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EVE Online: Inferno 1.1 to be deployed soon

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Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-06-18 05:29:38 UTC
Darek Castigatus wrote:

Apologies for ruining your bittervet pity party but just because you cant adapt to a new system doesnt mean everybody cant. And before you start throwing 'you're just a CCP fanboi' around I acknowledge there are still issues with the new UI but oh look, it seems that CCp have demonstrated theyre perfectly willing to keep at it as long as it takes to make all of it work.


Except a lot of it still doesn't work, or at least not to expectations of some of the player base. My expectations are that it will cover the functionality and ease of use as the last one. the way windows work now, and the way that buttons interact with widows, and the way that the first iteration came onto tranquility were not polished to useability ingame.

Already they have said that they are wanting to move away from their heavy cycle of fixing the UI to be Game useable. Many of the patch things that you see were first brought up while this was on the test server. So what you see now, all this UI fixing, is back-peddling from their previous stand point of "you are simply too stupid to use this" when the issues were originally brought up. Back on Sisi.

This is one of the bigger problems with a lot of the people that wonder why there is such bitter vet syndrome going on, and why others posts like yours get flames. The people who tested this on Sisi, asked about these same issues, were told they are .... , and everyone else would love them, then pushed it onto tranquility, where people simply did not love it, are now bittervet-ing all over the place.
and then you come out of the woodwork to prop-up a sorta finished product because you weren't there for the betas- beta.

It is interesting to me all the people that do come out and say they like this new UI, always have another issue to add to the list of UI tweaks. and have a really hard time defining what exactly they do like about it (the new UI). If you have something then please by all means explain it. I already know the list of things i dont like about it.

and thats not even sarcastic or anything, i really am curious about it.

Hakaru Ishiwara ->
I was asking if it was a bug or a feature, or if i was not using it in its intended function. I have no idea which parts of useability CCP devs have decided are bugs or features. And at this point im not really sure they do either. A lot of it seems to be seat of the pants flying.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
MaverickScot
Diminishing Returns.
#42 - 2012-06-18 06:51:40 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Darek Castigatus wrote:

Apologies for ruining your bittervet pity party but just because you cant adapt to a new system doesnt mean everybody cant. And before you start throwing 'you're just a CCP fanboi' around I acknowledge there are still issues with the new UI but oh look, it seems that CCp have demonstrated theyre perfectly willing to keep at it as long as it takes to make all of it work.


Except a lot of it still doesn't work, or at least not to expectations of some of the player base. My expectations are that it will cover the functionality and ease of use as the last one. the way windows work now, and the way that buttons interact with widows, and the way that the first iteration came onto tranquility were not polished to useability ingame.

Already they have said that they are wanting to move away from their heavy cycle of fixing the UI to be Game useable. Many of the patch things that you see were first brought up while this was on the test server. So what you see now, all this UI fixing, is back-peddling from their previous stand point of "you are simply too stupid to use this" when the issues were originally brought up. Back on Sisi.

This is one of the bigger problems with a lot of the people that wonder why there is such bitter vet syndrome going on, and why others posts like yours get flames. The people who tested this on Sisi, asked about these same issues, were told they are .... , and everyone else would love them, then pushed it onto tranquility, where people simply did not love it, are now bittervet-ing all over the place.
and then you come out of the woodwork to prop-up a sorta finished product because you weren't there for the betas- beta.

It is interesting to me all the people that do come out and say they like this new UI, always have another issue to add to the list of UI tweaks. and have a really hard time defining what exactly they do like about it (the new UI). If you have something then please by all means explain it. I already know the list of things i dont like about it.

and thats not even sarcastic or anything, i really am curious about it.

Hakaru Ishiwara ->
I was asking if it was a bug or a feature, or if i was not using it in its intended function. I have no idea which parts of useability CCP devs have decided are bugs or features. And at this point im not really sure they do either. A lot of it seems to be seat of the pants flying.



This and

I would not flame anyone in the forums it's not my style. However I would like to ask Darek Castigatus how do you feel about having to adapt when it, in my opinion, was not needed or required. Also does adapting mean looking for ways to resolve problems with the current UI which is at best a beta. Would you have been content with the previous system or did you post and pertition CCP in the forums for a much improved UI?
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#43 - 2012-06-18 09:33:32 UTC
Since you asked nicely kusum Im happy to point out what i like.

1. I like the fact that everything i could need opens with a single click instead of me having to hunt around the screen for each button every time i need it.

2. I like the fact i dont have to have a dozen individual windows cluttering up my screen space to transfer items between cans in corp hangers and my ships

3. i like the filter system - it makes finding specific items in my hanger childs play and its so similar to the filters for searching the market I'm surprised so many people have issues with it - this isnt a dig at you but ive found a lot of people I've talked to who had issues with this simply didnt realise it works pretty much the same way.

TBH I probably was too harsh in my initial post, im just getting a bit sick of the endless flood of baseless whining about petty **** when this time people actually do have a point.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
disasteur
disasterous industries
#44 - 2012-06-18 09:37:16 UTC
MaverickScot wrote:
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Darek Castigatus wrote:

Apologies for ruining your bittervet pity party but just because you cant adapt to a new system doesnt mean everybody cant. And before you start throwing 'you're just a CCP fanboi' around I acknowledge there are still issues with the new UI but oh look, it seems that CCp have demonstrated theyre perfectly willing to keep at it as long as it takes to make all of it work.


Except a lot of it still doesn't work, or at least not to expectations of some of the player base. My expectations are that it will cover the functionality and ease of use as the last one. the way windows work now, and the way that buttons interact with widows, and the way that the first iteration came onto tranquility were not polished to useability ingame.

Already they have said that they are wanting to move away from their heavy cycle of fixing the UI to be Game useable. Many of the patch things that you see were first brought up while this was on the test server. So what you see now, all this UI fixing, is back-peddling from their previous stand point of "you are simply too stupid to use this" when the issues were originally brought up. Back on Sisi.

This is one of the bigger problems with a lot of the people that wonder why there is such bitter vet syndrome going on, and why others posts like yours get flames. The people who tested this on Sisi, asked about these same issues, were told they are .... , and everyone else would love them, then pushed it onto tranquility, where people simply did not love it, are now bittervet-ing all over the place.
and then you come out of the woodwork to prop-up a sorta finished product because you weren't there for the betas- beta.

It is interesting to me all the people that do come out and say they like this new UI, always have another issue to add to the list of UI tweaks. and have a really hard time defining what exactly they do like about it (the new UI). If you have something then please by all means explain it. I already know the list of things i dont like about it.

and thats not even sarcastic or anything, i really am curious about it.

Hakaru Ishiwara ->
I was asking if it was a bug or a feature, or if i was not using it in its intended function. I have no idea which parts of useability CCP devs have decided are bugs or features. And at this point im not really sure they do either. A lot of it seems to be seat of the pants flying.



This and

I would not flame anyone in the forums it's not my style. However I would like to ask Darek Castigatus how do you feel about having to adapt when it, in my opinion, was not needed or required. Also does adapting mean looking for ways to resolve problems with the current UI which is at best a beta. Would you have been content with the previous system or did you post and pertition CCP in the forums for a much improved UI?



This and....


i would like to thank CCP for bringing in the new UI it has been the greatest thing ever, it has made my life a whole lot better

so thank you ccp to cure me from my EVE adiction, so i can now spend so much free time with my wife and kids three thumb up!!
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#45 - 2012-06-18 09:49:07 UTC
MaverickScot wrote:
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Darek Castigatus wrote:

Apologies for ruining your bittervet pity party but just because you cant adapt to a new system doesnt mean everybody cant. And before you start throwing 'you're just a CCP fanboi' around I acknowledge there are still issues with the new UI but oh look, it seems that CCp have demonstrated theyre perfectly willing to keep at it as long as it takes to make all of it work.


Except a lot of it still doesn't work, or at least not to expectations of some of the player base. My expectations are that it will cover the functionality and ease of use as the last one. the way windows work now, and the way that buttons interact with widows, and the way that the first iteration came onto tranquility were not polished to useability ingame.

Already they have said that they are wanting to move away from their heavy cycle of fixing the UI to be Game useable. Many of the patch things that you see were first brought up while this was on the test server. So what you see now, all this UI fixing, is back-peddling from their previous stand point of "you are simply too stupid to use this" when the issues were originally brought up. Back on Sisi.

This is one of the bigger problems with a lot of the people that wonder why there is such bitter vet syndrome going on, and why others posts like yours get flames. The people who tested this on Sisi, asked about these same issues, were told they are .... , and everyone else would love them, then pushed it onto tranquility, where people simply did not love it, are now bittervet-ing all over the place.
and then you come out of the woodwork to prop-up a sorta finished product because you weren't there for the betas- beta.

It is interesting to me all the people that do come out and say they like this new UI, always have another issue to add to the list of UI tweaks. and have a really hard time defining what exactly they do like about it (the new UI). If you have something then please by all means explain it. I already know the list of things i dont like about it.

and thats not even sarcastic or anything, i really am curious about it.

Hakaru Ishiwara ->
I was asking if it was a bug or a feature, or if i was not using it in its intended function. I have no idea which parts of useability CCP devs have decided are bugs or features. And at this point im not really sure they do either. A lot of it seems to be seat of the pants flying.



This and

I would not flame anyone in the forums it's not my style. However I would like to ask Darek Castigatus how do you feel about having to adapt when it, in my opinion, was not needed or required. Also does adapting mean looking for ways to resolve problems with the current UI which is at best a beta. Would you have been content with the previous system or did you post and pertition CCP in the forums for a much improved UI?


Bolded the part which is important here because in my opinion it was needed. Every single negative thing Ive read about eve that wasnt referencing one specific event always has the unintiutiveness and clunkyness of the UI high up on the list of things to complain about. Even if ive learned to use it and know all the shortcuts and workarounds how does that help john q newbie whos on the first day of his trial trying to work out how to do things??

Since i havent had any real issues with the new UI i couldnt really answer your second point but since you asked, yes i was ok with the previous UI, i knew how to use it and didnt follow any of the career paths where its an active hinderance. However since that same fact is true about the new UI as well its largely irrelevant.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
MaverickScot
Diminishing Returns.
#46 - 2012-06-18 10:37:20 UTC  |  Edited by: MaverickScot

Quoted Darek

"Bolded the part which is important here because in my opinion it was needed. Every single negative thing Ive read about eve that wasnt referencing one specific event always has the unintiutiveness and clunkyness of the UI high up on the list of things to complain about. Even if ive learned to use it and know all the shortcuts and workarounds how does that help john q newbie whos on the first day of his trial trying to work out how to do things??

Since i havent had any real issues with the new UI i couldnt really answer your second point but since you asked, yes i was ok with the previous UI, i knew how to use it and didnt follow any of the career paths where its an active hinderance. However since that same fact is true about the new UI as well its largely irrelevant."

Thanks for your point of view, it's interesting :)
Andy DelGardo
#47 - 2012-06-18 10:53:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Andy DelGardo
So there is still no option to filter out "empty" POS arrays/labs devisions? Why is adding such a option so damm hard?

I do not need to see 50 empty POS devisions, if i only interact with 10, but thx to the Tree-View this results in scrolling up/down all the time.

So again add a "hide empty devisions" option to the tree-view, this is not rocket science guys!


I also would prefer if the sort/filter setup is also saved in the tree-view for each individual container, leaf or at least tree-type. If u wan't me to use the tree-view than don't just use a global setup, but save this per container, like in a separated window or yet again make an option so we can choose how it should behave!
May O'Neez
Flying Blacksmiths
#48 - 2012-06-18 11:53:44 UTC  |  Edited by: May O'Neez
Quote:
Removed the deprecated “Open Cargohold” option from the radial menu of your own ship.


Could you confirm it is the hold-click and NOT the one displayed on the hud, please ?
The HUD button is very convenient to drag/drop stuff from cans. The "loot all" option is not systematic, and opening inventory window on side is sometimes not an option (and not possible, either ...)

BTW I would really, really appreciate that when we click on Neocom's inventory window, it opens a new window and not just refocus on the secondary inventory windows we spare to watch our loot / market stuff / ... this is very irritating. Because of that, currently I have no choice but use a single window, which is not bearable when managing large assets between containers.
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2012-06-18 14:18:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaru Ishiwara
Kusum Fawn wrote:
*snip*
Hakaru Ishiwara ->
I was asking if it was a bug or a feature, or if i was not using it in its intended function. I have no idea which parts of useability CCP devs have decided are bugs or features. And at this point im not really sure they do either. A lot of it seems to be seat of the pants flying.
Understood. Admittedly, I was "bittervet'ing" as I completely agree that CCP does not appear to have a defined plan for moving the revised Inventory into a usable and completed state.

I have been asking repeatedly since the inital testing on Sisi for CCP to provide guidance on how to most efficiently / effectively use the new UI as that might go a long way towards helping bitter vets (aka long-term and highly invested customers) adapt and adopt, but CCP has not even acknowledged the idea.

CCP's complete silence on how to best use this revised UI promotes the perception that they haven't a clue or any sort of guiding plan to make this an excellent addition to the EVE subscribers' UX. Why?

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
VLAD VIRONS
Evolve Xcellence
#50 - 2012-06-18 23:01:47 UTC  |  Edited by: VLAD VIRONS
about the bots, don't be so naive, they overwrote it after the inferno patch and u can see plenty of them if not lazy.

at graphic designers: Gents, u really think these new camouflage skins looks good on ships like minmatar, or even raven, or even that new hookbil from sisi? I mean if its used for gallente or amarr, or like machariel its great, but otherway u just make it like pixel soup and all model details getiing lost by that.

o7
Mioelnir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2012-06-18 23:08:08 UTC
So, going by the delay notice ingame you prepared a patch, you found an issue with it, and you pulled the patch to fix it first?

Who are you and what have you done with CCP?
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#52 - 2012-06-19 01:08:10 UTC
Jonuts wrote:
That's fine if you want to get rid of bots. Right now though, as an anti-bot measure


Bots don't "click" and if you really want to get rid of those all you need is daily update on numbers and some other easy stuff form.

It's more about anti-fun, anti-practical, anti-functional and anti-player stuff.
Try some large fleet someday and then try to open your cargo just after/before jumping gates/jump bridge or even titans bridge to see how awesome it is. Just an advice, set your video settings at lowest if you don't want to experiment repeated crashes on top of grid lag/environment lag blahblahblah.

Seriously, it's awful in performance and we lost a ll the functionality of older system making it nice mocking attitude to our feedback.

How can you guys expect us to take your feedback enthusiasm seriously when we see what you do with? (some)

brb
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2012-06-19 01:19:00 UTC
Mioelnir wrote:
So, going by the delay notice ingame you prepared a patch, you found an issue with it, and you pulled the patch to fix it first?

Who are you and what have you done with CCP?
Perhaps CCP's QA Dept finally obtained the authority to delay code migration to Tranquility?

The only other reason it could be is that Hilmar and / or CCP Soundwaffe's egos were at risk of being deflated -- neither of whom could survive such an event.

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
Reiisha
#54 - 2012-06-19 02:33:13 UTC
So the wardec changes will go on despite the rather... vocal criticism?

This patch feels like a way to pander to bullies more than anything else. Any larger alliance can whip any smaller alliance into submission easily simply by wardeccing them. Wasn't Inferno supposed to fix this very issue?

New alliances, and by extension new players, get shafted here big time. They get literally no opion to defend themselves.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
David Toviyah
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2012-06-19 08:10:48 UTC  |  Edited by: David Toviyah
Reiisha wrote:
So the wardec changes will go on despite the rather... vocal criticism?

Next time please take the two minutes that it takes to inform yourself on this “issue”. What they will introduce with this patch are clothes which they’ve had already designed in 2011 so there is absolutely no developer time that gets “wasted” as a result of this change. They only waited so long to release them because crybabies like you would have screamed bloody murder had they introduced them back then. Apparently the wait was futile though because it seems like there are still some persistent specimen of your unpleasant kind left.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#56 - 2012-06-19 08:12:45 UTC
The way to fix most of the issues is REALLY REALLY simple:


1. Bring back the buttons for Ships, Items, Corp hanger. Make these open in a separate windows with tree view minimised as default, and remember the position.

2. Bring back the right click options on ships for opening drone bay, cargo bay, ore hold, ship maintenance bay, fuel bay, corp hanger. Make these open in a separate windows with tree view minimised as default, and remember the position. It is REALLY not a bad thing to have right click options that improve functionality. Remove the redundant ones, like undock etc.

3. When in space, make the cargo icon open the cargo bay only (Cargo icon = cargo bay << simple). Make this open in a separate window with tree view minimised as default, and remember the position. If we want the inventory, we can use the icon in the Neocom, that’s what it is for (Inventory icon = inventory << again simple)

4. Give the option to hide the ISK value. It takes up space and is a gimmick that is only used rarely.

5. Reduce the size of the volume bar in containers back to what it used to be, it is too big and takes up space.


These are very simple fixes, which would go a long way to reducing the disgust and contempt people have for CCP at the moment, I cannot believe that they would be difficult to implement. So, please put your ego’s away and just do it.



Who the hell came up with this primary and secondary window idea ? For the love of God please wise up and just do what is necessary to make this somewhere near useable and not come up with these half assed ideas.
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2012-06-19 08:48:57 UTC
Rommiee wrote:
The way to fix most of the issues is REALLY REALLY simple:


1. Bring back the buttons for Ships, Items, Corp hanger. Make these open in a separate windows with tree view minimised as default, and remember the position.

2. Bring back the right click options on ships for opening drone bay, cargo bay, ore hold, ship maintenance bay, fuel bay, corp hanger. Make these open in a separate windows with tree view minimised as default, and remember the position. It is REALLY not a bad thing to have right click options that improve functionality. Remove the redundant ones, like undock etc.

3. When in space, make the cargo icon open the cargo bay only (Cargo icon = cargo bay << simple). Make this open in a separate window with tree view minimised as default, and remember the position. If we want the inventory, we can use the icon in the Neocom, that’s what it is for (Inventory icon = inventory << again simple)

4. Give the option to hide the ISK value. It takes up space and is a gimmick that is only used rarely.

5. Reduce the size of the volume bar in containers back to what it used to be, it is too big and takes up space.


These are very simple fixes, which would go a long way to reducing the disgust and contempt people have for CCP at the moment, I cannot believe that they would be difficult to implement. So, please put your ego’s away and just do it.



Who the hell came up with this primary and secondary window idea ? For the love of God please wise up and just do what is necessary to make this somewhere near useable and not come up with these half assed ideas.


Agreed. After two inventory cosmetic fix, the UI is still crap and nothing changed to right direction.
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
#58 - 2012-06-19 09:39:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Galmas
Again nothing mentioned about making the damn quick filter stick when you switch "tabs" in a corp hangar (at a pos). How hard can it possibly be to do that... It would really make that hole inventory mass you folks created a lot less painful. Sad
What pain you wonder? Read the wall of text below if you need a reminder.

Cheers
Gal

edit:
seriously, go to your test servers, randomly put like 1000 items into each "tab" of a corp hangar at a pos (that has a couple of corp hangars and ship maint bays online around you) and do f...ing try to fit a f... ing space ship.

You done? Good, now do it again.

Done again? How do you feel now? Like paying for your accounts again next month?

What is going on regarding this inventory system atm some might call a "shitstrom"... Only thing i know is that noone in our corp does have a clue why it had to be changed over a lot of other ideas one could have for EVE.

One thing i know for sure is that a couple of days ago one of our corp members accidentally removed all fuel from the POS fuel bay while trying to fuel his capital ship and loged of before any fuel warning mail arrived anywhere. 50% blame there goes to him beeing careless and 50% to the new inventory system that made it possible to accientally access the pos fuel bay instead of having the ships fuel bay in a nice window and the corp hangar in another nice window and the pos fuel bay not showing up at f...ing all.

We were just extremely lucky noone came by and took the dozens of billion isk in that tower. Thats a lot of a small corp, you know.

Please get your egos sorted and get rid of this inventory system as is please. I am sure the code you wrote there is able to provide a more fool prove solution as the old system was. I am a fool, but i have never accidentally droped that many icons into the wrong hangars and never had a harder time to find them again since 2006 when i started playing. I tried to get used to that system and i play quite a lot and we are moving to another system atm... it is just not coming to me this inventory system.
disasteur
disasterous industries
#59 - 2012-06-19 09:44:46 UTC
David Toviyah wrote:
Reiisha wrote:
So the wardec changes will go on despite the rather... vocal criticism?

Next time please take the two minutes that it takes to inform yourself on this “issue”. What they will introduce with this patch are clothes which they’ve had already designed in 2011 so there is absolutely no developer time that gets “wasted” as a result of this change. They only waited so long to release them because crybabies like you would have screamed bloody murder had they introduced them back then. Apparently the wait was futile though because it seems like there are still some persistent specimen of your unpleasant kind left.


i would not dare to stop you from giving comments, but i would choose my words better next time, cus you now sound
like a racist, also since it seems you know a lot more then your char gives away, use your main next time if you have the balls for it
David Toviyah
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2012-06-19 11:23:43 UTC  |  Edited by: David Toviyah
What in that post makes me sound like a racist? Oversensitive political correctness much? Or just plain old stupidity?

Also, this is my main character. I have played for less than a month and yet despite that I am more informed than Reiisha. That speaks volumes of her knowledgeability, don’t you think? And of yours, too, should you already deem having that little information astounding.

PRO TIP: Always read the devs’ announcements in their entirety. Checking out their blog once in a while might help, too.