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New dev blog: Ship balancing summer update

First post First post
Severian Carnifex
#101 - 2012-06-14 13:43:46 UTC
If I am not wrong, there is one mining Cruiser for each race.
If you are making mining Frigates non-mining,
will you do the same with mining Cruisers?????
And, will we get mining ORE Cruiser too????? Big smile
Grog Drinker
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2012-06-14 13:43:58 UTC
Aemonchichi wrote:
well then ccp should clarify this

the hulk is designed to never come in a combat situation because its designed not to survie it - like that

not some vague "Protection" gibberish

how are we supposed to give feedback if ccp doesnt clarify what they are thinking when they talk like this

No one hunts hulks in null with alpha squads. A logi or ECM boat will be able to provide plenty of protection to get a small mining fleet out.
LUX Uls Xystus
#103 - 2012-06-14 13:44:50 UTC
THAT I call a good dev blog!

Well done in the mining department.

The first time I wish it to be xmas already ^^
Keras Authion
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#104 - 2012-06-14 13:45:18 UTC
This looks promising. Please keep us updated.

For the frigates the concepts look fine. Please give the bantam a new model as the current one is rather hauler-y. You might also want to add a logistic frigate later on to get those small remote reppers some use.

More destroyers are certainly welcome. For the cormorant I'd say the ship is fine but the chances to snipe are too difficult to arrange reliably. I'd also consider making a dedicated destroyer with a bonus to planetary bombardment rather than slapping it on existing ones. I'd see that the hull is too small to house enough systems for that many purposes and it's a chance to make another awesome hull line.

Miners were in destperate need of love. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. With the proposed changes there is now a real choice to be made between ships, which is a welcome change to the current covetor/hulk situation. And the new frigate looks just awesome. The art people really know their stuff.

Oh and the mining frigate picture has a typo in it. Topp on the top view.

This post was rated "C" for capsuleer.

Kari Trace
#105 - 2012-06-14 13:45:55 UTC
Good dev blog. This is the kind of stuff I Iike hearing about!

Side note: Frigate image: "TOPP" should be "TOP" :)

I like making things explode.

Kari Trace

Drew Solaert
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2012-06-14 13:45:56 UTC
CCP. I love you. That is all.

I lied :o

Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#107 - 2012-06-14 13:46:24 UTC
Inquisitor, Breacher, Kestrel, Tristan: missile based ships

Please do not do this. The tristan does not function as a missile boat, nor should it be forced into this role. It functions as a BLASTER BOAT and it does so damn well, with a lot of dps and a respectable tank. Nerfing it by making it use missiles would just be a a depressing. It does not make sense from an RP perspective, and it certainly does not make sense from any other perspective, except for CCP to say "hurr look all the races are the same now." Please, if you must change the tristan, give it more hybrid slots like you did with the merlin. Do not make it garbage with rockets.
None ofthe Above
#108 - 2012-06-14 13:46:31 UTC  |  Edited by: None ofthe Above
CCP Ytterbium, I've decided you need to be turned into a verb. Its the only way to describe the effect your missives have on me.

verb (used with object)
1. to interrupt the quiet, rest, peace, or order of; unsettle. Resulting in mixed emotions: Rage, fear, grudging respect, and perhaps a little awe.
2. to interfere with or interrupt the status quo; challenge preconceived notions; requiring thought and discussion to interpret

You ytterb me, sir.

Had to pick up my jaw from the floor a couple of times.

On specific points:

Frigates, Heavy Payload Delivery - Interesting. I think the specifics will have to be looked at. Several of the frigates might as well be new ships as they'll be changed so much (bantam comes to mind). Hard to say yet whether there will be any holes or unbalances left, but I think it will be very interesting to find out. Most of the Frigs will need bonus and slot increases to catch up to the Rifter class Tier for their role. I find myself looking forward to it.

Will Frigs also have the Level 1 to fly and level 4 to proceed to next hull size? Makes sense from a Tiercide standpoint.

FYI - I think maybe Caldari should nudge slightly more in the drone direction. In my experience they use drones a lot and fits very well into their racial combat doctrine. Snipers without drone support are not terribly viable. Not to edge out Gallente, but just a bit more than they have now. 5m3 drone bays on the frigs would be extremely handy, larger but sub-gallente (or match in cases where they already do) as you go higher.

Barge in on me - Uh wow. I don't disagree that the barges really needed a look at but am surprised you rethought the whole concept. It took a bit to wrap my head around your new plan, but I think it will work well. Retriever/Mackinaw may need some alterations to the model to not be incomprehensible with larger holds than the Covetor/Hulk. Finally, a reason to have a Procurer. The specializations for T2 for ice and gas mining will still apply? And kudos to the art Dept and yourself on the Mining Frig. Do want. Skill requirements change is huge. Covetor down from 5 to 1? Wow. I recently decided to give mining a try and really hated that train. I think that's a good change, but it'll take a bit to get used to.

Destroyer of Worlds - Gawd yes! Orbital bombardment is a bit of a surprise, but sure. I would think the larger class vessels would be more used for this, but it would make sense if the Destroyer was an entry level into orbital bombardment. Destroyer Missile Platform for Caldari!?!?!?! Do want! So needed. Drone for Gallente makes tons of sense. Coercer and Cormorant suffer for having only one mid or low slot, turns out to be pretty crippling, that would help if you fix.

Taking a look at the Aegis class of destroyer (defense) would be pretty interesting too. Granted that is probably a bit more complex than everything else you have here.

The Plan - Delaying the racial Destroyer and Battlecruiser shift till you actually get to those hulls makes sense. I am still not sure I am onboard with this idea, but am starting to think that in the scheme of things it may not suck too badly.

Tl;DR: I am ytterbed.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.

Severian Carnifex
#109 - 2012-06-14 13:46:32 UTC
And yea... i am hoping that Hulk will get EHP boost... because even in fleet you cant help it survive if you leave it like its now.
Like I said before, ORE ships are made of aluminum foil, and it just cant survive in space.
Even if you say its not for solo mining, you must make it so it can survive in space because now even the biggest fleet cant save if from alpha and it will pop in one volley.
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#110 - 2012-06-14 13:47:17 UTC
All looks good to me, looking forward to seeing my Breacher seeing some love.
JTK Fotheringham
Ducks in Outer Space
#111 - 2012-06-14 13:48:34 UTC
This looks like a jug of winsauce, ready to poured liberally on the neglected dish that is EVE mining.

I might even be tempted back to hear the droning noise again, we shall see. PirateBear
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2012-06-14 13:49:43 UTC
YAy!!! Awesome!!! that is more than expected!!!!

Xen Investments
#113 - 2012-06-14 13:49:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Maul555
I would just like to stop in and applaud the mining ship buffs and updates. This is perhaps the most significant update to industry since mining barges where introduced. I cant wait!

I need to ask though, what is going to happen to the ore specific boosts that each t2 variant currently gives. Skiffs are Mercoxit mining platforms. mackinaw are Ice mining platforms. And Hulks are Ore mining platforms.

I keep these ships in their current numbers and configurations based on this. How will this be effected? Also please rethink giving the mackinaw the biggest cargo bay... that just seems weird for some reason... The Hulk is the largest of them all and should have more space. I want to see a future blog outlining the specific changes to the exhumers and barges, especialy the EHP. Dont make any of them any weaker than they already are.

I also cant help but notice that you have completely forgotten about the need for a Gas mining platform. unless this new frig is up to the task, I will just have to see....
Swearte Widfarend
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2012-06-14 13:49:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Swearte Widfarend
I'm glad to see the discussion start on the changes to the rest of the frigates, as well as the mining ships.

A couple of things:

Ship Skills
I know that ship skills provide bonuses based on the level of the skill, but I really think you should re-evaluate "all ships unlocked at level 1." Granted, with skills at such a low multiplier, the difference between 1 and 3 is only a couple hours, but I think you should consider unlocking hulls with skill level, with a cap that all hulls are unlocked by LV 4 for a Tech 1 ship. Logically, the hulls are different, and behave differently, so having a higher skill would also imply that the hull has a higher benefit in some way (which may even be true after the changes).

I really think skills are a whole can of worms - and maintaining just a little complexity here isn't a bad thing.

EDIT Read a good argument for the change in the skill setup for Tech 1 ships all being unlocked at level 1.

Maybe I'm the only person who cares, but please ensure we still have a good selection of (inexpensive) Tech 1 frigates that can fit a cynosural field generator and 350 units of LO. in the cargo hold. Each race should have a semi-disposable frigate that can be a cheap cyno.

Mining Barges
I think there should be a tradeoff in tank and ore. Right now, all the barges are fairly thin, and easy to gank, but I like the idea that you can have a viable tank and still have a useful barge is interesting. Just don't go too far. The mining Rokh brought up earlier is an example of what's wrong with mining ships - if you have a BS-tanked ship it needs to compete (capacity and cycle time) with that. I also agree that gas mining needs to be addressed - although that brings all sorts of trickle-down issues with boosters and Tech3. Gas (like ice) is a fairly high-volume product, so perhaps an option like a T2 variant of the Retriever for gas mining (so you could invent Mackinaw or GasBoat) - that has bonuses for gas mining instead of ice?

Democracy is only as good as the despot managing the voting booth.

Rrama Ratamnim
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#115 - 2012-06-14 13:51:17 UTC
Holy crap thats some wicked changes for the ships in total especially the mining changes

but im confused....

are these summer inferno point things that are coming or are they winter expansion things?!?!?

winters mentioned but title says summer
None ofthe Above
#116 - 2012-06-14 13:53:10 UTC
Rrama Ratamnim wrote:
Holy crap thats some wicked changes for the ships in total especially the mining changes

but im confused....

are these summer inferno point things that are coming or are they winter expansion things?!?!?

winters mentioned but title says summer

Its summer devblog on the work on the ship balancing for the winter update. That's how I read it, anyway.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.

Alara IonStorm
#117 - 2012-06-14 13:53:29 UTC
The only thing I don't like about this blog is the time frame for Cruiser Balance.

If it really will take so long some Powergrid / CPU Bandaids to say the Omen and others would be nice. Baby Stat adjustments to make certain ones flyable until everything is sorted.

I love the new Mining Frigate BTW. Absolutely gorgeous. This blog was the perfect thing to wake up to this morning.
Rrama Ratamnim
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#118 - 2012-06-14 13:53:53 UTC
Louis deGuerre wrote:
My only concern is T1 destroyers might make T1 frigates obsolete due to sheer firepower.

the issue is destroyers are frigate killers but die to anything else easily due to there sig and crap tanks... frigates die to destroyers but can pretty much sig tank damn near everything else

Personally im interested to see if next year sees more t1 destroyer variants and t2 frigate variants
Andrea Griffin
#119 - 2012-06-14 13:54:07 UTC
Thank you for laying out a broad vision for us. It lets us know in general what to expect for the frigate line, something that the previous release didn't quite do. I'm excited, however; lots of interesting changes.

I'm still not sold on the concept of 'long range frigate' however. But that's okay I guess - everything else seems great.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2012-06-14 13:55:54 UTC
I'm disappointing that CCP didn't see fit to create a new gas mining ship.

It also sucks that the Hulk isn't getting an EHP boost... But who cares?! I stopped mining once i realize it was the dullest mechanic i've ever experienced in a game.