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Siege Mode for Phoenix
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superweapon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-06-13 00:54:25 UTC
So, I wanted to build a Dreadnought and as a Caldari pilot, I wanted a Caldari Dreadnought. Well, at least until I found out how bad the Phoenix is. I know that most dreadnought are useless versus sub cap and then they are not in siege mode. The problem is Capital Torpedoes and Capital Cruise missiles have a very low explosion velocity. Back to Crucible Siege mod were reworked and damage output was increased along with tracking speed. However the reduction to explosion velocity remained.

Why does Siege mode only penalize missile users, and not turrets?

Can you please remove that imbalance in inferno 1.1.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-06-13 02:47:04 UTC
Errr you do know that capital missiles suck siege or no siege. Unless your attacking a planet.

******** missile logic ftw ... according to EVE I can easily withstand a 8megaton nuclear blast because afterall my signature is very small compared to the fireball, and if im for example on a bike ... id take hardly no damage whatsoever.
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#3 - 2012-06-13 08:58:21 UTC
Sorry you can't hit a guy on a bicycle with a catapult, hear they work on castle walls just fine tho.


TL;DR
dreads do about as well Vs. sub caps and Friggs do Vs. POS's

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#4 - 2012-06-13 09:01:36 UTC
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
Sorry you can't hit a guy on a bicycle with a catapult, hear they work on castle walls just fine tho.


I agree that projectiles should be nerfed into the ground, but missiles have guidance systems. Real-world missiles can hit a guy on a bicycle just fine.
Ashimat
Clandestine Services
#5 - 2012-06-13 09:11:35 UTC
Cedo Nulli wrote:
Errr you do know that capital missiles suck siege or no siege. Unless your attacking a planet.

...wich is what you going to be doing more often then not in a Dread, or at least a POS or something with large enough sig-radius and low enough speed (zero) for the missile-inbalance you talk about to not matter.

No, the Phoenix don't work against anything but structures, but on the other hand you have the option of selecting dmg-type.

I see it as having a different role then the Moros/Rev. There is no denying that those are more versatile. If you are to shoot caps, don't fly the Phoenix, simple.

Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-06-13 09:27:51 UTC
If you were doing a space walk in a space suit you'd be immune to any form of explosion.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#7 - 2012-06-13 09:34:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Rel'k Bloodlor
But Phoenix's shure do make a mockery of hardners on POS's as you always hit the hole.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
superweapon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-06-13 11:27:38 UTC
Yes, I know that capital missiles sucks but, the problem is that the siege module give an Explosion velocity penal on -60%, while doesn't penalize turret using dreadnoughts.

And I want to know why.
superweapon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-06-13 11:39:59 UTC
Ashimat wrote:

No, the Phoenix don't work against anything but structures, but on the other hand you have the option of selecting dmg-type.

however you lose 25% damage if you not firing kinetic. Meaning you lose around 1k dps if you pick non-kinetic damage. So yes if a Pos have a huge hole in resistance you can expose that, however the Naglfar, can do the same thing on it's projectile guns.
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
#10 - 2012-06-13 11:41:55 UTC
because capital turrets tracking was nerfed. It got by 50% worse sig resolution permanently. So giving it another tracking hit in siege mode would make it too harsh.
superweapon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-06-13 11:58:17 UTC
Shpenat wrote:
because capital turrets tracking was nerfed. It got by 50% worse sig resolution permanently. So giving it another tracking hit in siege mode would make it too harsh.


well. That nerf in Sig resolution also applies to the phoenix, the sig resolution on missiles is also 2000m, that's the tracking speed that's the problem. And it's that the siege module penalize for missiles and not turrets.
Veronica Kerrigan
Surgically Constructed L Feminist
#12 - 2012-06-13 16:15:40 UTC
Cedo Nulli wrote:
Errr you do know that capital missiles suck siege or no siege. Unless your attacking a planet.

******** missile logic ftw ... according to EVE I can easily withstand a 8megaton nuclear blast because afterall my signature is very small compared to the fireball, and if im for example on a bike ... id take hardly no damage whatsoever.


You are in space, therefore only the part of the explosion that directly hits you would deal damage. The rest is projected off into the void. Damage on earth is caused by a shock wave, which is caused by the compression of air, and makes them hit every thing in the blast radius with the full force. Space has no air, therefore only the radiation and projected particles that actually hit you have any effect.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-06-13 19:47:05 UTC
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
But Phoenix's shure do make a mockery of hardners on POS's as you always hit the hole.


Most times the hole isn't big enough to give up the kinetic damage bonus.
Mira Lynne
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-06-14 02:44:26 UTC
So wait - siege mode still has missile penalties, but no Turret Penalties?
How did I know Roll
On the Plus side, i know of a few people that now Owe me ISK.

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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#15 - 2012-06-14 04:06:48 UTC
Mira Lynne wrote:
So wait - siege mode still has missile penalties, but no Turret Penalties?
How did I know Roll
On the Plus side, i know of a few people that now Owe me ISK.


Technically that's correct. What is missed here is that capital guns now have the same penalties applied whether you're sieged or not. So they act exactly how they did before when comparing siege pre-nerf and siege post-nerf, they just do the same out of siege now.

So... Yeah. Big conspiracy against missiles, right?
superweapon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-06-14 09:41:39 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Mira Lynne wrote:
So wait - siege mode still has missile penalties, but no Turret Penalties?
How did I know Roll
On the Plus side, i know of a few people that now Owe me ISK.


Technically that's correct. What is missed here is that capital guns now have the same penalties applied whether you're sieged or not. So they act exactly how they did before when comparing siege pre-nerf and siege post-nerf, they just do the same out of siege now.

So... Yeah. Big conspiracy against missiles, right?


So What you are saying that the phoenix, can go equal footing versus a turret using dreadnought?
And you need more than 12m/sec to speed tank a dreadnought?
Garnoo
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2012-06-14 11:48:24 UTC
is this another newbie topic "i have no idea why this shipclass exist"?

People are going to try to ruin your day. Get together with others, ruin their day back -  EvE
superweapon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-06-14 11:59:33 UTC
Garnoo wrote:
is this another newbie topic "i have no idea why this shipclass exist"?


No dreads is there to shoot caps and Poses, however if you can speedtank a phoenix in a carrier the hole shoot caps, falls a bit to the ground