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The weak, and the strong
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#101 - 2012-06-13 03:07:59 UTC
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
Sadly, I would wager that the strongest among us are the miners. How many of us could sit here and do what they do? It's mind-numbing, and rather tedious.

You've never sat on a titan for an hour with a bored Boat waiting for enemies that never show up, have you...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#102 - 2012-06-13 03:11:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
Sadly, I would wager that the strongest among us are the miners. How many of us could sit here and do what they do? It's mind-numbing, and rather tedious.

You've never sat on a titan for an hour with a bored Boat waiting for enemies that never show up, have you...

Nor traveled back home with Villy leading a large fleet full of disonnecting CFC members after he's clearly come down...er...abruptly gotten tired.

Ah-lign...

...

chirp...

...

"Oh jesus we have 21 jumps to go!"

[edit: sorry villy i love your alphabet style!]

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Tesal
#103 - 2012-06-13 04:01:57 UTC
I'm on the side of the hisec miners on this one. Something like 4k hulks have been destroyed. It is without a doubt more dangerous to be a miner in hisec than in nullsec. At least in nullsec you have the time to dock up at a POS if you see a neut in local, you only have 4 seconds in hisec and even then you might mistake the incoming ship for a returning industrial if you aren't on top of things every second. This is simply begging for a nerf like a buff to the Hulk and Mack or an even more powerful concord. I heard the same screaching when people were flying HACs at 10km/sec, how they deserved to fly these ships and their prey deserved to die because they were stupid, it was unbalanced and the balance was corrected. They cried and moaned that they would quit the game. Every time something gets overpowered it gets nerfed. Hisec ganking of Hulks deserves a nerf.

The real problem here is that nullsec alliances seem to need to generate content for their players. They should have better things to do with their time and isk than grief miners in hisec. Stuff like this never happened when people were fighting wars in nullsec. Now its one giant blue mob versus a few scattered alliances. That too deserves to be nerfed. This is blatant evidence that 0.0 is broken and giant flows of passive moon isk are making alliances fat beyond what they know what to spend their money on. Don't be suprised if ring mining destroys moon mining as an isk making operation. If that happens you will have the ultimate irony take place, the people griefing miners will have to turn to carebears and renters as a source of income to fund their pvp operations.
Torneach
Doomheim
#104 - 2012-06-13 04:03:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Torneach
Tesal wrote:
I'm on the side of the hisec miners on this one. Something like 4k hulks have been destroyed. It is without a doubt more dangerous to be a miner in hisec than in nullsec. At least in nullsec you have the time to dock up at a POS if you see a neut in local, you only have 4 seconds in hisec and even then you might mistake the incoming ship for a returning industrial if you aren't on top of things every second. This is simply begging for a nerf like a buff to the Hulk and Mack or an even more powerful concord. I heard the same screaching when people were flying HACs at 10km/sec, how they deserved to fly these ships and their prey deserved to die because they were stupid, it was unbalanced and the balance was corrected. They cried and moaned that they would quit the game. Every time something gets overpowered it gets nerfed. Hisec ganking of Hulks deserves a nerf.

The real problem here is that nullsec alliances seem to need to generate content for their players. They should have better things to do with their time and isk than grief miners in hisec. Stuff like this never happened when people were fighting wars in nullsec. Now its one giant blue mob versus a few scattered alliances. That too deserves to be nerfed. This is blatant evidence that 0.0 is broken and giant flows of passive moon isk are making alliances fat beyond what they know what to spend their money on. Don't be suprised if ring mining destroys moon mining as an isk making operation. If that happens you will have the ultimate irony take place, the people griefing miners will have to turn to carebears and renters as a source of income to fund their pvp operations.


Nowhere in EVE is ever truly safe. Never has been and never should be.

EDIT: Also, people have a chance to hide in nullsec because the players have established a way for intelligence to be gathered so their members can be more secure. This is not necessarily handed to them, but worked for.

Well, kind of, local isn't really 'working for intelligence', but the intelligence network I suppose requires effort to establish.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#105 - 2012-06-13 04:11:30 UTC
Tesal wrote:
I'm on the side of the hisec miners on this one. Something like 4k hulks have been destroyed. It is without a doubt more dangerous to be a miner in hisec than in nullsec.

Agreed. Let's make all of EVE nullsec so that these poor miners can enjoy the safety of 0.0
Ned Black
Driders
#106 - 2012-06-13 06:19:15 UTC
Torneach wrote:

Nowhere in EVE is ever truly safe. Never has been and never should be.

EDIT: Also, people have a chance to hide in nullsec because the players have established a way for intelligence to be gathered so their members can be more secure. This is not necessarily handed to them, but worked for.

Well, kind of, local isn't really 'working for intelligence', but the intelligence network I suppose requires effort to establish.


Now that is a load of crock that you nullsec people like to spew.

If there were no local then most of the time those intelligence networks you give so much credit would be a LOT harder to maintain simply because you would either have to have ships keeping track of them or you would have to have people report constantly... and not even then would it insure any real safety to the people in a specific system.

Today however you use local in null as your life line. As soon as anyone pops in, no matter if its by wormhole, cyno, gate or by any other means possible or impossible local will always let you know INSTANTLY... there is absolutely no way in heaven or hell that I can hide myself in nullsec if I want to come gank you guys. You will always be able to track me by the use of local. You dont have to have eyes on the gate to see if I jump throug, a quick glance on your local chat will tell you if its time to get the hell out of dodge or if you can happlily continue your PvE activities.

Every single time I have jumped through a WH to a crowded nullsec system, where none of those "intelligence networks" would have been worth a damn you nullbears still run off to your safe POSes and stations like roaches from a light.

When mining in "safe" space is about 10000 times more dangerous than mining it in "lawless" space the ratio is way off if you ask me... but if they remove local that ratio would most likely change quite drastically and suddenly it would not be as much fun when its your money making ship being butt raped in your home system...

Suddenly all that talk about information networks to keep safe in null would fall flat on its face... because if local went away you really would have to have scouts sitting on the gates to keep you "safe"... and not even that would keep you safe at all times... which is as it should be in nullsec.
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#107 - 2012-06-13 06:27:03 UTC
I think it's strange that covert ops ship pilots are visible in Local.

How is an operation covert if everyone in the system knows you're there?

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Jhango Fett
X-Zest Voyage
X - Z E S T
#108 - 2012-06-13 06:33:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jhango Fett
Quote:
YouTube video


That video was made back in 2004 I believe.

General principle is the same, yet people still buy EVE accounts and play for years never knowing?

2012 and General forums is still full of threads about people getting ganked and wanting the game changed, it never ends.
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#109 - 2012-06-13 06:55:16 UTC
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:
not weak just dumb


How ?

Tal




March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2012-06-13 07:02:41 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
Sadly, I would wager that the strongest among us are the miners. How many of us could sit here and do what they do? It's mind-numbing, and rather tedious.

You've never sat on a titan for an hour with a bored Boat waiting for enemies that never show up, have you...

done it many times.
+ 2 hours CTA with only destroyed 2-3 SBUs. And/or territorial claim unit. HURRAY! Killmail! What? And never shown enemies.....

And after this i still can't force myself to get into belt for mining or into anomaly for ratting... This is simply TOOO BORING Shocked

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#111 - 2012-06-13 07:13:41 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
Sadly, I would wager that the strongest among us are the miners. How many of us could sit here and do what they do? It's mind-numbing, and rather tedious.

You've never sat on a titan for an hour with a bored Boat waiting for enemies that never show up, have you...



I've spent more hours than I would like to think, sitting around in gangs and fleets waiting for a fight or the other side to get numbers and turn up, which 7 times out of 10 they didn't, although when they did, fun was had and almost made up for it.

Tal

Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2012-06-13 08:51:24 UTC
Not so much about strength or weakness, more about the will to survive. With the will to survive comes the ability to thrive in Eve.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#113 - 2012-06-13 08:52:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Typical plug from me as its another "ganker/bear" (used for effect) debate. ;)

[salespitch]Whilst I wouldn't expect it to be the "holy grail" to the end of all forum warriors or the ongoing debate needed with CCP constantly evolving the game I have to say the correction and proper introduction of an effective Bounty Hunting system might go a long way to putting the debate IG as opposed to the forums when a working mechanic can be used to help address the balance to these particular issues.[/salespitch]

Quote:
For PvP and like to encourage more of it? Or perhaps you are an industrialist with a specific focus in game not directly concerned with PvP skilling to be effective at your role and therefore ineffective to apply teeth in response to criminal activities?

Want to validate a potential Career path in ≡v≡ with new income potential that is ideally designed as simply a transferance of ISK from one pilot to another?

Actually like situations where ships shoot back and "really" improve your KB resume as opposed to simply suprising soft industrial targets?

You agree that pilots should adapt to challenging situations in ≡v≡ where acceptance of risk is an everyday seperator of those getting ahead on the curve, criminals included, to ensure the game evolves instead of being kept dumbed down?

Or simply want to make ≡v≡ less boring with adding more fun and challenging gameplay elements?

Would like to see CCP finally correct a long standing broken mechanic in the game which at best provides an exploit for the effected criminal party to profit further from and yet has been left in the game still?


Support: Bounty Hunting for CSM7.

CCP Design panel wrote:

"It's going to be awesome."

"It's absolutley on the list of things to do."

"We have a spaceships game, but you can't be han solo or boba fett, that's not clever."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_pLi1J9YrkM#t=1199s

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
RAP ACTION HERO
#114 - 2012-06-13 09:05:13 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:
not weak just dumb


How ?

Tal





the fact that they insist on reducing their ehp with their fitting choices.

vitoc erryday
RAP ACTION HERO
#115 - 2012-06-13 09:09:36 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
MasterEnt wrote:
Please explain to me how using a combat ship to attack a non-combat ship is strong?


Somali skiffs vs bulk tankers

U-boats vs merchant ships

Slave ships vs a royal navy 5th rate

Spanish gold ships vs gallions

Trade hulks vs triremes

Piracy is not a new thing here. Its history goes back for as long as merchant ships have existed. Why would EVE be any different?

You conveniently forgot to include what happened to those engaging in Piracy activities. Granted there will always be a small amount of Piracy happening in isolated areas but history has shown time and time again when it becomes a large scale activity affecting the welfare of citizens, the Authorities will hunt them down, kill them and or force them into hiding.

Seems it's always the same MO with players who advocate and try to justify the massive increase of Suicide Ganking in this game. Always trying to 'Rationalize away' opposing statements using broad 'Generalizations' presented with half truth 'Examples'.






yeah like somalian pirates are no longer a problem, the UN and etc forces have ceased all their activities right?

vitoc erryday
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#116 - 2012-06-13 09:13:53 UTC
Tesal wrote:
I'm on the side of the hisec miners on this one. Something like 4k hulks have been destroyed. It is without a doubt more dangerous to be a miner in hisec than in nullsec. At least in nullsec you have the time to dock up at a POS if you see a neut in local, you only have 4 seconds in hisec and even then you might mistake the incoming ship for a returning industrial if you aren't on top of things every second. This is simply begging for a nerf like a buff to the Hulk and Mack or an even more powerful concord. I heard the same screaching when people were flying HACs at 10km/sec, how they deserved to fly these ships and their prey deserved to die because they were stupid, it was unbalanced and the balance was corrected. They cried and moaned that they would quit the game. Every time something gets overpowered it gets nerfed. Hisec ganking of Hulks deserves a nerf.

The real problem here is that nullsec alliances seem to need to generate content for their players. They should have better things to do with their time and isk than grief miners in hisec. Stuff like this never happened when people were fighting wars in nullsec. Now its one giant blue mob versus a few scattered alliances. That too deserves to be nerfed. This is blatant evidence that 0.0 is broken and giant flows of passive moon isk are making alliances fat beyond what they know what to spend their money on. Don't be suprised if ring mining destroys moon mining as an isk making operation. If that happens you will have the ultimate irony take place, the people griefing miners will have to turn to carebears and renters as a source of income to fund their pvp operations.


Out of those 4k miners 99% had no or near to no tank.
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#117 - 2012-06-13 09:48:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Tesal wrote:
"Ganking concerns for mining"


Out of those 4k miners 99% had no or near to no tank.


Just be aware that just trying to use bling wont really help you.

Better advice

However, adaptation to a point whilst neccesary for the mining contingent needs to stop when people start prescribing "how" you should play, but the application of a tank is pretty obvious in improving your survivability.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
RAP ACTION HERO
#118 - 2012-06-13 10:03:47 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Tesal wrote:
"Ganking concerns for mining"


Out of those 4k miners 99% had no or near to no tank.


Just be aware that just trying to use bling wont really help you.

Better advice

However, adaptation to a point whilst neccesary for the mining contingent needs to stop when people start prescribing "how" you should play, but the application of a tank is pretty obvious in improving your survivability.


cargo rigs, tech ii don't make it better lol

vitoc erryday
Yolanta Geezenstack
GWA Corp
#119 - 2012-06-13 10:22:57 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
So it is with EVE, this huge Electro-Darwinian Experiment, the strong survive, the weak perish


Don't rely on Darwin when you say that the ones who stay are "the strong". He said: "It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”

One of the oldest living species are some tiny marine mollusk - not exactly looking strong, but ... uh... gibberish.
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#120 - 2012-06-13 10:38:54 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
Not so much about strength or weakness, more about the will to survive. With the will to survive comes the ability to thrive in Eve.


Its a game ... ffs