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Question about ORE Frigate skill.
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Dave Stark
#1 - 2012-06-14 15:25:09 UTC
Quote:
Due to how nested skill requirements work, players who already have the mining barge skill trained WON'T need to train the ORE frigate skill to keep flying their Covetor for example.


does this mean we won't have to train it, or that we'll be given the skill at the relevant rank (presumably rank IV as a prerequisite for mining barges)?
Aulx-Gao Ekanon
#2 - 2012-06-14 15:36:14 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Quote:
Due to how nested skill requirements work, players who already have the mining barge skill trained WON'T need to train the ORE frigate skill to keep flying their Covetor for example.


does this mean we won't have to train it, or that we'll be given the skill at the relevant rank (presumably rank IV as a prerequisite for mining barges)?


I imagine we'll be given the skill. It wouldn't make sense to 'not need it'.

_Naughty by nature, wicked by choice. _
Dave Stark
#3 - 2012-06-14 15:37:03 UTC
Aulx-Gao Ekanon wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Quote:
Due to how nested skill requirements work, players who already have the mining barge skill trained WON'T need to train the ORE frigate skill to keep flying their Covetor for example.


does this mean we won't have to train it, or that we'll be given the skill at the relevant rank (presumably rank IV as a prerequisite for mining barges)?


I imagine we'll be given the skill. It wouldn't make sense to 'not need it'.


i assumed as much, but they worded it differently to their explanation to the dessy/bc change so i figured i'd ask.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-06-14 16:34:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Aulx-Gao Ekanon wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Quote:
Due to how nested skill requirements work, players who already have the mining barge skill trained WON'T need to train the ORE frigate skill to keep flying their Covetor for example.


does this mean we won't have to train it, or that we'll be given the skill at the relevant rank (presumably rank IV as a prerequisite for mining barges)?


I imagine we'll be given the skill. It wouldn't make sense to 'not need it'.
Actually, I'm fairly certain CCP would NEVER hand out SP for free, unless they gave it to everyone, equally. On the other hand, it makes perfect sense that you wouldn't need the skill.

On your prerequisites list for a mining barge, you'd see that it requires you have a particular level of the mining barges skill, and under that would be the prerequisites to learn mining barge. You have to meet those lower requirements to train mining barges skill, but not to fly a mining barge. Say, you lose the skill later somehow, it's okay, you don't need it to fly the barge. But you'll have to train it up at some point to be able to train the barge skill higher.

Now the exhumers skill will rely on the barges skill and not the ORE frigate skill. So if your barges skill is high enough, you won't need the ORE frigate skill to train enxumers.

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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#5 - 2012-06-14 19:46:19 UTC
No, you won't be given it.


The only time prerequisites for a skill matter, are when you inject it. Not when you train it, or use it.

A Heavy Assault ship doesn't need you to know Assault ships to sit in it. Just to inject the skill.

Now, there aren't many situations where this can arise, but it's the way it works.

Woo! CSM XI!

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Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#6 - 2012-06-14 22:22:28 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
No, you won't be given it.


The only time prerequisites for a skill matter, are when you inject it. Not when you train it, or use it.

A Heavy Assault ship doesn't need you to know Assault ships to sit in it. Just to inject the skill.

Now, there aren't many situations where this can arise, but it's the way it works.


This. It will just be another skill to train, but you'll only have to train it if you want to fly the frigate in the first place.
Dave Stark
#7 - 2012-06-14 22:35:59 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
No, you won't be given it.


The only time prerequisites for a skill matter, are when you inject it. Not when you train it, or use it.

A Heavy Assault ship doesn't need you to know Assault ships to sit in it. Just to inject the skill.

Now, there aren't many situations where this can arise, but it's the way it works.


This. It will just be another skill to train, but you'll only have to train it if you want to fly the frigate in the first place.


well if it's a x1 skill like the other frigates, i might just for ***** and giggles.
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-06-17 03:10:46 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
No, you won't be given it.


The only time prerequisites for a skill matter, are when you inject it. Not when you train it, or use it.

A Heavy Assault ship doesn't need you to know Assault ships to sit in it. Just to inject the skill.

Now, there aren't many situations where this can arise, but it's the way it works.


This. It will just be another skill to train, but you'll only have to train it if you want to fly the frigate in the first place.



Or if you're OCD. And really who isn't in this game?
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-06-17 12:13:04 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
No, you won't be given it.


The only time prerequisites for a skill matter, are when you inject it. Not when you train it, or use it.

A Heavy Assault ship doesn't need you to know Assault ships to sit in it. Just to inject the skill.

Now, there aren't many situations where this can arise, but it's the way it works.


So, you try to say that I can fly Vargur if I have Marauders trained but only have Minmatar Battleship 4? What?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#10 - 2012-06-17 17:01:13 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
No, you won't be given it.


The only time prerequisites for a skill matter, are when you inject it. Not when you train it, or use it.

A Heavy Assault ship doesn't need you to know Assault ships to sit in it. Just to inject the skill.

Now, there aren't many situations where this can arise, but it's the way it works.


So, you try to say that I can fly Vargur if I have Marauders trained but only have Minmatar Battleship 4? What?



I'm not saying that.

The Vargur has a requirement of Minmatar Battleship 5, /and/ Marauders 1. (as you can learn Marauders, without leaning Minmatar battleship 5)

But you /could/ fly it if you didn't have, say, Minmatar Cruiser 4. (for some reason)


When the changes come for Battlecruisers and Destroyers, you'd be able to fly it without Minmatar Battlecruiser 4.


It's only the top skill within each of the prerequisites that's actually checked.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Marsan
#11 - 2012-06-17 19:53:01 UTC
Last time CCP discussed this sort of thing for racial battle cruiser skill they said they were going to give you skills in all racial BC skills that you had the cruiser skills for. I can total see them giving out Ore Frigate 4 to anyone who can fly the more advanced ships. After all we are talking 3-4 days worth of skill points here at most to get to level 4. They've handed out skills and skill points before.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-06-17 20:45:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Lunkwill Khashour
They don't need to hand out SP on this one. A skill nested in the skill tree required for some ship is not actually required to fly the ship.

e.g. You don't need caldari frigate IV to fly a Caracal. You do need Caldari cruiser and that get that, you'll need Caldari frig but if you got Caldari cruiser some other way, that's fine aswell.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#13 - 2012-06-17 21:33:02 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
No, you won't be given it.


The only time prerequisites for a skill matter, are when you inject it. Not when you train it, or use it.

A Heavy Assault ship doesn't need you to know Assault ships to sit in it. Just to inject the skill.

Now, there aren't many situations where this can arise, but it's the way it works.


So, you try to say that I can fly Vargur if I have Marauders trained but only have Minmatar Battleship 4? What?


No, but you can fly a Carrier if you have Racial Carriers 1, and only BS 4. You can field FBs if you have FBs 1, and only Fighters 4.

These things happen due to the way SP loss works.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#14 - 2012-06-18 00:00:36 UTC
Just as a hint, the real reason for the whole tree not mattering, only the top level? It's a /hell/ of a lot simpler to code, rather than checking the entire tree every time Blink

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#15 - 2012-06-18 00:17:33 UTC
It means you don't have to get it; you don't have to train it; and you won't be given it.

It might be needed if you want to increase your barge skill, but they haven't been all that clear about it and I can't recall ever seeing anyone having tested it.

It is a prerequisite for training the barge skill, but you don't need the frigate skill itself to fly any of the barges. Since you will keep your barge skill, you will be able to keep flying the barges at the same level as before. It's that “required to train” bit that causes some confusion and raises the question if you need to get the frigate skill before you can train barges from IV to V, shouldn't you have done so already before the skills are revamped.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#16 - 2012-06-18 03:29:39 UTC
Tippia wrote:
It means you don't have to get it; you don't have to train it; and you won't be given it.

It might be needed if you want to increase your barge skill, but they haven't been all that clear about it and I can't recall ever seeing anyone having tested it.

It is a prerequisite for training the barge skill, but you don't need the frigate skill itself to fly any of the barges. Since you will keep your barge skill, you will be able to keep flying the barges at the same level as before. It's that “required to train” bit that causes some confusion and raises the question if you need to get the frigate skill before you can train barges from IV to V, shouldn't you have done so already before the skills are revamped.


I've never seen someone being locked out from training a skill already injected. All the prereqs have to be is present when the skill is injected.

In theory, you could get a Titan V character with no more than 900k other SP.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon