These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CCP Soundwave: If EvE isn't fair...

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Aruken Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-06-16 13:58:33 UTC
Daiony wrote:

Or do you mean by "Eve isn't fair" that it is not fair if you are not in a large, rich 0.0 alliance? If so, i beg you pardon, sir.


Yes because grander scales of teamwork shouldn't grant you advantages. Eve should be based off of the this.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#22 - 2012-06-16 14:01:45 UTC
Don't mind me. I am just in this thread looking for my car keys. Incidentally, is this just another "Goons R Bad" thread. I would like to request more original and emergent player generated forum content. These are all getting boring.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc
#23 - 2012-06-16 14:29:02 UTC
seany1212 wrote:
**** it, while we're at it bring back the AoE doomsday for lack of fairness Lol


This would be amazing. Never again would their be a subcap fight in 0.0
Taihbea
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-06-16 14:33:46 UTC
And what did you expect?
There's a reason he got nicknamed Soundwaffe.

He's a hypocrite and a big one. Finally one true sandbox mechanic and boom a goon steps in and zoom thing is gone. **** that and **** them.
InternetSpaceship
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-06-16 14:50:15 UTC
Taihbea wrote:
And what did you expect?
There's a reason he got nicknamed Soundwaffe.

He's a hypocrite and a big one. Finally one true sandbox mechanic and boom a goon steps in and zoom thing is gone. **** that and **** them.


Prove it.

I'm surprised how many of you want supercaps to be unnerfed. You know that would only make goons far more powerful, right? We have so many supercaps it's just stupid. Take away the nerf (that we lobbied for in the first place to make the game more fair) and goons really will be a permanent unbeatable fixture in this game, no matter how well highsec gets it's **** together.

You really don't want supercaps unnerfed, is my point. Also, none of you have a shred of evidence of any of the **** you're accusing Soundwave of.

Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.

If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.  If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you.
Alia Gon'die
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#26 - 2012-06-16 15:01:55 UTC
It's funny, Goons are remembering their roots and trying to make it so that any little alliance could theoretically step up and do what Goons did in their infancy, and these bleating pubbies don't want it. In fact, they seem to want the opposite. They want the big kid on the block to be completely unbeatable.

It's like the lie of the American Dream, you have people voting against their own financial best interests because of the false hope that one day they, too, will be super-rich and untaxed.

Self-appointed forums hallway monitor Ask me about La Maison and what it means for you! http://bit.ly/LTW5gW These wardec rules are not in place for our protection. They're in place for yours.
Alia Gon'die
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#27 - 2012-06-16 15:05:31 UTC
Also, this has been a great honeypot thread. Thank you OP, for getting so many people to speak up and be reported for personal attacks. You really made my day.

Self-appointed forums hallway monitor Ask me about La Maison and what it means for you! http://bit.ly/LTW5gW These wardec rules are not in place for our protection. They're in place for yours.
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-06-16 15:08:40 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Oh look, a coward hiding behind an alt.
Now THAT'S an opinion worth to consider !


How about commenting on the message rather than the messenger?
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#29 - 2012-06-16 15:10:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Solstice Project wrote:
Oh look, a coward hiding behind an alt.
Now THAT'S an opinion worth to consider !


Ordinarily I don't have much time for people using alts to post opinions either. But on this occassion I can honestly see the player's point. Lets face it - that person's corp/alliance could get war-decced by Goons / Test for 50m isk a week for the rest of their eve career and the 1.1 Inferno wardec changes have ensured its now literally-impossible to assemble a counter force without paying a massively disproportionate burden of isk for the pleasure.

CCP have made it quite apparent that large alliances are being provided signficant advantages in the 1.1 wardec system because "Eve isn't fair" and that being the case it becomes something of a nonsense for the little guy to behave as it "eve is fair" and open themselves up to griefing wardecs to which they now have absolutely no sensible recourse of counteraction.

So yeah, welcome to Eve 2012. Its the land of the nullsec aristocracy where emergent gameplay only goes one way (null beating up on hisec) and if you dare express an opinion then Soundwave feels 9000 vs 100 (or 10, or 1) is an appropriate engagement given social consequences of the (one way) sandbox.

Now are you really surprised that people are going to start using alts to express their opinions?

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
InternetSpaceship
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-06-16 15:12:47 UTC  |  Edited by: InternetSpaceship
Jade Constantine wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Oh look, a coward hiding behind an alt.
Now THAT'S an opinion worth to consider !


Ordinarily I don't have much time for people using alts to post opinions either. But on this occassion I can honestly see the player's point. Lets face it - that person's corp/alliance could get war-decced by Goons / Test for 50m isk a week for the rest of their eve career and the 1.1 Inferno wardec changes have ensured its now literally-impossible to assemble a counter force without paying a massively disproportionate burden of isk for the pleasure.

CCP have it quite apparently that large alliances are being provided signficant advantages in the 1.1 wardec system because "Eve isn't fair" and that being the case it becomes something of a nonsense for the little guy to behave as it "eve is fair" and open themselves up to griefing wardecs that they now have absolutely no semrecourse of counteraction too.

So yeah, welcome to Eve 2012. Its the land of the nullsec aristocracy where emergent gameplay only goes one way (null beating up on hisec) and if you dare express an opinion then Soundwave feels 9000 vs 100 (or 10, or 1) is an appropriate engagement given social consequences of the sandbox.

Now are you really surprised that people are going to start using alts to express their opinions?


Go look at the Tech fix thread and see which corp is actively discussing ways to nerf tech with a gm to level the playing field for everyone else. Hint: It's the same corp that lobbied for supercap nerfs to level the playing field for smaller corps.

You won't care, though. You've already made up your mind, facts be damned.

Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.

If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.  If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#31 - 2012-06-16 15:15:51 UTC
Alia Gon'die wrote:
It's funny, Goons are remembering their roots and trying to make it so that any little alliance could theoretically step up and do what Goons did in their infancy, and these bleating pubbies don't want it. In fact, they seem to want the opposite. They want the big kid on the block to be completely unbeatable.


You have this completely back to front. Goons are the big kids on the block and inferno 1.1 makes its pretty much untenable to oppose them through the wardec system. At this point Goons are the aristocracy of Eve online, they are the old money with connections and advantages of birth - they look down on actual eve players and frankly with good cause, the "pubbies" are a disunited plebian mass worthy only to pay subscriptions whose own opinions and interests are constantly dismissed as unsightly aspirations to "fairness."

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
InternetSpaceship
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-06-16 15:17:32 UTC  |  Edited by: InternetSpaceship
Jade Constantine wrote:
Alia Gon'die wrote:
It's funny, Goons are remembering their roots and trying to make it so that any little alliance could theoretically step up and do what Goons did in their infancy, and these bleating pubbies don't want it. In fact, they seem to want the opposite. They want the big kid on the block to be completely unbeatable.


You have this completely back to front. Goons are the big kids on the block and inferno 1.1 makes its pretty much untenable to oppose them through the wardec system. At this point Goons are the aristocracy of Eve online, they are the old money with connections and advantages of birth - they look down on actual eve players and frankly with good cause, the "pubbies" are a disunited plebian mass worthy only to pay subscriptions whose own opinions and interests are constantly dismissed as unsightly aspirations to "fairness."


Can you stupid ******* pubbies just not read or something? Goons are actively attempting to balance things, and have done so in the past as well.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=121591

Hell, we got supercaps nerfed to give you a fighting chance and you're raging against that, too. Not that any of you is interested in facts, you just want to rage against us, facts be damned.

Goons get **** done in this game not because the GMs are conspiring with us, but because we address them with actual ideas instead of just incessantly whining about how hard and unfair everything is.

Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.

If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.  If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you.
Alia Gon'die
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#33 - 2012-06-16 15:20:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Alia Gon'die
Jade Constantine wrote:
Alia Gon'die wrote:
It's funny, Goons are remembering their roots and trying to make it so that any little alliance could theoretically step up and do what Goons did in their infancy, and these bleating pubbies don't want it. In fact, they seem to want the opposite. They want the big kid on the block to be completely unbeatable.


You have this completely back to front. Goons are the big kids on the block and inferno 1.1 makes its pretty much untenable to oppose them through the wardec system. At this point Goons are the aristocracy of Eve online, they are the old money with connections and advantages of birth - they look down on actual eve players and frankly with good cause, the "pubbies" are a disunited plebian mass worthy only to pay subscriptions whose own opinions and interests are constantly dismissed as unsightly aspirations to "fairness."


So instead of having all these people getting in on a free wardec, why not do what Goons did and form an actual alliance to fight them? That seems like a much easier way to go about things. This allies thing that you used basically seems like a free way to get around forming an alliance.

Also, do you have any evidence beyond that one post by a nobody that Goons were demanding this change? Because I sure haven't, and despite asking for it for the last few days I have yet to see it.

Self-appointed forums hallway monitor Ask me about La Maison and what it means for you! http://bit.ly/LTW5gW These wardec rules are not in place for our protection. They're in place for yours.
InternetSpaceship
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-06-16 15:22:05 UTC
Alia Gon'die wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Alia Gon'die wrote:
It's funny, Goons are remembering their roots and trying to make it so that any little alliance could theoretically step up and do what Goons did in their infancy, and these bleating pubbies don't want it. In fact, they seem to want the opposite. They want the big kid on the block to be completely unbeatable.


You have this completely back to front. Goons are the big kids on the block and inferno 1.1 makes its pretty much untenable to oppose them through the wardec system. At this point Goons are the aristocracy of Eve online, they are the old money with connections and advantages of birth - they look down on actual eve players and frankly with good cause, the "pubbies" are a disunited plebian mass worthy only to pay subscriptions whose own opinions and interests are constantly dismissed as unsightly aspirations to "fairness."


So instead of having all these people getting in on a free wardec, why not do what Goons did and form an actual alliance to fight them? That seems like a much easier way to go about things. This allies thing that you used basically seems like a free way to get around forming an alliance.

Also, do you have any evidence beyond that one post by a nobody that Goons were demanding this change? Because I sure haven't, and despite asking for it for the last few days I have yet to see it.


Because that takes money, time, and effort. Easier to just cry about it.

Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.

If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.  If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you.
SetrakDark
Doomheim
#35 - 2012-06-16 15:22:09 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
You have this completely back to front. Goons are the big kids on the block and inferno 1.1 makes its pretty much untenable to oppose them through the wardec system. At this point Goons are the aristocracy of Eve online, they are the old money with connections and advantages of birth - they look down on actual eve players and frankly with good cause, the "pubbies" are a disunited plebian mass worthy only to pay subscriptions whose own opinions and interests are constantly dismissed as unsightly aspirations to "fairness."


You could dogpile every single hisec-based organization onto a wardec against goons, and goons would still be able to attack you with utter impunity. That`s it. End of story.

The fact that you are willing to create so much drama over something that has no impact on nullsec alliances at the cost of the hisec people whom it actually affects shows how emotionally disturbed and mentally unbalanced you are.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#36 - 2012-06-16 15:22:46 UTC
InternetSpaceship wrote:

Go look at the Tech fix thread and see which corp is actively discussing ways to nerf tech with a gm to level the playing field for everyone else. Hint: It's the same corp that lobbied for supercap nerfs to level the playing field for smaller corps.
You won't care, though. You've already made up your mind, facts be damned.



I skimmed the thread. I saw that Soundwave was talking about delaying the ring-mining implementation (tech-nerf) beyond the implementation of new POS system (ie christmas) and the Goonswarm leadership saying that the reason nullsec had been utterly stagnant recently was uncertainty over the tech nerf. The general position seemed to be that if Soundwave would confirm that nothing was going to happen to tech for X period of time goonswarm would be happy to start making war in 0.0 again. But as long as there was uncertainty then the OTEC stasis would continue.

So yes, ring-mining and complete end to pos-based mineral extraction is needed. But it seems the timescale is sliding off into the distant future beyond the scope even of the now fabled "dead horse pos revamp." Its something the next generation of eve players might see in a year or so.

Not a great immediate solution to the problem of the Inferno 1.1 wardec nerf in favour of the largest 0.0 alliances though is it?

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
HVAC Repairman
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2012-06-16 15:25:06 UTC
Stating opinions and making wild accusations with no supporting evidence are two different things entirely.

Follow me on twitter
Aruken Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-06-16 15:26:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Aruken Marr
Personally I'd say IP ban these idiots for slanderous and unfounded accusations. These are peoples jobs and livelihood you are playing with here. Get a ******* life...
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#39 - 2012-06-16 15:28:31 UTC
Alia Gon'die wrote:
So instead of having all these people getting in on a free wardec, why not do what Goons did and form an actual alliance to fight them? That seems like a much easier way to go about things. This allies thing that you used basically seems like a free way to get around forming an alliance.


Its also a counter to alliance theft and destruction that hasn't been addressed since (well surprise surprise, the goons used the tactic to remove your ancient enemy bob.) Its effectively impossible to secure a large alliance entity from infiltration and whats going to happen should somebody form a serious alliance compromising hundreds of hisec anti goon people will be that it'll get infiltrated and suddenly 50% will declare support to somebody else and then the alliance explodes in another goon coup.

The mechanics of alliance security have never been resolved sufficiently to make it worth the time pursuing that route.

Quote:
Also, do you have any evidence beyond that one post by a nobody that Goons were demanding this change? Because I sure haven't, and despite asking for it for the last few days I have yet to see it.


Follow the money Cui bono?

Its not a hard mystery to uncover.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-06-16 15:30:45 UTC
A point to consider...

If the bean counters and upper management look at the numbers and conclude "Eve is growing", then why would they stop a lead developer who's fingers seem to be in all the pies from future growth?