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Q: What can an ice miner do?
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Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#21 - 2012-06-13 21:15:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jacob Holland
Tippia wrote:
…anyway, it means filling every other slot with fitting mods and rigs, but it's possible to squeeze highest-meta MSE, 3× Invuln, and a suitcase in there for nearly 21k EHP, just as a first attempt.

How much are IFFAs these days? Last I checked they were really crazy money and almost equivalent to putting Gistii hardeners on the thing...

And I get 19k EHP out of it, not 21k...

Edit: And again it requires a 3% CPU Implant...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#22 - 2012-06-13 21:23:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jacob Holland wrote:
How much are IFFAs these days? Last I checked they were really crazy money and almost equivalent to putting Gistii hardeners on the thing...

And I get 19k EHP out of it, not 21k...
Overheating is your friend. Oooh, and with Orca backup, it's almost up to 23k EHP.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#23 - 2012-06-13 21:25:36 UTC
Rigs: 2 overclocking units
Mid slot: 2 'Langour' drive disruptors.

Method: everyone double webs someone else. Everyone aligns to a station and gets to speed. With the webs on you, you go quite slow and will remain in range of the ice long enough to fill up. If a hostile shows up the fleet commander does a fleet warp. As everyone is already moving fast enough to enter warp, the warp out happens immediately, even before the hostile completes dropping out of warp (meaning he cannot even target you).

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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#24 - 2012-06-13 21:41:23 UTC
Klandi wrote:

2 x ice harvesters (II as the meta 4 are 360mil ea) in the low slots


You don't need these to mine Ice. If you want to ask safely, you'll need to lose some income. If you want safety and maximum income, you'll need to be actively flying your ship.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Bossy Lady
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#25 - 2012-06-13 22:07:07 UTC
Klandi wrote:
Was passing through a ice system the other day and caught a subject in local that intrigued me. The locals were getting bolchie and clubbing together to guard against the continuing ganking. They were discussing how to fit out a Mackinaw so it wouldn't be such an easy kill. I did some research on the subject - saw some terrible fits and have not managed to come up with a good answer. So forum warriors - here's the task

If profit is the key to maximizing income (admit it, grinding is a boring necessity) then you need to spend as little time doing it as possible. That means an ice miner needs to keep the basics which are:
2 x ice harvester II in high slots
2 x ice harvesters (II as the meta 4 are 360mil ea) in the low slots

You have 9.59 to play with CPU wise and 23.94 PG (plus two medium rig slots) to get a half decent tank AND you must get 4 blocks every three minutes...

Consider that a dessy with t2 stuff puts out 680dps and takes down a Mack in under 10sec in .7 sec space ...


What can you come up with?



It's pretty much impossible to tank a Mack in a worthwhile way. It's a legitimate issue IMO.

If anything, the Mack should have more tankability than the Hulk, because the mining cycle is longer.


On further thought, I can't really see a reason to have a specialised ice-miner at all. My proposal would be to fold the Mackinaw's role into that of the Hulk (and upgrade the Hulk's PG/CPU so that it can fit a meta 4 LSE if it sacrifices both MLUs), and repurpose the tier 2 Exhumer role to something more appropriate like Gas mining.

Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#26 - 2012-06-13 22:13:09 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Klandi wrote:
If profit is the key to maximizing income (admit it, grinding is a boring necessity) then you need to spend as little time doing it as possible. That means an ice miner needs to keep the basics which are:
2 x ice harvester II in high slots
2 x ice harvesters (II as the meta 4 are 360mil ea) in the low slots
First step: ditch the idea of maintaining maximum yield while at the same time maintaining a good tank. Everything comes at a cost…

Sounds like the standard approach to things.

Hulk must have its three strips and T2 MLUs in the low, right?

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#27 - 2012-06-13 22:13:56 UTC
Bossy Lady wrote:
It's pretty much impossible to tank a Mack in a worthwhile way. It's a legitimate issue IMO.
21k EHP is meaningful, and nicely protects the Mack against that much-maligned solo destroyer. In slightly higher sec than 0.5, you'll probably even survive two of them…
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#28 - 2012-06-13 22:15:52 UTC
Bossy Lady wrote:
Klandi wrote:
Was passing through a ice system the other day and caught a subject in local that intrigued me. The locals were getting bolchie and clubbing together to guard against the continuing ganking. They were discussing how to fit out a Mackinaw so it wouldn't be such an easy kill. I did some research on the subject - saw some terrible fits and have not managed to come up with a good answer. So forum warriors - here's the task

If profit is the key to maximizing income (admit it, grinding is a boring necessity) then you need to spend as little time doing it as possible. That means an ice miner needs to keep the basics which are:
2 x ice harvester II in high slots
2 x ice harvesters (II as the meta 4 are 360mil ea) in the low slots

You have 9.59 to play with CPU wise and 23.94 PG (plus two medium rig slots) to get a half decent tank AND you must get 4 blocks every three minutes...

Consider that a dessy with t2 stuff puts out 680dps and takes down a Mack in under 10sec in .7 sec space ...


What can you come up with?



It's pretty much impossible to tank a Mack in a worthwhile way. It's a legitimate issue IMO.

If anything, the Mack should have more tankability than the Hulk, because the mining cycle is longer.


On further thought, I can't really see a reason to have a specialised ice-miner at all. My proposal would be to fold the Mackinaw's role into that of the Hulk (and upgrade the Hulk's PG/CPU so that it can fit a meta 4 LSE if it sacrifices both MLUs), and repurpose the tier 2 Exhumer role to something more appropriate like Gas mining.


Why does the Hulk need more grid to fit more tank if it can already tank plenty to make it unprofitable to gank it? Use the t2 resists, fit an MSE and tank the resists with an eye for blaster damage and you'll make it fairly expensive to gank you.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-06-13 22:29:57 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:

Edit: Excessive lines removed - ISD Stensson



wtf?


oh wait, I remember now... Excessive lines are a forum violation. shame on you karl. You're ruining my foruming experience!


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Professor Elos
Rep-X
#30 - 2012-06-13 22:54:56 UTC
How to tank your miner against suicide ganks -

1) don't afk mine
2) align out toward anything
3) stop mining in highsec
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-06-13 22:58:16 UTC
Klandi wrote:
What can an ice miner do


A: An iceminer would mine all the ice he could if a iceminer could mine ice!

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-06-13 23:03:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
RubyPorto wrote:
Why does the Hulk need more grid to fit more tank if it can already tank plenty to make it unprofitable to gank it? Use the t2 resists, fit an MSE and tank the resists with an eye for blaster damage and you'll make it fairly expensive to gank you.


If you leave EM resist hole you give that Thrasher pilot a chance.

Actually Coercer could be used to solo gank it too.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#33 - 2012-06-13 23:18:04 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Bossy Lady wrote:
It's pretty much impossible to tank a Mack in a worthwhile way. It's a legitimate issue IMO.
21k EHP is meaningful, and nicely protects the Mack against that much-maligned solo destroyer. In slightly higher sec than 0.5, you'll probably even survive two of them…


In the ice systems I roam for my business I have seen *1* solo ice miner ganker in 2 months. All the others always bring in 2 or 3 catalysts. So no, it's not gonna work for the majority of the cases.


To the OP: your most immediate option is to die. A mack is a farce, an Hulk can ice mine almost as good but with 30% more tank.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#34 - 2012-06-13 23:27:10 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
In the ice systems I roam for my business I have seen *1* solo ice miner ganker in 2 months. All the others always bring in 2 or 3 catalysts. So no, it's not gonna work for the majority of the cases.
Group together; bring logi.

The OP mentioned wanting to be safe from a destroyer; 21k EHP will do that admirably.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-06-13 23:29:45 UTC
Tippia wrote:
The OP mentioned wanting to be safe from a destroyer; 21k EHP will do that admirably.


Not enough against 3.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#36 - 2012-06-13 23:39:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
The OP mentioned wanting to be safe from a destroyer; 21k EHP will do that admirably.
Not enough against 3.
Irrelevant.

Also, bring logi.

Oh and: are there any 0.7 ice mining systems? If so, then yes, it will indeed survive three of them.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-06-13 23:49:15 UTC
Tippia wrote:
bring logi.


Quite expensive ship to lose to cheap destroyers.

Tippia wrote:
Oh and: are there any 0.7 ice mining systems? If so, then yes, it will indeed survive three of them.


They bring more fire power.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#38 - 2012-06-13 23:57:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Quite expensive ship to lose to cheap destroyers.
So don't. Also: irrelevant.

Quote:
They bring more fire power.
Just as irrelevant. Also: so bring more protection.
You know, they call it the ”moving the goalposts”-fallacy for a reason…
Miss Yanumano
Cadence Industrial Syndicate
#39 - 2012-06-13 23:57:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss Yanumano
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
bring logi.


Quite expensive ship to lose to cheap destroyers.

Tippia wrote:
Oh and: are there any 0.7 ice mining systems? If so, then yes, it will indeed survive three of them.


They bring more fire power.


Bring more friends.

May I suggest Ospreys, Scimitars or Basilisks?


EDIT: Damn it, Tippia got to it before me, and she pointed out your logical fallacy too!

Curse ye!
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2012-06-14 00:00:12 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Quite expensive ship to lose to cheap destroyers.


A logi would have to be the worst shitfit logi in the world to be lost to a suicide gank - assuming anyone would even try, since the loot drop would be completely worthless and you'd be having to pray for salvage to make it anything other than a total loss.

And that's assuming you use a dedicated logi ship instead of say, an Osprey.

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