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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Tackle Help

Author
Labia Nabali
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-06-13 16:41:38 UTC
Hello everyone,

I have some questions concerning tackle. If this belongs in another forum, forgive me and please move it accordingly.

If I have scanned down a mission running ship, what would be more productive in keeping it tackled? Secondly, which fit would help keep me alive longer, assuming the ship I had tackled was a missile boat.


A cloaky dual prop ship with long point

A cloaky mwd fit ship with long point and web

A cloaky ab fit ship with web and scram

A cloaky dual prop ship with scram
David Campbell
Primas Custos
#2 - 2012-06-13 17:02:05 UTC
If he's got missiles, you'll want to keep you sig radius as small as possible so no mwd, and as mission fits don't usually include one either, a scram is not necessary. So I'd say something small with an afterburner and a long point and a web should do the job just fine for the "holding your target" part.
For the surviving part, what you have to look for is his drone (they are the biggest threat to you) and NPC aggro. You want to make sure he has the full room aggroed or cleared before you do anything.
Labia Nabali
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-06-13 17:17:08 UTC
Awesome thanks for the feedback!
Wenron
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-06-13 18:16:49 UTC
Labia Nabali wrote:
Awesome thanks for the feedback!


Only thing to add is: do not orbit so close to your target that your speed drops. Not sure what you are thinking of flying, but typically for ab frigs, 5-6k will let you maintain top speed.
Fidelium Mortis
Minor Major Miners LLC
#5 - 2012-06-13 18:19:43 UTC
If isk isn't a concern a 10mn AB stealth bomber with an active tank and smartbomb for drones can start locking without a targeting delay from cloaking, and can keep up with most ships even if they have a MWD fitted.

ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon

Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2012-06-15 00:36:46 UTC
If all you’re doing is holding him there until DPS help arrives then what you’re gonna need is -

1. Something to stop him getting away. That would be a point or a scram, with point usually preferable because it allows you to work at greater range and is usually all you need. Additionally you need to be able to get into range, target lock him, and get the point / scram applied … before he manages to GTFO. Small ships lock faster. Covops ships can warp cloaked. Stealth bombers can warp cloaked and have no targeting delay after they drop cloak.

2. The ability to keep on stopping him getting away. If he can power away and outrun you then he may well manage to get outside your point/scram range, and GTFO, before your help arrives. A tackle frigate can be fit with either a 1MN MWD, a 1MN AB, or a 10MN AB. The 1MN MWD makes you go the fastest but uses a lot of CAP, is not always easy to fit, and increases your sig size … making you easier to lock and to hit and take more damage when missiles hit you. The 1MN AB is kinda basic standard and adequate for most purposes. A tackle frig with a 1MN AB will not have its sig size blown-out and will be able to dictate range with the vast majority of mission runner ships. A 10MN AB gives you in-between speed (faster than 1MN AB but not as fast as 1MN MWD) and does not blow-out your sig size, but requires a dedicated ship setup to fit and run. A web will help you dictate range, but forces you to engage at a reduced range and may not be the best use of that midslots.

3. The ability to survive long enough for your DPS support to arrive. You will need to ‘tank’ his efforts long enough for your help to arrive. That can be in the classic shield / armor / structure sense of tanking but, given that you’re most likely to be using a small ship, is more likely to be along the lines of reducing his ability to apply DPS to you. To reduce incoming DPS a small ship usually relies on a combination of:
a. Speed. His turrets have more difficulty tracking and hitting you. Larger drones have trouble keeping up with you. Missiles do less damage because you’re no longer there when they explode.
b. Small sig size. Takes longer for him to lock you. His missiles do less damage when they hit you.
c. Range. If he’s all close-range fit then you may well be able to easily keep him pinned and keep out of range of his DPS – don’t count on it though.
d. Drone-killing weapons. Often drones end up being the deciders against small fast tacklers. A decent flight of warrior IIs can quickly ruin your day, just as a set of EC hornets can let your intended target warp away laughing. He does not need to get a target lock for his drones to be useful, so if you want to keep the tackle you will need to be able to cope with good drones. Your choice here is suitable turrets / missiles or smartbombs. Small faction smartbombs have the range to kill small drones but, as you’d expect, are pretty CAP intensive. ECCM can help protect you from EC drones … but does use a module slot that you might have other better uses for.
e. ‘EW’. Damps can increase the time it takes him to lock you, or reduce his targeting range – prolly not a huge benefit for a solo tackler. Tracking disruptors reduce the ability of his turrets to hit you, either via reducing their optimal range or the speed of their tracking – No effect on missile boats tho. A jammer or two can very nicely keep all of his targeted weapons from hurting you, and even multispec jammers allow you to operate at a reasonable range. Jamming him will not stop aggro-set drones or those specialty missiles (that he is very very unlikely to be carrying).

4. The ability to get your DPS guys on-grid to deliver the damage. Usually this simply entails being fleeted and using whatever comms, but in some cases it can also involve you lighting a cyno / covert cyno so your friends can join the party.

Best ship, and best setup? Of course this is gonna depend on your skills, your budget, how you like to operate, and how your fleet is operating. While interceptors (fast, small, and very fast locking) are the classic tacklers in eve they are not necessarily the best choice for what you seem to be wanting to do.

IMO a stealth bomber is the best ship choice for that. The pros are that a bomber is small, fast, locks very quickly, and can warp and manoeuvre cloaked. The main con is that a bomber has very little classical shield / armor / structure tank and dies very quickly once damage starts being effectively applied. Given the gear you’ll probably want to fit I’d suggest looking at the manticore … even tho it is the slowest and clunkiest of all the bombers. A manti has the CPU to run a bundle of bells-and-whistles devices and an extra midslots to fit them. You can fit a point, a jammer (or two), an AB, a covops cloak, and a smartbomb or two to a manticore. Depending on your skills and how you operate, you may find cap to be a problem, but can swap in a cap booster to keep things running and still have a point / jammer / smart-bombs to ruin his day. In this role I generally fit a cap booster to my manti, because I am usually running either a 1MN MWD or a 10MN AB.

If you’re not just the tackler, but also a major element in the damage to be applied, then you will need to re-prioritize your fittings … altho all the above will remain largely true.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#7 - 2012-06-15 01:44:27 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Labia Nabali wrote:
Hello everyone,

I have some questions concerning tackle. If this belongs in another forum, forgive me and please move it accordingly.

If I have scanned down a mission running ship, what would be more productive in keeping it tackled? Secondly, which fit would help keep me alive longer, assuming the ship I had tackled was a missile boat.


A cloaky dual prop ship with long point

A cloaky mwd fit ship with long point and web

A cloaky ab fit ship with web and scram

A cloaky dual prop ship with scram


If you've scanned him down and he hasn't rabbited, why the cloak?

Also, what type of space? In 0.0, cloaky dictors work wonders.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#8 - 2012-06-15 01:49:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuehnelt
If your target is behind at least one acceleration gate, there's also this to consider:

The normal recloaking delay is 30 seconds. If you drop cloak, or if you are decloaked, then you must wait 30 seconds before you can cloak again. It's not documented (but you can see the stat in EVEmon or like), but covops frig can recloak after only 5 seconds. Stealth Bombers, after 15 seconds.

So a covert ops frigate has two powerful advantages over a SB for getting tackle: first, covops are much less threatening to see on dscan, or on grid. Second, if you do get decloaked at an acceleration gate or in an earlier deadspace pocket, and are seen on long range dscan, your target has very little time in which to spot you again on a short-range scan. If you're perfect about getting to him a bomber's just better (although an Anathema does have that cap bonus...), but if you screw up a covops is more forgiving.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2012-06-15 02:01:42 UTC
The other downside of a covops frigate (non stealth bomber variant) is that they are subject to the targeting delay that applies after you uncloak. IIRC that is at least 3-and-a-bit seconds ... with best covops cloak and best skills ... to get your target lock running. An aligned mission runner, even an aligned hauler, is gonna be gone before your covops gets it pointed. A stealth bomber suffers no such delay.

In my expereince the recloak timer is rarely a problem, even when we messup tackling gate campers I have found myself able to burn away fast and long enough to stay alive and warp or recloak ... that's using a 10MN AB manticore or hound. More often I am messed up by other nearby ships stopping me from being able to recloak.

I do try and fit a point to my scanner frigs, but when I want to be a dedicated sneaky fleet tackler I use a manticore or a hound.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.