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The Amarr factional war is over.

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SaorAlba
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-06-14 12:36:03 UTC
It's the Amarr who are the slaves.

Yes you read it right. We, the Amarr are the real slaves. We are kept on a tight leash

only to open a new farm ground by taking a system for the Minmatar to harvest.
The Amarr have so few systems left that we under the current game mechanics we can't recover.

So what is left for the Amarr?

- 24th LP shop is dead. Nothing there is worth buying anymore since there are no Exclusive
24th items to get. This means I can get an navy slicer cheaper in Jita then I can get it
from my own shop!
- Plexing for LP is therefore worthless. If you do go out plexing you are mostly splitting up rewards
as the mediums and majors can't be soloed by the Amarr.
- Level 4 Faction war missions are also worthless. You can't pickup enough of
them due the loss of many systems with an l4 in it, and you can't dock to speak with the
agent.
- Plexing for tags is the only thing left. Again you find you self fighting for bones and
then you have to make it back to that special place where you are allowed to dock. Only
the medium and large are worth doing here.

To be honest. Any Amarr plexing now is a fool. Every system you take back yields the tards
another 20 bil. If you must plex then plex there key systems wich they wanne keep and will
deplex or your doing it wrong.
So what should we do. I think we should give up all our systems. We should fall back to
empire space. Let the Tards have it all.
We generate not enough income to sustain the habbit. We have no appeal to anybody coming
from outside. Tard numbers are allready skyrocketing since every farmer with half a brain
is joining them. Let the Amarr tard war die. When they have all our systems they can run
l4 missions in there stealth bombers 24/7. Fine with me, since CCP is just scratching
there asses anyway. The quicker we give it up the sooner the fix. Let it all go and lay
back. You can still do pvp. You can still dock in Amarr space.

Amarr victor, and give another 20 bil to the enemy F00Ls. Wake TF up.

Alba, over and outOops
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-06-14 12:43:44 UTC
normally i would be tempted to write some poignant variation of 'man the fuck up'. in this case though, this would be absolutely inappropriate as the OP is factually right about pretty much everything he said. the only valid reason to plex for amarr is to allow your minmatar alt to counterplex.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Thomas Kreshant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-06-14 13:11:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Thomas Kreshant
Why would CCP fix it? War doesn't have to be 50/50 balanced as what would be the point of the whole system if one side couldn't beat another?

Anyhow as far as dropping systems, not plexing, moving to highsec and just fighting I guess I can't moan given that I've never moved to lowsec since we've joined FW and the whole LP thing mostly looks like working for a living which I'm not keen on anyhow.
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front - Reborn
#4 - 2012-06-14 13:51:50 UTC
Im glad, now you can fell how we have felt for years, though we dont force you to do anything.

Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
Jones Bones
Battle Toad Brigade
Ribbit.
#5 - 2012-06-14 13:54:48 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
normally i would be tempted to write some poignant variation of 'man the fuck up'. in this case though, this would be absolutely inappropriate as the OP is factually right about pretty much everything he said. the only valid reason to plex for amarr is to allow your minmatar alt to counterplex.


My Winmatar alts plex in Black Rise. It's utterly empty and you can afk them.
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#6 - 2012-06-14 14:04:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuehnelt
Although there's close competition, based on his dedication leading up to and in the aftermath of the patch, SaorAlba's the man who have should most have the names of systems in Devoid pinned to his chest. He just needed a few more in the militia who could recognize the names of those systems, back when you could take/decontest a system in one TZ and the bunker fight was consequently the most critical moment instead of the sideshow it is now.

So in respect for his post, this is (part of) what Faction Warfare needs in the next iteration:

1. Abolish the tier system; tie rewards and prices directly to warzone control. This does not mean "buff Amarr LP"; this means "buff improvements to warzone control". A single extra system under the flag, a single upgrade level to a single system, should matter, should be something worth seizing or denying the enemy. Better circumstances should be better; presently, they are not even neutral, but they are actually immediately worse for the 'benefiting' militia. Meanwhile, the 'harmed' militia - the militia that just lost the system, or that observed a newly hardened enemy system, is immediately benefited by this fact. Under the tier system you have to help your enemy every day with the hope in your heart of eventually finally hurting him in some way. It's ridiculous. It supports what SaorAlba says.

2. Make bunker fights not a sideshow again. I'm fuzzier about how you do this, but here's one obviously problematic way that you can work with: if a system goes vulnerable, and then is still not lost by DT, then after DT it will be only 20% contested. To defeat a massed enemy that was poised to seize a system of yours, this should be punctuated with a "**** you, this is ours." to the defeated, and not "*sigh* ... OK guys, remember to try to decontest this, it doesn't have to take us five whole days..." to the victors.

Does that make enough sense?
Thomas Kreshant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-06-14 14:20:10 UTC
It's not got anything to do with not giving a damn although I don't really care as my ships cost me 1.2 million ISK roughly

Soundwave said before inferno that if you lose you lose that's the way it's designed, seriously losing all our space is supposed to be painful if we're getting curb stomped then we can't expect to make money out of it.

Things I would balance are NPC's i.e. all NPC's should need to be killed and should web etc and I do I think the t1 pricing is probably too harsh and t5 to good but the general principle of lost your territory you're broke compared to the other guy is sound.
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#8 - 2012-06-14 14:30:37 UTC
Thinking maybe the Amarr shouldjust join the Caldari and come get some! Who needs 4 militias!

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#9 - 2012-06-14 14:32:19 UTC
Lord Ryan wrote:
Thinking maybe the Amarr should just join the Caldari and come get some! Who needs 4 militias!



P.S.

I thought TEST were going to help you win FW?

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#10 - 2012-06-14 14:35:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuehnelt
Thomas Kreshant wrote:
Soundwave said before inferno that if you lose you lose that's the way it's designed, seriously losing all our space is supposed to be painful if we're getting curb stomped then we can't expect to make money out of it.


Amarr never lost. They never got curb stomped. There was no Battle of Labapi. There was no Battle of Oyonata. There are no crippled veterans. There are no bleeding battle reports. There was nothing, just a memory of white static, and then the day dawned on a pre-lost, pre-curb stomped reality.

I hope this partially absurd way of explaining the situation saves me from having to seriously explain it; it comes to the same damned thing.

Anyway, we're here, and the present situation is that if you fight for Amarr then, in order to achieve your long-run goal of maybe one day making things better for your militia, you must toil every day to make things immediately better for the Minmatar militia. Does that strike you as odd? Hopefully it can strike you as odd independently of your sober understanding of Amarrian defeat.
Thomas Kreshant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-06-14 14:39:11 UTC
You should just quit and go do something else.
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front - Reborn
#12 - 2012-06-14 14:41:04 UTC
To be fair, there is one ajustment there serious needs to be added.

As alliances and corporations outside militia tend to help friends in FW, they ofcause gets a faction lose for killing militia. But who cares about this faction lose as they tend to be -10 anyway for doing missions in the systems they live in.

So to limit the numbers of outsiders the docking rule and faction warefare rules should count for everyone within EVE.

Saying im -10 to the Amarr empire (-6 with my skills added) and i support the minmatar faction warfare. Should i be allowed to dock i those stations. Im not allowed in Amarr Empire, and if i go there the navy will chase me down.

It would make Faction warfare worth more for everyone, and reduce the outside help for those who dont wana lower their faction standings.

Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#13 - 2012-06-14 14:41:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuehnelt
Ynot Eyob wrote:
As alliances and corporations outside militia tend to help friends in FW, they ofcause gets a faction lose for killing militia.


This is only true of the killing members of the NPC militia corps.

Thomas Kreshant wrote:
You should just quit and go do something else.


I did. I am. When you get around to noticing anything I've said about how FW can be improved, feel free to attempt some kind of reply to it.
Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
#14 - 2012-06-14 15:55:20 UTC
Thomas Kreshant wrote:
You should just quit and go do something else.



But he is so good at crying for help
SaorAlba
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-06-14 16:05:09 UTC
just took my coercer for a round trip. Nothing but LP farmers ( mostly Russian) speed tanking plexes. You move in and they move out. I got a decent belt rat to help crank up my sec. So much for pvp in plexes.
Funny while the coercer is this cool ship offering free pvp to anybody at a risk free. Thx ccp for this one med slot destroyer. I guess that if you want to **** up one of the four you made new it better be the Amarr one for giggles and traditation.
oh god, forbid me to ever fly up to Island because I might grap somebody at the throatUgh
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#16 - 2012-06-14 16:22:57 UTC

Now if I was the op I'd be a bit miffed with my fellow Amarrian FW brothers joining the TLF with alts and doing a lot of the plexing against the Amarrian effort. That kind of thing is not really helping your position in the warzone.

That said, I do support a rapid iteration on plex NPCs to bring a bit of balance to the warzone.

CCP have shown they can fix "problems" with the War System in a couple of weeks when it hurts the big guys. Lets see some attention through to FW on this scale and urgency.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Jones Bones
Battle Toad Brigade
Ribbit.
#17 - 2012-06-14 17:03:05 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:

Now if I was the op I'd be a bit miffed with my fellow Amarrian FW brothers joining the TLF with alts and doing a lot of the plexing against the Amarrian effort. That kind of thing is not really helping your position in the warzone.


It's primarily missions tbh. If you want to plex for isk the best bet is to use a TLIB alt in Black Rise running Caldari plexes. Same LP rewards, but less hassle and more systems.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#18 - 2012-06-14 17:29:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
tldr: amarr are not using the built in balance mechanics to their best effect. Specifically the only balance mechanic - no lp for defensive plexing.

SaorAlba wrote:
To be honest. Any Amarr plexing now is a fool. Every system you take back yields the tards
another 20 bil. If you must plex then plex there key systems wich they wanne keep and will
deplex or your doing it wrong.


This is where you are making a big mistake.

There are no "key" systems. You guys keep talking that way, because you might like to imagine there is, but there isn't.

Amarr can easilly turn this around. But we keep fighting in a way that is easilly contained by the minmatar in imaginary "key piplines." This means the few minmatar players willing to do the defensive work for no pay 1) have a limitted amount of ground to cover and 2) they will have protection of their blobs during certain time periods to do it. You guys flipping systems right next to their base are the ones feeding them lp.

That is not to say that we do not have good reason to only plex in the busy systems. We do that mainly for the pvp.

But if we really wanted to win this war we would get in our pve ships and start taking back water systems to vulnerable or close to vulnerable but not flipping them. Then once a large number are close like that we would do a push to flip the lot of them in a short time push.

Ammarr will have large amounts of lp that were saved up whereas the minmatar will have spent their lp. The economics will then swing to the amarr.

Its pretty straight forward strategy that is why I don't mind posting it here.

The problem is no one wants to do that much pve.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-06-14 17:53:38 UTC
Thomas Kreshant wrote:
Why would CCP fix it? War doesn't have to be 50/50 balanced as what would be the point of the whole system if one side couldn't beat another?

war also doesn't have to be entertaining but when i play a game i want to have fun. being outmatched to the point where anything you do benefits the enemy more than yourself is not fun. if this trend continues, there might not be any FW left because all players on one side throw the towel. CCP would not want that and neither would you.

P.S.: just fyi, blizzard had to merge WoW servers several times because on some of them, one side would become so much stronger that the other side literally disbanded and transferred away.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Ramon Sohei
The Florez Law Firm
#20 - 2012-06-14 17:55:10 UTC
You should ask Caldari for help. Oh wait, most of them coming back to Caldari now (except Wolfsbrigade).

Some Gallente corps helping Minmatar militia at the moment. Maybe Caldari needs to help you guys a little. Damar Rocarion is a good plexer. Maybe he can help you guys out. Blink
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