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Vanguard Un-Nerf

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Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2012-06-22 11:21:35 UTC
Mazzy Star wrote:
@Herr Ronin - Just as a benchmark for purposes of this thread, could you give us some info on what your fleets are typically bringing in (ISK per hour) when running VGs and also when running Assaults? The changes have been in effect for weeks now and I suspect people have had enough time to refine their VG/Assault running to the point where the ISK/hr has more or less stabilized.



Well the main problem at the minute is the Numbers that are willing to join fleet, There is a lot of people who have gone back to Mining, Mission Running etc, Just cause the isk isn't that good, But when we do get a fleet up it is very smooth, In Assaults we have to take more Bio Breaks etc, Which cause's us to lose Isk per hour ratio.

Assaults: 90-100 Mill Depending the Site Spawns.

Vanguards: 70-80 Mill Due to the OTA Sites.


Regarding the 10% Un-Nerf, It isn't going to change a thing, It is CCP's fault that people are doing it just for Isk, They have left it for to long to make a change.

For instance its like Riding a Fireblade, Then getting told you got to use a 125cc, In my opinion, They have ruined Incursions, All the changes etc, It would not matter as much if they changed it like a year ago, But people do Incursions for the Isk, Not the Social aspect, yes its a Bonus but lets get the facts.

For instance, I joined a TVP HQ fleet, Yeh it was a good laugh, But 1 site per hour, 35 Mill or whatever the payout is, I can make 140 mill per hour Ice Mining, Ask yourself, What would you choose.


Incursions are dead unless they make some dramatic changes, CCP are doing all they can, But the changes will take to long and people would of left before they make them better, For now Incursions are dead imo.

Plus, All the Statistics they have done, Is all on Blitz fleets, So if you are running in a public fleet, Go back to Mission running and join a Active corp if you want to have a social time.


But for the love of God, Enough of the pointless dramatic incursions threads, They changed it in May, Learn to let go.


I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
Apolyon I
Shadow of ISW
#82 - 2012-06-22 17:52:47 UTC
Herr Ronin wrote:

stuff

this guy got the issue, CCP broke the game balance when introducing massive payout for incursion, they then rebalance it.

the farmers, who changed from L4s to incursion, get addicted to that massive payout and safety , got mad, whined and left incursion after the rebalancing, result in dramatic reduction in incursion runner number.

L4s net about 50~70m/hr.

100m/hr from incursion is considered high payout for a hisec activity
Cobalt Rookits
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2012-06-23 03:20:31 UTC
100m/hr is complete BS, since the change I have never even come close to that in my best hour, let alone if I averaged it out. If you want to spout BS about "isk/hr" and cherry pick, how about I do that.

Vanguard + Assault fleets get about 0 isk/hr, because I've sat in a fleet (more than once) for around an hour waiting for more logistics and made 0 isk.

Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2012-06-23 12:46:10 UTC
Cobalt Rookits wrote:
100m/hr is complete BS, since the change I have never even come close to that in my best hour, let alone if I averaged it out. If you want to spout BS about "isk/hr" and cherry pick, how about I do that.

Vanguard + Assault fleets get about 0 isk/hr, because I've sat in a fleet (more than once) for around an hour waiting for more logistics and made 0 isk.




Yes because you run in Public fleets, we don't get 100 mil every hour, it depends on the sites, ISN is the only Blizter community left, But we have proven we can do it.

P.s I don't BS about Statistics :)

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
Cobalt Rookits
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2012-06-23 19:38:47 UTC
I was refering to Apolyon using it as EVERYONE gets 100mil/hr, not that your numbers were false Herr Ronin. I hate when people use outliers to make their arguments and ISN is definitely an outlier right now :)

FFF, I just averaged out my time on the last 3 hours I spent actively RUNNING vg sites (only fleet that was up when I was on) I made about 40 mil/hr. Mostly OTAs, but what the heck am I doing?
Apolyon I
Shadow of ISW
#86 - 2012-06-23 22:07:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Apolyon I
Cobalt Rookits wrote:
I was refering to Apolyon using it as EVERYONE gets 100mil/hr, not that your numbers were false Herr Ronin. I hate when people use outliers to make their arguments and ISN is definitely an outlier right now :)

FFF, I just averaged out my time on the last 3 hours I spent actively RUNNING vg sites (only fleet that was up when I was on) I made about 40 mil/hr. Mostly OTAs, but what the heck am I doing?

well, running site in C3 net 150m/hr, account time to scan. run logistics, hostile show up in system.

in the end I make 50m/hr

consider you dont have to worry about hostile show up, your isk/hr still good, so htfu
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2012-06-23 22:13:24 UTC
Cobalt Rookits wrote:
I was refering to Apolyon using it as EVERYONE gets 100mil/hr, not that your numbers were false Herr Ronin. I hate when people use outliers to make their arguments and ISN is definitely an outlier right now :)

FFF, I just averaged out my time on the last 3 hours I spent actively RUNNING vg sites (only fleet that was up when I was on) I made about 40 mil/hr. Mostly OTAs, but what the heck am I doing?


Its just a pain i know!

Try to avoid OTA's if you can at this point.

Have you tried Assaults?

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
Cobalt Rookits
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2012-06-24 01:15:43 UTC
@Herr Ronin, yeah I've done some assaults - better isk, but I my fit is so tight on PG it makes adding an AB requires a Bailey plate (which I don't have lol). And the downtime after every site kills me.

@Apolyon - I actually made a mistake on my math, I added in a payout without including the time (I went from first payout time to last payout time, but inlcuded the first payout) - It was actually a hair over 37 mil/hr. I also didn't include my wait time in there - that would have brought it down to about 32 mil/hr. I can do better semi-AFKing l4s.

I would just like to add to any CCP person reading this, the problem isn't the payout per site for VGs, its that OTAs take soo much longer its really hard to get anyone to do them. So when nobody does them - nobody is flying, so nobody shows up next time because they know its not worth it. I'm still a sucker doing them though and it is soley for the social aspect, L4s make me more isk per hour of 'activity', if you can call it that.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#89 - 2012-06-24 03:08:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
As example of actual amount of money in incursions right now: today I've spent 5 hours total and completed 5 HQ sites (~ 3 hours in fleet, ~ 2 hours waiting for fleet), got 150m.

It's 30mil/hour average - a bit more than income from solo L4 missions, but in 40 pilots fleet killing toughest rats in the game. No wonder whole activity is almost dead despite its "extreme profitability" according to various "well informed" sources.

However this activity became much more social because there is just handful of people left - but they (kind of) know each other, value their reputation (because there aren't any alternative communities) and are trying to do their best to keep this small community alive.
Freundliches Feuer
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2012-06-24 17:16:15 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Keith Planck wrote:
Quote:
We have rolled back the following changes:

Lowering the reward for vanguard sites by 10%
The system influence

-CCP Affinity


How many people will be going back and trying Vanguards after the un-nerf ?


The partial un nerf (rollback) does not address the real issue which floored the Vanguards: OTA's are now too dificult and are stacking like pancakes.
I've unsubscribed and my subscription time runs out in under 24 hours


naww little carebear rage quit emo sh*t again ?

Cool we dont need you anyway.
Shaotuk
Sin City Enterprises
#91 - 2012-06-24 21:54:42 UTC
Freundliches Feuer wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Keith Planck wrote:
Quote:
We have rolled back the following changes:

Lowering the reward for vanguard sites by 10%
The system influence

-CCP Affinity


How many people will be going back and trying Vanguards after the un-nerf ?


The partial un nerf (rollback) does not address the real issue which floored the Vanguards: OTA's are now too dificult and are stacking like pancakes.
I've unsubscribed and my subscription time runs out in under 24 hours


naww little carebear rage quit emo sh*t again ?

Cool we dont need you anyway.


Wow, the insecurity displayed by some of you...
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2012-06-24 22:47:03 UTC
Shaotuk wrote:
Freundliches Feuer wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Keith Planck wrote:
Quote:
We have rolled back the following changes:

Lowering the reward for vanguard sites by 10%
The system influence

-CCP Affinity


How many people will be going back and trying Vanguards after the un-nerf ?


The partial un nerf (rollback) does not address the real issue which floored the Vanguards: OTA's are now too dificult and are stacking like pancakes.
I've unsubscribed and my subscription time runs out in under 24 hours


naww little carebear rage quit emo sh*t again ?

Cool we dont need you anyway.


Wow, the insecurity displayed by some of you...



Don't worry you learn to ignore it.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#93 - 2012-07-02 05:10:09 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
CCP Affinity wrote:
I think there is still some confusion with regards to the reasons for the rollback.
(snip)
Also, it's worth noting that we are rolling back the 10% reward reduction. This is not the same thing as increasing the current payout by 10%. eg: 1000 reduced by 10% = 900 which becomes the new payout amount - so 900 increased by 10% is 990


I see some confusion with the Developers math with this 'rollback'.
Before the 10% Escalation NERF the payouts were 10.5 million and now they are 10.395 million for Hi Sec incursions.
Hmmmm lets do the math: 10.5-(10.5*.1)=9.45 9.45+(9.45*.1)= guess what 10.395
You did the exact thing you said you would not be doing.

I came back this weekend after a 2 week break hoping to see some improvements. All I see is BAD QA
I won't even mention here the other QA catastrophies of Escalation/Inferno.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2012-07-02 10:05:29 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Keith Planck wrote:
Quote:
We have rolled back the following changes:

Lowering the reward for vanguard sites by 10%
The system influence

-CCP Affinity


How many people will be going back and trying Vanguards after the un-nerf ?


The partial un nerf (rollback) does not address the real issue which floored the Vanguards: OTA's are now too dificult and are stacking like pancakes.
I've unsubscribed and my subscription time runs out in under 24 hours



Back are we?

Cute.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
Swidgen
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2012-07-02 11:13:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Swidgen
Herr Ronin wrote:
Well the main problem at the minute is the Numbers numbers that are willing to join [a] fleet, There is are a lot of people who have gone back to Mining mining, Mission mission running etc[.] Just just [be]cause the isk isn't that good, But but when we do get a fleet up it is very smooth,. In Assaults we have to take more Bio Breaks bio breaks etc, Which which cause's causes us to lose Isk per hour ratio.

Assaults: 90-100 Mill Depending the Site Spawns.

Vanguards: 70-80 Mill Due to the OTA Sites.


Regarding the 10% Un-Nerf, It isn't going to change a thing,. It is CCP's fault that people are doing it just for Isk, isk. They have left it for to too long to make a change.

For instance its it's like Riding a Fireblade, Then then getting told you got to use a 125cc, In in my opinion, They they have ruined Incursions, All the changes etc, It would not matter as much if they changed it like a year ago, But but people do Incursions for the Isk isk, Not not the Social social aspect, yes its a Bonus bonus but lets let's get the facts.

For instance, I joined a TVP HQ fleet, Yeh Yeah it was a good laugh, But but 1 site per hour, 35 Mill or whatever the payout is, I can make 140 mill per hour Ice Mining ice mining, Ask ask yourself, What what would you choose.?


Incursions are dead unless they make some dramatic changes, CCP are doing all they can, But but the changes will take to too long and people would of have left before they make made them better, For. For now[,] Incursions are dead imo.

Plus,All all the Statistics statistics they have done,Is are all on for the Blitz fleets, So so if you are running in a public fleet,Go go back to Mission mission running and join a an Active active corp if you want to have a social time.


But for the love of God, Enough enough of the pointless dramatic incursions threads, They, they changed it in May, Learn learn to let go.




FYP. For the love of God learn to speak English! Please, I'm begging you. In every single one of your posts you average over FOUR spelling, punctuation, capitalization or grammatical mistakes!

CCP, how about starting a PLEX for Herr Ronin ESL charity course? He actually thinks he knows the English language, and he does not. Talk about the Dunning-Kruger Effect, Herr Ronin personifies it in regard to his mastery (or lack thereof) of the English language.

P.S. What is Riding a Fireblade?

P.P.S. What's a 125cc? Is that like a drug thing?
Kadeyoo
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#96 - 2012-07-02 11:25:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Kadeyoo
Yo Swidgen, look up "Ad hominem" in your list of fallacies. You'll be amazed.

Also, for Somebody such as Yourself who CLEARLY is trying to assume the grammatical/moral high ground, it's quite sad that you don't know what either a fireblade is or what 125cc machines are. Maybe they don't have Motorcycles in your Country?

Discrediting someone because English is not his primary language and adding in a wild mixture of conjectures is the best way to get people ignore you, or troll you. So please, stick to real arguments next time.


P.S.

All typoses intended.
Browneye84
Anti Social Spacemen
#97 - 2012-07-02 11:29:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Browneye84
Swidgen wrote:
Herr Ronin wrote:
Well the main problem at the minute is the Numbers numbers that are willing to join [a] fleet, There is are a lot of people who have gone back to Mining mining, Mission mission running etc[.] Just just [be]cause the isk isn't that good, But but when we do get a fleet up it is very smooth,. In Assaults we have to take more Bio Breaks bio breaks etc, Which which cause's causes us to lose Isk per hour ratio.

Assaults: 90-100 Mill Depending the Site Spawns.

Vanguards: 70-80 Mill Due to the OTA Sites.


Regarding the 10% Un-Nerf, It isn't going to change a thing,. It is CCP's fault that people are doing it just for Isk, isk. They have left it for to too long to make a change.

For instance its it's like Riding a Fireblade, Then then getting told you got to use a 125cc, In in my opinion, They they have ruined Incursions, All the changes etc, It would not matter as much if they changed it like a year ago, But but people do Incursions for the Isk isk, Not not the Social social aspect, yes its a Bonus bonus but lets let's get the facts.

For instance, I joined a TVP HQ fleet, Yeh Yeah it was a good laugh, But but 1 site per hour, 35 Mill or whatever the payout is, I can make 140 mill per hour Ice Mining ice mining, Ask ask yourself, What what would you choose.?


Incursions are dead unless they make some dramatic changes, CCP are doing all they can, But but the changes will take to too long and people would of have left before they make made them better, For. For now[,] Incursions are dead imo.

Plus,All all the Statistics statistics they have done,Is are all on for the Blitz fleets, So so if you are running in a public fleet,Go go back to Mission mission running and join a an Active active corp if you want to have a social time.


But for the love of God, Enough enough of the pointless dramatic incursions threads, They, they changed it in May, Learn learn to let go.




FYP. For the love of God learn to speak English! Please, I'm begging you. In every single one of your posts you average over FOUR spelling, punctuation, capitalization or grammatical mistakes!

CCP, how about starting a PLEX for Herr Ronin ESL charity course? He actually thinks he knows the English language, and he does not. Talk about the Dunning-Kruger Effect, Herr Ronin personifies it in regard to his mastery (or lack thereof) of the English language.

P.S. What is Riding a Fireblade?

P.P.S. What's a 125cc? Is that like a drug thing?



A Fireblade is a motorbike. 125cc is 125 cubic centimeters, which is an engine capacity, generally a lot smaller than a Fireblades engine. More like a bike that new riders might ride.

You also missed a few of his errors:

Riding = riding
getting told = being told
got to use = have to use
All the changes = all the changes

It is easy to make mistakes, so next time make sure you do a good job of correcting someone before you slip up too.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2012-07-02 15:08:20 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
I think there is still some confusion with regards to the reasons for the rollback.
(snip)
Also, it's worth noting that we are rolling back the 10% reward reduction. This is not the same thing as increasing the current payout by 10%. eg: 1000 reduced by 10% = 900 which becomes the new payout amount - so 900 increased by 10% is 990


I see some confusion with the Developers math with this 'rollback'.
Before the 10% Escalation NERF the payouts were 10.5 million and now they are 10.395 million for Hi Sec incursions.
Hmmmm lets do the math: 10.5-(10.5*.1)=9.45 9.45+(9.45*.1)= guess what 10.395
You did the exact thing you said you would not be doing.

I came back this weekend after a 2 week break hoping to see some improvements. All I see is BAD QA
I won't even mention here the other QA catastrophies of Escalation/Inferno.



Wow, and you even managed to remove all of your "I quit" posts.
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2012-07-02 18:43:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Ronin
Browneye84 wrote:
Swidgen wrote:
Herr Ronin wrote:
Well the main problem at the minute is the Numbers numbers that are willing to join [a] fleet, There is are a lot of people who have gone back to Mining mining, Mission mission running etc[.] Just just [be]cause the isk isn't that good, But but when we do get a fleet up it is very smooth,. In Assaults we have to take more Bio Breaks bio breaks etc, Which which cause's causes us to lose Isk per hour ratio.

Assaults: 90-100 Mill Depending the Site Spawns.

Vanguards: 70-80 Mill Due to the OTA Sites.


Regarding the 10% Un-Nerf, It isn't going to change a thing,. It is CCP's fault that people are doing it just for Isk, isk. They have left it for to too long to make a change.

For instance its it's like Riding a Fireblade, Then then getting told you got to use a 125cc, In in my opinion, They they have ruined Incursions, All the changes etc, It would not matter as much if they changed it like a year ago, But but people do Incursions for the Isk isk, Not not the Social social aspect, yes its a Bonus bonus but lets let's get the facts.

For instance, I joined a TVP HQ fleet, Yeh Yeah it was a good laugh, But but 1 site per hour, 35 Mill or whatever the payout is, I can make 140 mill per hour Ice Mining ice mining, Ask ask yourself, What what would you choose.?


Incursions are dead unless they make some dramatic changes, CCP are doing all they can, But but the changes will take to too long and people would of have left before they make made them better, For. For now[,] Incursions are dead imo.

Plus,All all the Statistics statistics they have done,Is are all on for the Blitz fleets, So so if you are running in a public fleet,Go go back to Mission mission running and join a an Active active corp if you want to have a social time.


But for the love of God, Enough enough of the pointless dramatic incursions threads, They, they changed it in May, Learn learn to let go.




FYP. For the love of God learn to speak English! Please, I'm begging you. In every single one of your posts you average over FOUR spelling, punctuation, capitalization or grammatical mistakes!

CCP, how about starting a PLEX for Herr Ronin ESL charity course? He actually thinks he knows the English language, and he does not. Talk about the Dunning-Kruger Effect, Herr Ronin personifies it in regard to his mastery (or lack thereof) of the English language.

P.S. What is Riding a Fireblade?

P.P.S. What's a 125cc? Is that like a drug thing?



A Fireblade is a motorbike. 125cc is 125 cubic centimeters, which is an engine capacity, generally a lot smaller than a Fireblades engine. More like a bike that new riders might ride.

You also missed a few of his errors:

Riding = riding
getting told = being told
got to use = have to use
All the changes = all the changes

It is easy to make mistakes, so next time make sure you do a good job of correcting someone before you slip up too.



Have a Herr Ronin cookie!

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
Apolyon I
Shadow of ISW
#100 - 2012-07-02 19:17:02 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
I think there is still some confusion with regards to the reasons for the rollback.
(snip)
Also, it's worth noting that we are rolling back the 10% reward reduction. This is not the same thing as increasing the current payout by 10%. eg: 1000 reduced by 10% = 900 which becomes the new payout amount - so 900 increased by 10% is 990


I see some confusion with the Developers math with this 'rollback'.
Before the 10% Escalation NERF the payouts were 10.5 million and now they are 10.395 million for Hi Sec incursions.
Hmmmm lets do the math: 10.5-(10.5*.1)=9.45 9.45+(9.45*.1)= guess what 10.395
You did the exact thing you said you would not be doing.

I came back this weekend after a 2 week break hoping to see some improvements. All I see is BAD QA
I won't even mention here the other QA catastrophies of Escalation/Inferno.



Wow, and you even managed to remove all of your "I quit" posts.

+1 for you to point out how lame Darth is