations, mattered. Even more so, that more wardecs mattered more.

So far nobody has been able to back this claim up one bit.


People always have stories of bitter goon tears, but no one ever backs them up. It's just like when a kid gets beat up, and later tells his friends all about how he had those bullies on the ropes, just crying and begging him for mercy.

The best part was about goons being slaughtered in high sec. We don't have any bases anywhere near high sec.

That's not to say that goons can't sperg with the best of them, they just do it in jabber and get banned for it.

Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.

If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.  If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you.
Alia Gon'die
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#62 - 2012-06-16 16:19:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Alia Gon'die
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
So to make sure I understand because I am not real bright... and please correct me if I am wrong.


Allegedly:

You declared war on Goons.
They set it to mutual.
You added a bunch of allies.
Goons cried foul.
CCP Dev and former GSF member Soundwave jumped in to save Goons from the war by increasing the amount of ISK to maintain the war.
Rage and stuff on forums.

Meanwhile, Goons lobbied to have super-caps nerfed (allegedly for the good of the community as a whole) and to have Tech nerfed (allegedly for the good of the community as a whole).

I do believe CCP has an Internal Affairs group and that they would be a better audience for this. Fuming on the forums just makes you look bitter.

But I don't understand stuff very well because I am not real bright...


You are right about the brightness part, or are intentionally being obtuse. Take your pick.

1. Goons declared war, not the other way around.
2. Jade set it mutual, as per the game mechanics, thereby locking goons into a forever war.
3. Jade added a ton of allies. all who wanted a piece of goons in high / low sec. Once again, using the new war dec mechanics.
4. Goons started getting hammered in empire. Jade and allies never had any intention of fighting in null.
5. Goons cried.
6. Someone at CCP on incredibly short notice announced sweeping, immediate changes to the brand new war dec mechanics, making it impossible for Jade and allies to continue the war economically, plus giving goons a way to end the war after 2 weeks.
7. Rage on the forums.


Do you have any evidence of number 5 there? Anything whose veracity can be verified? TIA

Edit: Also, this hammering in empire is this the source for that? Because Goons losing 20 ships hardly counts as getting hammered.

For those who may not be able to see the picture it breaks down like this:

Started 2012.05.03
Goonswarm Federation............................................The Honda Accord
7,285,184,083 ISK killed...........................................18,717,564,832 ISK killed
43 ships killed.............................................................363 Ships Killed

Started 2012.05.18
Test Alliance Please Ignore......................................The Honda Accord
514,059,187 ISK killed...............................................15,981,308,283 ISK killed
8 Ships Killed...............................................................598 Ships Killed

Started 2012.05.31
Goonswarm Federation.............................................The Star Fraction
1,511,365,668 ISK Killed...........................................10,214,708,243 ISK Killed
20 Ships Killed............................................................62 Ships Killed

These numbers come straight from the post Jade Constantine made on EN24.

So how do these numbers add up to Goonswarm getting their butts kicked so hard they started to cry? Losses like these are fairly commonplace for Goons, and they generally don't seem to care about huge losses.

In addition, I have yet to see anyone, including Jade, offer any real evidence of these supposed "Goon Tears". I always get told to go look for the evidence myself. Well I looked for the evidence, and I didn't come back with anything substantiative.

The interpretation that I have to make from all of this evidence is that none of these "Goon Tears" took place, and that Jade Constantine is simply trying to whip people up into a frenzy for his own goals.

This seeming hatred of Goonswarm by Jade probably stems from the fact that we whomped his BFFs BoB back in the day, and he is still carrying a grudge from that.

Edited in order to re-add links that got lost in the C&P.

Self-appointed forums hallway monitor Ask me about La Maison and what it means for you! http://bit.ly/LTW5gW These wardec rules are not in place for our protection. They're in place for yours.
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2012-06-16 16:52:22 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:

Its also a counter to alliance theft and destruction that hasn't been addressed since (well surprise surprise, the goons used the tactic to remove your ancient enemy bob.) Its effectively impossible to secure a large alliance entity from infiltration and whats going to happen should somebody form a serious alliance compromising hundreds of hisec anti goon people will be that it'll get infiltrated and suddenly 50% will declare support to somebody else and then the alliance explodes in another goon coup.

The mechanics of alliance security have never been resolved sufficiently to make it worth the time pursuing that route.


I actually agree with your general view that the proposals are unfair, but I don't think the above really holds water as a reason. Whatever the flaws are in security, they're felt by all alliances and corps, Goons included. You also have the same tools at your disposal that they do when it comes to infiltration.

My argument would instead be : why SHOULD you form an alliance?

Surely if Eve really is a sandbox (and it seems to be moving away from that concept), the devs supply the tools, the players decide how to use them. Outside of exploits - which the mutual war tactic clearly isn't - the devs really shouldn't be placing arbitrary restrictions on how those tools are used.

Reminds me of the end of Crysis, where you have this awesome gun thing, the TAC cannon - and you can't use the damn thing until the game says "ok, NOW you're allowed to use it", and it can only be used to blow up one specific thing in the game. That sucked.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#64 - 2012-06-16 16:54:21 UTC
Daiony wrote:
I applaud you. I like your thinking. I take you by your words. EVE IS NOT FAIR. Now prove to us that you mean it:

- Un-nerf supercaps.
- don't overnerf the ally dec systems, let the bullied bully back
- let slip the dogs of war

Or do you mean by "Eve isn't fair" that it is not fair if you are not in a large, rich 0.0 alliance? If so, i beg you pardon, sir.

best regards


PS.: trillions of isk? really?


i think you missunderstand the difference between fair and balanced...

if you need clarification i will ask hannity to explain it for you...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2012-06-16 16:57:50 UTC
Daiony wrote:
I applaud you. I like your thinking. I take you by your words. EVE IS NOT FAIR. Now prove to us that you mean it:

- Un-nerf supercaps.
- don't overnerf the ally dec systems, let the bullied bully back
- let slip the dogs of war

Or do you mean by "Eve isn't fair" that it is not fair if you are not in a large, rich 0.0 alliance? If so, i beg you pardon, sir.

best regards


PS.: trillions of isk? really?



wait: and also make hulks ungankable... Twisted

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2012-06-16 17:21:53 UTC
"unnerf supercaps, that'll show those large 0.0 alliances what unfair really means"

jesus
Alia Gon'die
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#67 - 2012-06-16 17:23:31 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
"unnerf supercaps, that'll show those large 0.0 alliances what unfair really means"

jesus


I know, right? It's like, *This is what High-sec Dwellers Actually Believe*

Self-appointed forums hallway monitor Ask me about La Maison and what it means for you! http://bit.ly/LTW5gW These wardec rules are not in place for our protection. They're in place for yours.
Tarsus Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2012-06-16 17:23:43 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

4. Goons started getting hammered in empire. Jade and allies never had any intention of fighting in null.


Yes, all ten of us in Empire are getting hammered. *golf clap*

You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#69 - 2012-06-16 17:27:57 UTC
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

4. Goons started getting hammered in empire. Jade and allies never had any intention of fighting in null.


Yes, all ten of us in Empire are getting hammered. *golf clap*



Yep all 10 of you, and 9000 of your alts P


Tal



Tarsus Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2012-06-16 17:32:59 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

4. Goons started getting hammered in empire. Jade and allies never had any intention of fighting in null.


Yes, all ten of us in Empire are getting hammered. *golf clap*



Yep all 10 of you, and 9000 of your alts P


Alts are a way of life in Empire warring, I trust you're applying that metric to our enemies as well.

You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#71 - 2012-06-16 17:35:16 UTC
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

4. Goons started getting hammered in empire. Jade and allies never had any intention of fighting in null.


Yes, all ten of us in Empire are getting hammered. *golf clap*



Yep all 10 of you, and 9000 of your alts P


Alts are a way of life in Empire warring, I trust you're applying that metric to our enemies as well.


I wasn't applying anything, just having a chuckle...

Tal
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#72 - 2012-06-16 17:38:01 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Yep all 10 of you, and 9000 of your alts P

there are 9000 different goons who died in highsec to wardecs?

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2012-06-16 17:40:06 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
5. Goons cried.


Link me a single thread, post or something proving this.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Tarsus Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#74 - 2012-06-16 17:41:03 UTC
Alia Gon'die wrote:

This seeming hatred of Goonswarm by Jade probably stems from the fact that we whomped his BFFs BoB back in the day, and he is still carrying a grudge from that.


Jade just likes that attention is all. Having the wealthiest, most powerful (heh) alliance in the game attacking him is excellent spin. Ignoring the fact that all of ten goons give a crap about Empire warring and the only goons Jade will ever see are those ten or the odd imbecile goon that thinks undocking from Jita 4-4 in a freighter is a good idea.

You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#75 - 2012-06-16 17:41:43 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Yep all 10 of you, and 9000 of your alts P

there are 9000 different goons who died in highsec to wardecs?



Why so serious ..... Lol

Tal

Tarsus Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2012-06-16 17:42:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarsus Zateki
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Yep all 10 of you, and 9000 of your alts P

there are 9000 different goons who died in highsec to wardecs?


Given the tendancy for our bros to undock bling **** from Jita 4-4 for no good reason I wouldn't be at all surprised if we hit that number by the time this forever war ends.

You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2012-06-16 17:44:29 UTC
It amazes me how Jade Constantine isn't banned

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Alia Gon'die
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#78 - 2012-06-16 17:45:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Alia Gon'die
Still waiting on Jade or a member of his posse to respond to this post.

Edited because you don't capitalize posse.

Self-appointed forums hallway monitor Ask me about La Maison and what it means for you! http://bit.ly/LTW5gW These wardec rules are not in place for our protection. They're in place for yours.
Alia Gon'die
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#79 - 2012-06-16 17:46:38 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
It amazes me how Jade Constantine isn't banned


Because there is no rule that says you have to back anything you say up with facts.

Self-appointed forums hallway monitor Ask me about La Maison and what it means for you! http://bit.ly/LTW5gW These wardec rules are not in place for our protection. They're in place for yours.
Tarsus Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2012-06-16 17:48:30 UTC
Alia Gon'die wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
It amazes me how Jade Constantine isn't banned


Because there is no rule that says you have to back anything you say up with facts.


As an example, I'm flying to Iceland next week with a big brief case filled with US Dollars gained from RTM'ing our O-Tech proceeds. There's some changes we want made to the game you see.

You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.