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With the planned changes to Mining ships, can we finally fix jetcans?

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Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#21 - 2012-06-14 16:41:00 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
no, the way i understand it is that the largest cargo bay amongst the exhumers will be the same as a jetcan, therefore the ship with max yield will have an ore bay smaller than a jetcan, along with the fact that i mine 2+ jetcans at a time means i'll still be jet can mining.

so let's not **** up jet cans please.


jet cans ARE ****ed up, thats the point

You are seeing jet cans as not having drawbacks.

All they do is let you pile items in non-portable holding bubbles.
They do not move themselves.
They pop after two hours.
They are a target for theft.

The big ore hold barge / exhumer will be more self sufficient.
Anything needing to use a jet can will be effectively limited to group only, unless extra risk and effort accepted to compensate.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Michael Loney
Skullspace Industries
#22 - 2012-06-14 16:41:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Loney
Quote:
Does it take less than 2 mins to fill up a Hulk or Covetors hold? (I really dont know this one)


Yes.

The Jet can timer is 3 minutes, a cycle of strip miners is 3 minutes. It would be tight, but add in an Orca bonus and the time drops to 124sec, or 2 minutes. Lots of fleet op based mining uses jet cans and this would make it slow and cumbersome.

FYI One cycle on a Hulk is ~80% of hold size, so cant hold 2 cycles
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-06-14 16:46:45 UTC
well, in any case i think that jet cans need to be looked at, because i think its currently a lazy response to in-space cargo that doesnt sit well with the rest of EVE. (i.e. producing a can out of thin air)

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Dave stark
#24 - 2012-06-14 16:51:55 UTC
Michael Loney wrote:
Quote:
Does it take less than 2 mins to fill up a Hulk or Covetors hold? (I really dont know this one)


Yes.

The Jet can timer is 3 minutes, a cycle of strip miners is 3 minutes. It would be tight, but add in an Orca bonus and the time drops to 124sec, or 2 minutes. Lots of fleet op based mining uses jet cans and this would make it slow and cumbersome.

FYI One cycle on a Hulk is ~80% of hold size, so cant hold 2 cycles


base ore hold on an hulk is 8000 if memory serves.

with 2 mlu IIs and t2 crystals and exhumer V you're pulling in about 1300m3 per strip per cycle unbonused, so about 6 mins to fill a hulk.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-06-14 16:52:09 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
I'll keep this short;

Miners are the biggest users of jetcans, and use them to increase their cargo capacity beyond the ships original design

The new ships focus on differing cargo capacity depending on which ship you choose to fly

Keeping the current jetcan 'facility' in its current form sidesteps this slightly. The current capacity of jetcans is laughable, being the same no matter what the size of cargohold the originating ship had.

I propose that jetcans be 'shrinkwrapped' to whatever it is being jettisoned, so the size of the jetcan perfectly contains what was jettisoned with no 'extra capacity'.

(Note, i am not campaigning to remove jetcans, or even their use in mining, just the unexplanably large capacity of them)

feel free to discuss

(And no, this wasnt posted in Features and Ideas, because thats where good idea go to die)



I really don't believe jets cans need to change. Anchorable cans drive me crazy in mining belts though.. can mining is not the idea way to mine anyway. I have a bigger problem with the lack of tabs on the corp hanger window of the orca in space... or no ore hanger item in the pull down menu of the orca in space.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#26 - 2012-06-14 16:56:32 UTC
what is the exact problem CCP is trying to fix here again breaking jet cans in the same time?
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-06-14 16:57:28 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
what is the exact problem CCP is trying to fix here again breaking jet cans in the same time?


tl:dr jetcans are too big

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
AFK Hauler
State War Academy
#28 - 2012-06-14 17:01:34 UTC
No -

I use Jetcans to transfer large cargo volume from PI to transport ships.
I would only accept this proposal if we get the feature to jetcan materials directly from the planetary customs office into space.

Jetcan have more utility than those you described, so please don't interfere with my game.
servellious
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-06-14 17:06:25 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
no, the way i understand it is that the largest cargo bay amongst the exhumers will be the same as a jetcan, therefore the ship with max yield will have an ore bay smaller than a jetcan, along with the fact that i mine 2+ jetcans at a time means i'll still be jet can mining.

so let's not **** up jet cans please.


jet cans ARE ****ed up, thats the point


Only in your head. Your trying to make an arguement that has no real basis for change other then "because I want it that way".
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#30 - 2012-06-14 17:06:37 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
tl:dr jetcans are too big
Nah. What you're fixing is the limited size of the jetcans, which causes issues with stuff like trying to salvage freighters…

If cans always conformed to the size of what is being jettisoned (and made them take-only), they could remove the upper size limit for jet cans while still allowing for the transfer of stuff from one ship to the next.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-06-14 17:09:13 UTC
I still maintain my position that magically spawning a temporary container that is larger than all but a handful of the 'real' containers out of thin air is something worth looking at improving from a gameplay perspective

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
servellious
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-06-14 17:13:11 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
I still maintain my position that magically spawning a temporary container that is larger than all but a handful of the 'real' containers out of thin air is something worth looking at improving from a gameplay perspective


Its not magic, and if you actually read the replys here you would know that jet cans are plastic like, in that they are able to fit onboard a ship until needed and expanded. I think it even states this in the lore.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-06-14 17:16:25 UTC
servellious wrote:
Skippermonkey wrote:
I still maintain my position that magically spawning a temporary container that is larger than all but a handful of the 'real' containers out of thin air is something worth looking at improving from a gameplay perspective


Its not magic, and if you actually read the replys here you would know that jet cans are plastic like, in that they are able to fit onboard a ship until needed and expanded. I think it even states this in the lore.


The long and short of it is you are placing cargo in a container that was made for you at zero cost and no preparation or forward planning. That doesnt sound like the rest of EVE at all to me.

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
strenif
Perkone
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-06-14 17:17:32 UTC  |  Edited by: strenif
To the OP I agree with your overall point, but consider the new ORE mining frig. With the change you are suggesting new miners would have a much larger barrier to surmount to be effective. Also it would kill the mining battleship (I'm not opposed to this per say but it is something to be aware of). A lot of 0.0 miners have battleship tank the belt rats rather then kill them, the most common way to do this is with a mining Rohk. The Rohk can tank the rats and still be an effective mining platform (it actuly outperforms a Retriever) but needs to empty it's cargo every 30 seconds.

Yes Jet cans are crap, but if you plan to 'bring the jetcan into line' you'll need to provide a replacement for the roles EvE players have used them for.
Deitis Surtic
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-06-14 18:16:34 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
no, the way i understand it is that the largest cargo bay amongst the exhumers will be the same as a jetcan, therefore the ship with max yield will have an ore bay smaller than a jetcan, along with the fact that i mine 2+ jetcans at a time means i'll still be jet can mining.

so let's not **** up jet cans please.


+1, kind of a dumb idea on the OP's part.
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