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Hardening skills useless for shields?
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Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-06-13 09:40:47 UTC
You know the ones. Gives your ACTIVE hardeners a bonus when NOT ACTIVE to a certain damage type as well as a general boost to said damage type for Passive hardeners.

This works for Armor well enough because their main hardener (Adaptive Nano) is a Passive omni resist and benefits from the Passive part of the skills. However, Shield only has the Adaptive Inv. Field which is Active and as such benefits nada from the skills because why would you not have it active?

Or am I missing something here?

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#2 - 2012-06-13 09:44:29 UTC
Friggs, or may be the passive omni mod they will some day give us shield users to make up for all the shields on BS and up being not so good.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Digg Kula
DK Laboratory
#3 - 2012-06-13 10:18:48 UTC
Shield hardening skills work with passive shield resistance modules and inactive active shield hardening modules.
Therefore an active EM hardener will provide 50% (i think) resistance when active but 15% (assuming max skills) when inactive.
Basically if you get neuted out you are not totally screwed just yet.
Ra Jackson
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-06-13 12:52:16 UTC
Yes, the shield skills are pretty useless unless you use the passive hardeners in special situations like passively tanking a heavily neuting plex or lvl5 mission.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-06-13 12:54:11 UTC
They can be useful depending upon your fit, also check out faction mods

No Worries
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#6 - 2012-06-13 12:56:06 UTC
They are useless, except on the modules that benefit from them.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-06-13 13:00:05 UTC
omnitank tengu.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#8 - 2012-06-13 13:05:50 UTC
They are great for when you get energy neutralized or want to use the passive hardeners...
Bibosikus
Air
#9 - 2012-06-13 13:43:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Bibosikus
Discounting heat, A-Type Res Amps with shield comp skills at V will give you a better resistance than an active T2 hardener, with zero cap usage and 25% less cpu. Not everyone's cup of tea, but very useful for full passive fits and where cpu is tight.

They're easy to train to V when you're mapped to int/mem, and there are basically two per race. There are a lot of other less useful skills to train to V in ~7 days per.

Edit: Same goes for armour comp skills Blink

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#10 - 2012-06-13 13:54:08 UTC
As other people have said, they're not useless, just less useful than armor ones.
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#11 - 2012-06-13 14:58:37 UTC
All Invuln Fields still have a passive resist when inactive. That benefits from such skills as well.
Flakey Foont
#12 - 2012-06-13 16:01:52 UTC
For where you are aiming Tor, leave them until last.
Kalli Brixzat
#13 - 2012-06-13 16:27:50 UTC
There are 2 benefits for these skills - though they should not be trained until other tank skills are maxed or near-maxed.

1. When neuted dry, the extra few percent of resist can save you.
2. There are some fairly sexy T3 fits using faction resist amps.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-06-13 16:44:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Daniel Plain wrote:
omnitank tengu.



Many other Caldari ships can easily be passive omnitanked because:

Very often have +5% shield resists per level

Have enough mid slots

Can use DCU II

Thing is that majority of players not training those passive skills can't see the real benefits. Since you speak about Tengu, 2 passive resists EM+Explo puts your Tengu over 75% resist on the weakest one and over 80% the second weakest one and over 84% for the 2 highest ones, but how many are unable to figure it out and are still using faction/dead space invulns and just look like awesome space loot piñatas?

So @OP

Train them at least at 4 is NEVER a waste of time and will open to you new fitting options/better survivability.

brb
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-06-13 16:49:02 UTC
Flakey Foont wrote:
For where you are aiming Tor, leave them until last.


Yeah, I don't plan on prioritizing them. I just thought they'd be as good as their Armour counterparts. Until I trained them. Roll

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-06-13 16:57:47 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Flakey Foont wrote:
For where you are aiming Tor, leave them until last.


Yeah, I don't plan on prioritizing them. I just thought they'd be as good as their Armour counterparts. Until I trained them. Roll


They're almost as good than armor counterparts+you benefit from shields recharge that profit from that resist increase.
Plus those A-B-C type are by far less expensive than armor resist platings.

At the end of the day you'll use an invuln, however when you get neut you can laugh at your buddy using only hardeners and not training passive resists because he will have no tank once he's neut, you keep at least 50% of your tank without cap because you've trained passive skills that apply to your passive resists and your invuln when not active.

Of course you will not need them every time but spend 2 weeks of training for this is absolutely not a waste of time

brb
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-06-13 17:03:03 UTC
Yeah well I got lots and lots of core shield skills to train, because I armor tanked my previous ship(s).

So. Yeah.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Bossy Lady
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#18 - 2012-06-13 17:19:04 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
You know the ones. Gives your ACTIVE hardeners a bonus when NOT ACTIVE to a certain damage type as well as a general boost to said damage type for Passive hardeners.

This works for Armor well enough because their main hardener (Adaptive Nano) is a Passive omni resist and benefits from the Passive part of the skills. However, Shield only has the Adaptive Inv. Field which is Active and as such benefits nada from the skills because why would you not have it active?

Or am I missing something here?


Pretty much.

Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#19 - 2012-06-13 19:12:25 UTC
I have been in some neuting plex's, where I kill the neuts right at my last 1% of shield. Hardners have been off for awhile.. As I bleed into armor, I get enough cap back to pump my first shield boost. This happens to me quite a lot actually, which is a possibly a player confidence issue, (I do it on purpose) but also, it may be CCP design. That is, perfect skills can work in certain situations.

That said, I think the skills have limited application. My well skilled second account wil probably never train them to V.
If you were going to be a specced Caldari specific pilot, then yes. Tengu PvE, yes.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#20 - 2012-06-13 21:00:14 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
I have been in some neuting plex's, where I kill the neuts right at my last 1% of shield. Hardners have been off for awhile.. As I bleed into armor, I get enough cap back to pump my first shield boost. This happens to me quite a lot actually, which is a possibly a player confidence issue, (I do it on purpose) but also, it may be CCP design. That is, perfect skills can work in certain situations.

That said, I think the skills have limited application. My well skilled second account wil probably never train them to V.
If you were going to be a specced Caldari specific pilot, then yes. Tengu PvE, yes.


Couldn't agree more. Shield comps have made a world of difference in how I run very specific plexes. And it isn't just the difference between warping out once for cap but often multiple times.
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