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questions about invention, research, and towers in general
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Wingmate
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-06-13 15:20:41 UTC
seemingly by accident, my wallet has been steadily increasing lately, and i find myself with few billion to spare where i didn't have anything before. i'm trying to decide what to do with it. i'm doing a bit of research into invention, moon mining, etc, and am interested in what can gotten out of it.

1. how lucrative is research and invention at this time? i have reasonable industrial skills from datacore mining when it was worth it (roughly 5m in industry and 7m in various worthless science skills), and am fine playing Spreadsheet vs. Spreadsheet to get good numbers. i also live in serpentis null and do a reasonable amount of radar sites to get the invention modifiers. is it worth the time?

2. is it worth it to get a medium tower just for invention, or are towers always multi-purpose gigs? if not, what is a normal tower setup? i've read the guides that i can find, but i don't see any 'recommended' setups anything other than large towers.

3. would it be better to set up the tower up in high-sec or null? i can put one in .5 space for a few factions, but this deprives me of moon mining (at least i think it does).

thanks for the info in advance!

i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
Haulie Berry
#2 - 2012-06-13 15:31:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
Wingmate wrote:
seemingly by accident, my wallet has been steadily increasing lately, and i find myself with few billion to spare where i didn't have anything before. i'm trying to decide what to do with it. i'm doing a bit of research into invention, moon mining, etc, and am interested in what can gotten out of it.

1. how lucrative is research and invention at this time? i have reasonable industrial skills from datacore mining when it was worth it (roughly 5m in industry and 7m in various worthless science skills), and am fine playing Spreadsheet vs. Spreadsheet to get good numbers.


It can be very lucrative. Your mileage will vary.

Quote:

2. is it worth it to get a medium tower just for invention, or are towers always multi-purpose gigs? if not, what is a normal tower setup? i've read the guides that i can find, but i don't see any 'recommended' setups anything other than large towers.


The sole criteria that I use for determining tower size is the number of concurrent lab lines I need. You may have other concerns. For instance, if you plan on plugging in some particularly long jobs, you may want a larger, more defensible POS, whereas I'm always doing short jobs and will just take my POS down in the event of a war dec.

For someone just getting their feet wet, a small caldari tower is a good start. It's not hard to scale up later.

Quote:
3. would it be better to set up the tower up in high-sec or null? i can put one in .5 space for a few factions, but this deprives me of moon mining (at least i think it does).

thanks for the info in advance!


For a research POS, just put it in high sec. Most moon minerals aren't worth the effort.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#3 - 2012-06-13 15:32:26 UTC
Wingmate wrote:
1. how lucrative is research and invention at this time? i have reasonable industrial skills from datacore mining when it was worth it (roughly 5m in industry and 7m in various worthless science skills), and am fine playing Spreadsheet vs. Spreadsheet to get good numbers. i also live in serpentis null and do a reasonable amount of radar sites to get the invention modifiers. is it worth the time?

Yes, but it depends on market conditions, so start making some spreadsheets and doing market research before spending one ISK.

Wingmate wrote:
2. is it worth it to get a medium tower just for invention, or are towers always multi-purpose gigs? if not, what is a normal tower setup? i've read the guides that i can find, but i don't see any 'recommended' setups anything other than large towers.

See above for viability. Personally, I have a large Caldari, and the market sell order price to make a full load of fuel blocks (699 hours of blocks + 699 hours of charters = 29d 3h) was 588,114,337.71 when I last updated my numbers the other day. Medium would be half that, and a small one quarter.

POS setups are not really cookie-cutter when it comes to assembly arrays and labs. It depends on your needs.

Wingmate wrote:
3. would it be better to set up the tower up in high-sec or null? i can put one in .5 space for a few factions, but this deprives me of moon mining (at least i think it does).

Industry in hisec, for the moment, as you don't need any defenses online until wardec'd, so you can dedicate more CPU and power grid to industrial pursuits.
Wingmate
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-06-13 16:46:12 UTC
ah, tau, i've been reading your posts all over this forum for POSes. thanks for all the great posts.

what are the pros and cons for having the POS in a WH? like, setting up in a C1 with good PI and just shipping in the blocks, using it as a relatively safe place to do my stuff. i realize it's a little tougher getting the ice in that case, but it is what it is.

alternatively, i'll be using gallente towers in null near where i live, as i've got ice out here already.

i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
Princess Strawberry
#5 - 2012-06-13 16:55:47 UTC
Wingmate wrote:

1. how lucrative is research and invention at this time? i have reasonable industrial skills from datacore mining when it was worth it (roughly 5m in industry and 7m in various worthless science skills), and am fine playing Spreadsheet vs. Spreadsheet to get good numbers. i also live in serpentis null and do a reasonable amount of radar sites to get the invention modifiers. is it worth the time?

Read my blog if you like for additional detail (link below), if I'm active it's a billion or so a month profits with 2 characters and a POS in high sec. Of course it depends completely what you choose to produce, plenty of things are loss-making so you need to do some spreadsheet work first to be successful IMHO.
Wingmate wrote:

2. is it worth it to get a medium tower just for invention, or are towers always multi-purpose gigs? if not, what is a normal tower setup? i've read the guides that i can find, but i don't see any 'recommended' setups anything other than large towers.

How many characters are you doing invention with? A small POS will provide you with enough slots for a couple of characters and have CPU/grid left for some defences. POS fuel is quite expensive right now by the way.
Wingmate wrote:

3. would it be better to set up the tower up in high-sec or null? i can put one in .5 space for a few factions, but this deprives me of moon mining (at least i think it does).

The logisitics may get tricky. If you're in null, do you have everything you need there? You will still have to haul stuff out of null to sell it at hubs though. Likewise if you have access to more materials in null, you'd have to haul them out to a POS in high sec even though you don't have to then haul about the tech II you produce. The logistics of invention and production are a PITA, this would be my primary consideration if it were me.

http://eveonomics.blogspot.co.uk/
Princess Strawberry
#6 - 2012-06-13 17:02:31 UTC
Wingmate wrote:

what are the pros and cons for having the POS in a WH? like, setting up in a C1 with good PI and just shipping in the blocks, using it as a relatively safe place to do my stuff. i realize it's a little tougher getting the ice in that case, but it is what it is.


Logistics, logistics, logistics... you're not just going to be shipping in and out POS fuel, personally I would say that this seems like more hassle than it's worth. But it does open up some other avenues for you with the different salvage for example, I'd say only set up in a WH if you're going to make use of stuff you can "harvest" there.

http://eveonomics.blogspot.co.uk/
Michael DeMarcus
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2012-06-13 17:24:52 UTC
Wingmate wrote:
seemingly by accident, my wallet has been steadily increasing lately, and i find myself with few billion to spare where i didn't have anything before. i'm trying to decide what to do with it. i'm doing a bit of research into invention, moon mining, etc, and am interested in what can gotten out of it.

1. how lucrative is research and invention at this time? i have reasonable industrial skills from datacore mining when it was worth it (roughly 5m in industry and 7m in various worthless science skills), and am fine playing Spreadsheet vs. Spreadsheet to get good numbers. i also live in serpentis null and do a reasonable amount of radar sites to get the invention modifiers. is it worth the time?

2. is it worth it to get a medium tower just for invention, or are towers always multi-purpose gigs? if not, what is a normal tower setup? i've read the guides that i can find, but i don't see any 'recommended' setups anything other than large towers.

3. would it be better to set up the tower up in high-sec or null? i can put one in .5 space for a few factions, but this deprives me of moon mining (at least i think it does).

thanks for the info in advance!



It can be incredibly lucrative. Just have to be willing to spend more time out of game than in it. -_-

YES! copy slots alone make it worth-while, and if you train an alt, you can have him trained to research BPO's and re-sell them in very little time. This will help pay for POS upkeep.

You can also anchor assembly arrays at the pos that give you a .75 manufacturing time modifier, which can partially eliminate the main bottleneck of t2 module production. :)

Generally, unless you have high-level clearance in a major nullsec alliance, it's safer to just anchor in hisec. Generally, the moons left in nullsec are crap moons who won't even fully pay for pos upkeep, and the benefits of the ease of logistics for anchoring it in hisec is just simply amazing. :)

Hope this was helpful!
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-06-17 11:05:31 UTC
The main question about towers you should be asking yourself , is "Can i get fuel out to the tower on a consistent basis, and can i get produce out to the market"

The logistics are the most important part of the entire equation. There are a variety of moons out in lowsec and null that mining and selling the raw materials of, will pay for the fuel. but getting the fuel to the tower is such a pain that no one is willing to do it.

make sure you personally have the infrastructure to supply and transport whatever you need to for the pos. there are a bunch of two tower setups that can produce a finished reaction and pay for themselves, but they are dependent on finding the right moons. and there are many many setups that are just money pits.

another thing about moon mining is how much time do you have to maintain it? depending on you setup the maintenance can be every 15 hours, (stupidly intensive) or every 74 (pretty easy) , or every 200 (lazy), Actually i think the longest cycle set up i saw was 400 hours, (harvester-silo-silo)

it all depends on what you can support.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-06-17 12:01:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Victoria Sin
Wingmate wrote:
seemingly by accident, my wallet has been steadily increasing lately, and i find myself with few billion to spare where i didn't have anything before. i'm trying to decide what to do with it. i'm doing a bit of research into invention, moon mining, etc, and am interested in what can gotten out of it.

1. how lucrative is research and invention at this time? i have reasonable industrial skills from datacore mining when it was worth it (roughly 5m in industry and 7m in various worthless science skills), and am fine playing Spreadsheet vs. Spreadsheet to get good numbers. i also live in serpentis null and do a reasonable amount of radar sites to get the invention modifiers. is it worth the time?

2. is it worth it to get a medium tower just for invention, or are towers always multi-purpose gigs? if not, what is a normal tower setup? i've read the guides that i can find, but i don't see any 'recommended' setups anything other than large towers.

3. would it be better to set up the tower up in high-sec or null? i can put one in .5 space for a few factions, but this deprives me of moon mining (at least i think it does).

thanks for the info in advance!


1. It depends on what you're inventing. More important than the items is the volume you can shift. That makes a big different to your cashflow. For example, I build an item through invention and can sell it with 100% profit over build and invention cost, but I can only sell around 100 of them a week. I spend time with 0.01isk games to get them sold. I make maybe 100m a week from this one item. Is it worth it? Maybe... depends.

2. I have a medium tower. It's really simple: 2 x advanced lab, 2 x ordinary lab, 1 x component assembly array, 2 x equipment assembly array, 1 x corporate hanger (not needed in station system but useful). That setup can max a single character in research/build slots. No defence necessary. You get wardecced, take it down and go and do something else.

3. High sec is better, if only because for building it's useful to be able to freighter stuff in/out of the tower. Also your tower can't be attacked without a wardec! Not sure about moon mining. Probably not worth the trouble.