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Q: What can an ice miner do?
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Morganta
The Greater Goon
#81 - 2012-06-14 03:17:20 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Morganta wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
[Another thing that works, mining at the top or bottom of the belt instead of close to the warp in. And in groups of unaffiliated ice miners.
In fact, let's just generalise that one to this handy tip:

The warp-in beacon of any commonly visited static location in space should be used once and for one purpose only: it's the place where you land with your MWD-equipped tier-2 frigate as you prepare to set up the actual warp-in spots you will land at on every subsequent visit.


this ^^ is the first rule of mining


I thought the first rule of mining was "remember to press F1"


no that's the stupid noob mining rule
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#82 - 2012-06-14 03:23:21 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Did I say leave a hole? No, I said tank "with an eye for blasters" that does not mean you completely disregard other damage.


In optimal tank Hulk and Mack both have following:
Medium F-S9 Regolith
2x T2 Adaptive invul. field
Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation field

Ok, let's see the resists:
Hulk: 71,70/87,94/83,02/84,15
Mack: 67,90/86,79/80,74/82,02

For me EM is quite low in both.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#83 - 2012-06-14 03:25:45 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Did I say leave a hole? No, I said tank "with an eye for blasters" that does not mean you completely disregard other damage.


In optimal tank Hulk and Mack both have following:
Medium F-S9 Regolith
2x T2 Adaptive invul. field
Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation field

Ok, let's see the resists:
Hulk: 71,70/87,94/83,02/84,15
Mack: 67,90/86,79/80,74/82,02

For me EM is quite low in both.


What's the EHP vs EMP or Conflag (which is heavily Therm)?

Neither Raw resist nor Raw HP values matter much.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#84 - 2012-06-14 03:26:39 UTC
Do? No Mr. Miner, I expect you to die.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#85 - 2012-06-14 03:30:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
RubyPorto wrote:
What's the EHP vs EMP


Mack: 15k vs. EMP
Mack: 24k vs. therm
Hulk: a bit less than 25k vs. EMP
Hulk: 38k vs. therm
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#86 - 2012-06-14 03:31:01 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
In optimal tank Hulk and Mack both have following:
Medium F-S9 Regolith
2x T2 Adaptive invul. field
Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation field
Optimal? With a faction mod and no suitcase? No, that is not optimal.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#87 - 2012-06-14 03:32:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
In optimal tank Hulk and Mack both have following:
Medium F-S9 Regolith
2x T2 Adaptive invul. field
Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation field
Optimal? With a faction mod and no suitcase? No, that is not optimal.


Optimal mid slots.

If you still don't know what I mean:

[Hulk]

Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Damage Control II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#88 - 2012-06-14 03:36:14 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
What's the EHP vs EMP


Mack: 15k vs. EMP
Mack: 24k vs. therm
Hulk: a bit less than 25k vs. EMP
Hulk: 38k vs. therm


Not EM, EMP; the Ammo type that does a mix of EM and Kin damage and Conflag, the Ammo type which does a mix of EM and Therm.

RF EMP S does 10.35 EM, 2.3 EXP, 1.15 Kin
Conflag S does 7.7 EM, 7.7 Therm
Navy Multi does 8.05 EM, 5.75 Therm

You also have to take into account that Thrashers and Coercers do much less DPS per Hull/Isk than Catalysts.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#89 - 2012-06-14 03:42:11 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Optimal mid slots.

If you still don't know what I mean:
Still a faction mod. Still not optimal.
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#90 - 2012-06-14 03:47:26 UTC
Cyprus Black wrote:

2) Mine using tech 1 mining barges. Yes they're less efficient than their T2 counterparts, but far cheaper to replace and far less interesting as a target if and when gankers roll in.


And with Ice prices the way they are you make more money in a covetor than you used to make in a Mack.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#91 - 2012-06-14 03:50:40 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Still a faction mod. Still not optimal.


I thought gankers like expensive lewtz. Sad

Try to fit T2 without implants.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#92 - 2012-06-14 03:54:07 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Try to fit T2 without implants.
Try to just use three invulns, one of which is named, the other T2. Far more balanced against all eventualities. For the Mack, just use three named invulns. Then overload them.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#93 - 2012-06-14 03:56:42 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Try to fit T2 without implants.
Try to just use three invulns, one of which is named, the other T2. Far more balanced against all eventualities. For the Mack, just use three named invulns. Then overload them.


Are you serious? EHP drops by 8k from 40k to 32k. Overloaded of course.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2012-06-14 03:59:58 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Try to fit T2 without implants.
Try to just use three invulns, one of which is named, the other T2. Far more balanced against all eventualities. For the Mack, just use three named invulns. Then overload them.


Are you serious? EHP drops by 8k from 40k to 32k. Overloaded of course.


On the other hand you're not using a faction hardener.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#95 - 2012-06-14 04:01:28 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Try to fit T2 without implants.
Try to just use three invulns, one of which is named, the other T2. Far more balanced against all eventualities. For the Mack, just use three named invulns. Then overload them.


Are you serious? EHP drops by 8k from 40k to 32k. Overloaded of course.


Is 32k without a faction mod more or less profitable to gank than 40k with a faction mod?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#96 - 2012-06-14 04:01:34 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Are you serious? EHP drops by 8k from 40k to 32k. Overloaded of course.
EHP drops and increases to a standard level across pretty much all ammo types and weapons, thus matching what you can expect to encounter and minimising the chance of the opponent exploiting the large imbalances in your resists that you get by throwing in a specific rests mod in there.

If you fit a thermal resists mod, the one thing you can be sure of is that they will not use thermal-heavy ammo against you, making the resist mod entirely pointless (other than, in this case, as a further incentive for them to attack you… which will be much easier since you have wasted a taking slot on a module that will not make any difference).
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#97 - 2012-06-14 04:04:41 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Are you serious? EHP drops by 8k from 40k to 32k. Overloaded of course.
EHP drops and increases to a standard level across pretty much all ammo types and weapons, thus matching what you can expect to encounter and minimising the chance of the opponent exploiting the large imbalances in your resists that you get by throwing in a specific rests mod in there.

If you fit a thermal resists mod, the one thing you can be sure of is that they will not use thermal-heavy ammo against you, making the resist mod entirely pointless (other than, in this case, as a further incentive for them to attack you… which will be much easier since you have wasted a taking slot on a module that will not make any difference).


In fairness, it does force the attacker to use isk inefficient methods of attack (thrashers instead of catalysts or lower dps ammo) if they want to skip around the therm hill. So tanking against the most isk efficient method has merit even if the thing ganking you isn't shooting your resists.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#98 - 2012-06-14 04:07:21 UTC
Mack would be easily destroyed by two T2 fit Catalysts.
Hulk would barely survive if gankers don't know how to delay Concord.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2012-06-14 04:08:00 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Are you serious? EHP drops by 8k from 40k to 32k. Overloaded of course.
EHP drops and increases to a standard level across pretty much all ammo types and weapons, thus matching what you can expect to encounter and minimising the chance of the opponent exploiting the large imbalances in your resists that you get by throwing in a specific rests mod in there.

If you fit a thermal resists mod, the one thing you can be sure of is that they will not use thermal-heavy ammo against you, making the resist mod entirely pointless (other than, in this case, as a further incentive for them to attack you… which will be much easier since you have wasted a taking slot on a module that will not make any difference).


In fairness, it does force the attacker to use isk inefficient methods of attack (thrashers instead of catalysts or lower dps ammo) if they want to skip around the therm hill. So tanking against the most isk efficient method has merit even if the thing ganking you isn't shooting your resists.



Do note that Hulkageddon didn't get to nearly two trillion in damage because people didn't murder faction tanked exhumers.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#100 - 2012-06-14 04:10:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
RubyPorto wrote:
In fairness, it does force the attacker to use isk inefficient methods of attack (thrashers instead of catalysts or lower dps ammo) if they want to skip around the therm hill. So tanking against the most isk efficient method has merit even if the thing ganking you isn't shooting your resists.
Fair enough, but even then, they're not shooting raw thermal — they're shooting a 50/50(ish) split of Kin/Th or EM/Th, where the thermal part is the lower one. The difference isn't nearly as huge as claimed and with a DG module, it basically lets the opponent field another destroyer for free, which means a whole lot more incoming damage than the additional resist will compensate for.

Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Mack would be easily destroyed by two T2 fit Catalysts.
Hulk would barely survive if gankers don't know how to delay Concord.
…entirely depending on a number of other circumstances. In most systems, neither is true.