EVE General Discussion

That's kind of an ironic statement considering the most popular pastime these days (suicide ganking) takes about ten days of training.

Can you imagine if it took as long to train a gank ship as it does a hulk?

I can. Right after the flood of tears and tantrums the player base would drop by ten or fifteen percent as all those "instant gratification dweebs" you so disdainfully frown upon leave for some other instant gratification game.

Actually. I think I just came up with a thread idea for features discussion. This could go places and weed out the parasitical lowlife contingent that has been polluting this game of late.

Mr Epeen

I trained for 6 years to be the best suicide ganker I could be.

Then I joined RvB, it's like rehab

No, you are a fan of your own ideas and fantasies of how the game should be. This is completely and unequivocally different. If you were a fan of the game, we would not be here having this back and forth on the forums. You would be actually playing the game. This is not 2003-2006, where you may have had a reason for doing nothing for 2 weeks before playing the game. This is 2012, where the game is more accessible than ever.

Eve is not a Space Simulation MMO. Sorry, but it is not. The only thing that is wrong here is your own perceived notion of what indicates success, and to a lesser extent, marks a good game. Do not get me wrong, there are many things wrong with Eve in my opinion but that's an important distinction- it is my opinion. Just because the game does not appeal to the millions of players in the world who want a different game does not mean that this is a bad game. This is just marketed to different people, of which there are categorically less than those who enjoy games like World of Warcraft.


Irrelevant. Your past gaming experience details nothing other than your own gaming preference. Playing every MMO does not make you a wizard in the knowledge of how to make every MMO better for the people it is intended for.


Their model is Creating the game they want to make and nurturing the players who enjoy that game to the fullest. You are definitely not a fan of Eve Online. You're looking for something that doesn't exist and attempting to Hijack Eve Online as "That Game" in your own head. Yes, they tried to milk people, and it has probably cost them more than just the subs they lost. It cost them reputation and pissed off the loyal fans.


Small distinction, but an important one. Eve Online is not a space sim. It is not attempting to be a Space-Sim, nor will it ever be a Space-Sim. We live in a world of underwater physics, Bigger-On-The-Inside storage, Lack of collision and many other things. Short version? Eve Online =/= Space Sim.



Again, you lied earlier saying you were a Fan of Eve Online. You're a fan of what you think Eve should be.

1) Get out and explore before spouting untruthful statements. Have you even left your starter system? Seriously? There are dozens of stations for each of the races, and whilst true there is a distinct lack of variety of the interiors, you're not seriously spending all of your time docked up, crying about an inability to do anything without even trying, are you?

2) You're five days into the game. You cannot even begin to comprehend the scale of this game if you think things take too long. That is the whole point of Eve. Things take time, and time is investment, so when you waste that time you are holding yourself back. It means when things happen, they can have serious long-term consequences and be brilliantly notable. Examples like Band of Brothers vs Ascendant Frontier, then Goonswarm, then the whole ordeal where BoB was taken over from the inside and disbanded. Things like that have meaning and it is important within the game due to the time investment.

Literally would probably? How about you just play it? That aside, X3TC is far better suited to you. Best off heading on back to it, honestly. Thank you for your opinion, but in the four years where I actively played this game I never once felt I was having my endurance tested nor did it test my patience. And considering I started this game when I was 14... well... I'll let you be the judge of what implications that places upon you.




Changed if that is the developers choice of direction. It isn't. Your opinion is not aligned with theirs so just leave while you have some dignity...



Again, you're speculating on conjecture to further your agenda. Quit it. And stop throwing words around like Nanosecond when it's inaccurate and bullshit, and would throw game balance out the window for the sake of you feeling a bit less "inconvenienced".



And I have a great dislike for self entitled man-children who think money and age equate a higher level of understanding and notion for what is good and bad, what is right and wrong, and what is correct and incorrect. You're an idiot if you think your own self respect and confidence have anything to do with your dislike for the games mechanics. Stop masquerading already and just go.




Goodbye. And I sincerely hope you stay away this time. You don't understand the game and get angry about it. You see time investment and can only think of things you could be doing in that time which would give you more gratification and make you feel more special and fulfilled. You see things you do not understand and assume them pointless and faulty, then convince yourself of ways it should work and make that the destination you push towards. You do not give an ounce towards understanding why things are the way they are balance wise, nor do you care about the people who enjoy the game as-is and how many of them would get displaced in order to satiate your own desires.

The flipside to EVE taking forever to do things is "life is too short". There's many people out there who aren't after instant gratification, but who also don't want a commitment of 6-18 months to a GAME. And make no mistake here, EVE IS a game, nothing more.

I'm in total agreement with the OP that some things in EVE just take too darn long. Unnecessarily so. In real game developer lingo it's called "pacing". Some games have a good pace to them, where progression and skilling up flows naturally. So that the player never hits a plateau where they have to suffer through unnecessarily dragged out patch before they can progress further. But EVE is full of those, eveywhere. And the pacing in this game is fairly awful.

Consider missions. Logically, by the time a player can run L4s, that is have practice and knowledge and spent the time increasing standings to run them in the first place, they should have the ship to run L4s in. In my case, that wasn't even close. I was more than ready for L4s, but was stuck in L3s for WEEKS while the skills finished up and I could fly ships capable of doing L4s. That is what is known as "bad pacing", and it's a very basic example of "bad thing you shouldn't do" when it comes to game design. But hey, what do I know, I've only been playing games since way back when they came on punch cards.

Though I do disagree with the OP about travel. Travel is made relatively slow for a purpose. If people were able to traverse 20 systems with one jump, it would break the game beyond all repair. On all fronts - combat, industry, exploration, trade, etc. But skill training? I'm with the OP on this one. It's just too darn slow. I'm not looking for "instant", but "60 days until you can fly X" is just ludicrous.

Actually, EVE's subscriber numbers are quite large compared to most MMOs. WoW is an outlier. SWTOR has the Star Wars franchise behind it. Most MMOs are around the 100-500K mark for subscribers.

http://mmodata.blogspot.ca/
(see charts on left-hand side of the blog)

Nobody publishes unique subscriber numbers. And I don't care to figure out if using unique subscribers changes the relationship between EvE and it's closest follower (LOTRO with 250k). Though, assuming EvE is 50% alts and LOTR is more than 10% alts, EvE comes out ahead.

SWOTOR and WoW are not relevant to placing EvE in 3rd place. It's all the other western paid MMOs that are relevant, and Rift (~245k) and LOTRO (~250k) are 4th and 5th behind EvE. After that it's SWG at ~0 or we drop down to the "hasn't peaked over 150k chart." Where D&DO is at 110k.

http://mmodata.blogspot.com/


Also, you clearly don't know how PLEX work.

I get completely what the op is saying, and I know those are some reasons this is my third attempt to stick with eve longer than a couple months over the past years.

...but those are also what makes it interesting. You have to break the questing is the goal mentality. In eve getting to the mission giver you want is part of the "quest." when you're logged in everything you do is playing the game instead of being essentially a chat room between instanced dungeons. At least for me that shift in perception helped.

I don't get much gaming time and with eve it's hard to jump in get action and jump out, or only be able to log in once or twice a week which certainly contributes to the small player base. I just don't agree that this should be changed because its much more immersive.

Sony Online Entertainment tried this with Star Wars Galaxies, guess what happened?

Tippia,

I agree with your serial thinking hypothesis. (I doubt that's the OP's issue though.) I think proficient multitaskers would not only have a shorter learning curve, but I suspect they'd be more successful at a host of other things in game too. And they may serve a purpose, but there could also be some validity to the idea that long trips and long waits aren't generally new player friendly concepts. It depends on which players of course but it's certainly debatable.

To the OP,

Though I cannot pretend to have similar gaming experience as someone who has "played every MMO that has ever been made," I can tell you that what I suspect makes EvE special are the ways it is not like other MMOs.

It goes without saying that CCP is in the buisness of selling gametime. Of course they are. But who cares about that?

All games are.

Inside this beautiful, unpredictable pvp sandbox where anything can happen - and will - time adds to the gameplay experience here. The time investment is directly related to the value players attach to their characters and to the game.

As a result, this game has a pretty loyal following. From what I've seen, EvE's bittervets are (at least in the forums) pretty much raving lunatics drunk with passion.

Well, some are lunatics and some are just drunk, but they all do seem to care.

You don't get to be superhuman in EvE when you reach lvl 100 by killing enough bad guys. You can't win.

All you can do is invest yourself in the only space-themed mmo that's survived because of its differences and begin living the dream. Lay down plans to build your own empire. Build a balanced character and remember you are always competing with others in EvE.

Always.

Until you do, no matter what you write here, even though well-intentioned, will still be ideas from someone who's been playing a game that an investment of years cannot fully experience, for less than a week.

Yonis Kador